eBike Battery Causes Trailer Fire

[colby]

Not many details; however, I saw a posting on Facebook where there was a trailer fire this past weekend at Sandbanks Provincial Park that was supposedly started from an eBike battery (based on a witness from the next campsite). A quick search I did resulted in a number of articles on eBike batteries exploding and catching fire. Just a word of caution as more and more people are moving towards eBikes, adding smoke detectors and additional fire extinguishers may be beneficial.

[craigav]

On a similar note, I just read that Amazon has had at least a half dozen warehouse fires that turned out to be due to the solar setup on the rooftops. I did a search to see if any RV fires have been caused by solar setups on the rooftops and found quite a few results. Most reports are stated to be due to the wiring. In any case, my suggestion is to check your solar setup and wiring if you have that, and as Colby mentioned, keep an eye out for your E-bike batteries if you have them. I would suggest for e-bikes to determine if you can remove the batteries and store them in a something protective first and then into a fire resistant metal box... Oh, and perhaps an extra and larger fire extinguisher just in case. ~CA

[Bill Johnson]

Just like my golf cart battery, I only charge it away from the RV

[Grumpy]

Problem with "E" bikes, Hoverboards etc they are Lithium and those are dangerous in my opinion. So what they are using in "E" cars and trucks?

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Problem with "E" bikes, Hoverboards etc they are Lithium and those are dangerous in my opinion. So what they are using in "E" cars and trucks?

While they all are somewhat dangerous, Lithium ION batteries are much more dangerous as they pack more energy density and likely what an E-Bike uses and also what at least some (mine for example) small high power jump starters use. LifePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries such as most Lithium RV deep cycle storage batteries are, have a much better safety record.

I am not sure what EV's use, I suspect Lithium ION. Whatever they are, I have seen quite a few videos of how they can burn down an EV very violently, quickly, and are almost impossible to put out. In fact, I never saw a video where anyone was able to put out an EV battery fire. What is always left is a melted pile of metal, plastic, and who knows what else. ~CA

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by craigav

I am not sure what EV's use, I suspect Lithium ION. Whatever they are, I have seen quite a few videos of how they can burn down an EV very violently, quickly, and are almost impossible to put out. In fact, I never saw a video where anyone was able to put out an EV battery fire. What is always left is a melted pile of metal, plastic, and who knows what else. ~CA

Side bar comment. Saw a story yesterday that all the suppliers are saying we don't have the ability to mine the lithium needed to make the batteries that an all elec fleet would require.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Problem with "E" bikes, Hoverboards etc they are Lithium and those are dangerous in my opinion. So what they are using in "E" cars and trucks?

They just started using solid state lithium batteries that don't catch fire, last for 30 years, and have 50 Percent more power than regular lithium

[colby]

Originally Posted by craigav

I am not sure what EV's use, I suspect Lithium ION. Whatever they are, I have seen quite a few videos of how they can burn down an EV very violently, quickly, and are almost impossible to put out. In fact, I never saw a video where anyone was able to put out an EV battery fire. What is always left is a melted pile of metal, plastic, and who knows what else. ~CA

And why the combination of Lithium ION and RVs are potentially dangerous... A car takes a bit to burn, a hot fire from a burning Lithium ION battery will take down a trailer (which is basically a tinderbox) in no time at all...

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by colby

And why the combination of Lithium ION and RVs are potentially dangerous... A car takes a bit to burn, a hot fire from a burning Lithium ION battery will take down a trailer (which is basically a tinderbox) in no time at all...

The new batteries for cars Can't burn, but it will take years before safer batteries come to RV's

[SloPoke]

A good read about Battery Safety history...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-i...fire_incidents

[CAG]

The new batteries for cars Can't burn, but it will take years before safer batteries come to RV's

Where did you come up with that? Even flooded batteries burn at one time or another under the right circumstances and the lithium batteries of today are overall not stable in the long run. The newer are better but still Tesla and others have fires. Those fires are not easy to put out. They burn your house down if it starts in the garage.



We do not have the trace minerals to produce these batteries so we are dependent on countries that we really should avoid.



A college professor said one time, "We go go war for only three things. Land, Choke points, and trace minerals". Which one is going to put us into WWIII?

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by CAG

Where did you come up with that? Even flooded batteries burn at one time or another under the right circumstances and the lithium batteries of today are overall not stable in the long run. The newer are better but still Tesla and others have fires. Those fires are not easy to put out. They burn your house down if it starts in the garage.



We do not have the trace minerals to produce these batteries so we are dependent on countries that we really should avoid.



A college professor said one time, "We go go war for only three things. Land, Choke points, and trace minerals". Which one is going to put us into WWIII?

The new batteries are solid state lithium, no liquid to start a fire it air touches it. Toyota has the first one but all the major manufacturers are working on them

[Route 66 Traveler]

I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but the statement that the newer lithium batteries contain no liquid was just too much.

The batteries that I use to fly my RC aircraft are lithium. The batteries I use today are the same as they were 15 years ago and the have never contained any liquid. They are extreemly dangerous if not handled properly, are greatly affected by high and low ambient temperatures, and most dangerous and subject to fire when they are being charged.

The Hoverboard craze with their lithium batteries have burned down a lot of houses, most from improperly charging the batteries. The new e-Bikes are now experiencing the same problem. They should never be charged in doors, especially inside an RV.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but the statement that the newer lithium batteries contain no liquid was just too much.

The batteries that I use to fly my RC aircraft are lithium. The batteries I use today are the same as they were 15 years ago and the have never contained any liquid. They are extreemly dangerous if not handled properly, are greatly affected by high and low ambient temperatures, and most dangerous and subject to fire when they are being charged.

The Hoverboard craze with their lithium batteries have burned down a lot of houses, most from improperly charging the batteries. The new e-Bikes are now experiencing the same problem. They should never be charged in doors, especially inside an RV.

After my first LiFePo battery fire for a Blade CPx RC heli... I invested in a old Ammo can to charge all of my LiPo batteries. In the middle of the garage floor with nothing near it for 4' in any direction, directly on the concrete. No fires since, but I don't even think of charging them swollen anymore.

[ARoamer]

Lots of Different Lithium battery chemistries. I also have Lithium Polymer RC batteries and charge them in a steel bucket with lid.

Here's a interesting video of 3 lithium types and their failure modes. The lithium polymer fail quite spectacularly while the Lithium Iron Phosphate (RV chemistry, LFP) are not as dangerous.-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzt9RZ0FQyM

[dynarider]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

The new batteries for cars Can't burn, but it will take years before safer batteries come to RV's

Where did you get that info?

[hankstone]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but the statement that the newer lithium batteries contain no liquid was just too much.

The batteries that I use to fly my RC aircraft are lithium. The batteries I use today are the same as they were 15 years ago and the have never contained any liquid. They are extreemly dangerous if not handled properly, are greatly affected by high and low ambient temperatures, and most dangerous and subject to fire when they are being charged.

The Hoverboard craze with their lithium batteries have burned down a lot of houses, most from improperly charging the batteries. The new e-Bikes are now experiencing the same problem. They should never be charged in doors, especially inside an RV.

RC batteries (I used to fly heli's) are Lipoly... lithium polymer and believe that they are somewhat different that the other lithium batteries. For sure the RC stuff is highly combustible... just poke a hole and instant fire. Also overcharge or let the voltage drop too much and poof, instant fire.

[TxLoser]

I don’t know if the bike batteries are removable, but if f so, pull them when traveling and store in a fire resistant battery bag. My guess is someone sells a battery bag for this purpose. If it starts smoking, toss that thing as far as you can. At work we keep a big battery bag on the plane that can fit a laptop in case of an issue. Lipo fire on a plane could end up news worthy.

I race rc cars and my batteries scare me. I’ve seen a lipo fire and it’s not pretty. The smoke on its own is crazy. When not in use, I’ll keep mine in an open ammo can(so it’s not a bomb) in my garage on the floor away from everything. This is after discharging to a storage level. With a bicycle keeping them at a storage voltage would be tough. I’ve got a drone, and those batteries have a smart feature that discharges to storage level from within over time. I don’t know how. PFM I guess.

[prestonwattsjr]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

The new batteries for cars Can't burn, but it will take years before safer batteries come to RV's

Generally speaking the house batteries in RVs are either lead-acid (flooded, sealed, gel, or AGM) or LiFePO4, any of which are about as safe as they come (with the minor caveat that FLAs must be vented to the outside). Most electric car batteries are standard Li-Ion which, while not nearly as bad as the LiPo packs used in phones and the RC world, are still quite volatile when something goes wrong. Some actually DO use LiPo packs (prismatic cells) instead which is somewhat frightening. The solid state lithium cells that you're talking about are not currently in any electric cars, and from what I'm currently seeing won't be until at least 2025. Tesla switched to LiFePO4 on their standard-range models last year, and some other manufacturers are planning to follow suit in the next couple of years, which might be part of the confusion. TL;DR you're almost exactly backwards here.

Originally Posted by SloPoke

After my first LiFePo battery fire for a Blade CPx RC heli... I invested in a old Ammo can to charge all of my LiPo batteries. In the middle of the garage floor with nothing near it for 4' in any direction, directly on the concrete. No fires since, but I don't even think of charging them swollen anymore.

That RC helicopter uses a LiPo battery, not a LiFePO4. These are different chemistries on opposite ends of the safety spectrum.

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but the statement that the newer lithium batteries contain no liquid was just too much.

The batteries that I use to fly my RC aircraft are lithium. The batteries I use today are the same as they were 15 years ago and the have never contained any liquid. [...]

The electrolyte in Li-Ion, LiPo, LiFePO4 and virtually any other battery are all liquid, but generally contained in some sort of matrix (such as paper, fiberglass, gel or carbon powder) rather than just acid in a box like flooded lead acids are. That's part of why the solid state electrolytes Bill is fixated on are such a big deal.

[TWP723]

#combustionforlife