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Old 09-16-2015, 06:56 PM   #21
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But john, specifically, have you seen any failures? How is the performance of the lippert letting you down?

Other than the weights being lighter in the new suppliers frames, have you seen any specific failures caused by the lighter frame?
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:49 PM   #22
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Hadn't seen a cracked frame in person, but geez, been following a ton of threads from a while back and a lot more recently. Not specifically on this forum. I'm on several others. Pictures and documentation from them is enough for me. Either way, the common denominator is Lippert, whether it be keystone, open range, Forest river etc etc. Just because I haven't seen one in person, or experienced my own frame failure, doesn't mean the problem isn't there. A few frame failures is a few too many. A quick search on this forum and google and it's crazy. The only thing Jayco has going for them with their lippert TT frames, is having the A-frame the way they do. To me, stronger than the typical undermount design.

But, more specifically, yes I've looked at the welds on my frame, and a lot of them wouldn't pass any kind of test, therefore I watch them close. Biggest reason I did "fix" the welds on the receiver hitch mounts. Didn't trust them, not enough penetration to me, and not enough of them to trust the receiver for it's intended purpose.
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:29 AM   #23
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Also workers are typically doing the same task on each RV, hence they get good at what they do.
Some modern manufacturing methods say this does not work because the worker gets tired and bored doing the same repititious job. Some "cross-train" workers so they can master several tasks and move around, making life (and their jobs) much more interesting thereby creating fewer mistakes. Putting that aside, in my previous life when our company had a 30% rise in business in a short period of time, mistakes were common. Mostly due to all the new hires we had in order to keep up with production. Then, there was pressure from top to bottom because we didn't want the competition to gain any orders we had just because we couldn't keep up with production. My experience, for whatever reason, has been that when you have a huge sustained increase in business in a short amount of time, there will be problems. Problems that were not there before the increase.
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:35 AM   #24
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Seems like a easy search would turn up that Lippert supplies most all of the RV frames in the industry. It makes sense that any failures would be on them.

Not saying quality control could not be a problem.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:18 AM   #25
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Some modern manufacturing methods say this does not work because the worker gets tired and bored doing the same repititious job. Some "cross-train" workers so they can master several tasks and move around, making life (and their jobs) much more interesting thereby creating fewer mistakes. Putting that aside, in my previous life when our company had a 30% rise in business in a short period of time, mistakes were common. Mostly due to all the new hires we had in order to keep up with production. Then, there was pressure from top to bottom because we didn't want the competition to gain any orders we had just because we couldn't keep up with production. My experience, for whatever reason, has been that when you have a huge sustained increase in business in a short amount of time, there will be problems. Problems that were not there before the increase.
In my company we had the exact opposite experience. As with the auto industry, a person does one job and learns it well. The job doesn't have to get boring or repetitious. In the RV industry they are not standing at a work station putting a bolt in a hole... they may be installing cabinetry, but it's all the cabinetry in the RV, or wiring the electric, but all the electric. It would be no different than building a home.. you have carpenters, electricians, plumbers etc, all doing one job, well. Do they get bored? Doubt it, I never see the electrician doing plumbing, or the carpenter doing electric.

I could easily train an employee (even temporary) to do a task, in my case building cabinets. Be it cutting frames, assembly or sanding it was rather easy to scale up.

The RV industry does a good job, I was impressed at the plants I visited. Could quality be better, of course. But the RV industry puts out a good product at a good price. Could they build the ultimate RV yep.. sure could.. but... can't do high end at a low price.

It's why we all do mods... to make them "our own" it's part of the fun of owning an RV. Over the winter I plan on adding solid surface counters and table tops. Most likely remake drawers so I can use 100% of available space, removing clothes rod replacing with shelves. Today I'm putting a shut off switch in, also moving the quick disconnect LP gas connection to an area more centrally located to how we use it.

It's easy to slam companies because of what we perceive as short comings, but, overall the industry does a great job of giving us, the consumers, what we want at a price we are willing to pay.

Reminds me of customers that would come in and ask me to build one of a kind products and wonder why it is more than the mass produced items. You can have quality, customization or price, but can't have all three. It would be nice if Jayco or others would give us more options, but, it comes at a price, both for the consumer and the factory. It would be like a production home builder allowing a consumer to make unlimited changes, can't be done at a price point consumers are willing to pay. You need to go to a custom builder to achieve that level of quality and customization.

I'm happy with my Jayco, and after my mods will be 100% happy with how it works for us.

JMHO...
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:04 AM   #26
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We're certainly newbies and are not savvy RVers by any stretch, even though in our 3 trips this year we've managed to build a decent rhythm. So I really have no basis of comparison with previous models. But we couldn't be happier so far with our new 264BHW SLX. It's held up superbly to our 16 camping nights. Yes, it's a so-called "stick and tin" trailer, so there are a few cosmetic details this carpenter's son finds a bit lax. But at the same time, it's not a house! It's not meant for full-timing in, and in fact to do so clearly would violate our warranty. So as a RECREATIONAL vehicle, it's extremely pleasing to us, and I can't imagine it could be much better, or more comfortable, all things considered.
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:42 AM   #27
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It also seems the higher end units are having the most reported issues here, I suppose due to their complexity?
Also because is where the most design changes have taken place, it's a new learning curve for the production line.
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