2021 Alante 29F (Amperage Issues))

[Esqui]

Hello all,

I am wondering if any of you'll have an issue with tripping the surge protector due to "over current" errors (using a Watchdog surge protector)? My motorhome is 30amps. It has two A/Cs. All works great because each A/C draws about 7-8 amps. The problem starts when the electric water heater is on because it draws about 11-12 amps. If both A/C are on and someone uses the hot water, it kicks the heater on and my surge protector immediately shuts everything down. On this last trip, I remedied it by just turning one of the A/Cs off during bath times, but that seems like it's just a quick fix rather than a permanant solution. Does anyone out there have a similar issue? Any solutions/ suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Esqui

[Foretm]

Esqui,


I don't have the same model you have, I have the autoformer 30amp unit. I also have a Progressive Industries surge protector. Neither of these has an over-current protection features, just surge. While the overcurrent protection may seem like a nice option, it will cause exactly what you're seeing. The issue is the energy management system (EMS) in the coach needs a bit of time to read the amerage draw above 30 and then shed the loads necessary to keep the draw below 30 amp. The Watchdog is sensing it and immediately shutting it down not allowing your EMS to do its job.


My recommendation is to contact Hughes, explain the situation and see if there is a way to set a delay for that overcurrent protection or disable it and if not see if they would be willing to swap your device with the one that does not have the over current protection, just the monitoring. Bear in mind that non-epo device has a good deal of monitoring, but not protection. It will tell you there's an open neutral, but not disconnect as a result for example. So reveiw the options before you swap.



I have watched my amperage draw hit 45 for a fraction of a second then load shed back down to below 30. This momentary spike (<1 second) is not an issue for the wiring or the breaker, so this device has now become the most sensitive link in the amperage chain and is acting like a breaker but doing it instantly when a breaker will take longer based on the amperage draw. Sometimes these cool electronics work against each other, that's what you're seeing here. The EMS will protect the coach from overcurrent by shedding loads as will the breakers internally and at the pedestal.


- Mike

[Esqui]

Originally Posted by Foretm

Esqui,


I don't have the same model you have, I have the autoformer 30amp unit. I also have a Progressive Industries surge protector. Neither of these has an over-current protection features, just surge. While the overcurrent protection may seem like a nice option, it will cause exactly what you're seeing. The issue is the energy management system (EMS) in the coach needs a bit of time to read the amerage draw above 30 and then shed the loads necessary to keep the draw below 30 amp. The Watchdog is sensing it and immediately shutting it down not allowing your EMS to do its job.


My recommendation is to contact Hughes, explain the situation and see if there is a way to set a delay for that overcurrent protection or disable it and if not see if they would be willing to swap your device with the one that does not have the over current protection, just the monitoring. Bear in mind that non-epo device has a good deal of monitoring, but not protection. It will tell you there's an open neutral, but not disconnect as a result for example. So reveiw the options before you swap.



I have watched my amperage draw hit 45 for a fraction of a second then load shed back down to below 30. This momentary spike (<1 second) is not an issue for the wiring or the breaker, so this device has now become the most sensitive link in the amperage chain and is acting like a breaker but doing it instantly when a breaker will take longer based on the amperage draw. Sometimes these cool electronics work against each other, that's what you're seeing here. The EMS will protect the coach from overcurrent by shedding loads as will the breakers internally and at the pedestal.


- Mike

Hey Mike,

Thanks for all the info. It was very helpful and I now understand what's going on. I am going to give Hughes a call today and see what they suggest. Thanks again....I really appreciate it!

Esqui

[Ryan B]

I have a 2021 Alante 29F. Currently on a trip using both AC's and electric water heater. I just use a Surge Guard surge protector, but haven't seen any issues

Look forward to seeing what Hughes has to say.

[Esqui]

UPDATE...

Spoke with Hughes, and there is nothing that can be done to delay the shut off when the Watchdog detects an overcurrent error. So I called Jayco and they confirmed exactly what Mike said. The Watchdog is picking up the overcurrent before the coach's EMS, or Power Control System, as Jayco calls it, has an opportunity to distribute the loads (over 30 amp) and protect the coach from damage. So...the Watchdog works, I just have no need for it. I will now buy a surge protector in order to identify any issues at the connectuon point of the campgrounds.

Esqui

[Foretm]

Originally Posted by Esqui

Hey Mike,

Thanks for all the info. It was very helpful and I now understand what's going on. I am going to give Hughes a call today and see what they suggest. Thanks again....I really appreciate it!

Esqui

My pleasure...

[Foretm]

Originally Posted by Esqui

UPDATE...
So...the Watchdog works, I just have no need for it. I will now buy a surge protector in order to identify any issues at the connectuon point of the campgrounds.
Esqui

I would call Hughes back and see if they would allow you to trade it in for a different model. Worse case, sell the watchdog and get something else, may lose a bit of money in that scenario. In my setup, I have both a hughes autoformer and a Progressive Industries surge protector.

Progressive - https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c
Hughes - https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...er-with-surge/

I bought the EMS-HW30C when I bought the coach and then later on was at a campsite with very low voltage, and bought the autoformer to correct that. There's some redundancy/extra cost having both, admittedly, but both do different jobs. The EMS will not allow electricity to flow to the coach if you have too low voltage, open neutral, missing ground, surge, etc.... The Autoformer will indicate those items and protect against surge, but the big thing is the voltage boosting. The main thing is neither of them cutout due to over current.

My configuration is as follows, picture below:
Pedestal to a 30amp receptacle in my wiring bay
Autoformer plugs to receptacle
Progressive EMS plugs to autoformer
Coach is hard wired to Progressive EMS

I can bypass either of the devices by unplugging or plugging as needed, or through the Progressive EMS bypass switch which forces a bypass. It also allows me to use an RV extension cord and bypass my wired cord if needed, which came in handy when my plug got fouled up by a bad receptacle not long ago. I was able to replace the plug while the coach was running off the extension cord which I keep with me. The autoformer was plugged direct to extension cord and cord to pedestal.

Bottom line is, there's no right or wrong way, only what you want and how you want it...

Picture disclaimer.... the sewer hose you see is a brand new spare, never used..

- Mike

[Esqui]

Originally Posted by Foretm

I would call Hughes back and see if they would allow you to trade it in for a different model. Worse case, sell the watchdog and get something else, may lose a bit of money in that scenario. In my setup, I have both a hughes autoformer and a Progressive Industries surge protector.

Progressive - https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c
Hughes - https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...er-with-surge/

I bought the EMS-HW30C when I bought the coach and then later on was at a campsite with very low voltage, and bought the autoformer to correct that. There's some redundancy/extra cost having both, admittedly, but both do different jobs. The EMS will not allow electricity to flow to the coach if you have too low voltage, open neutral, missing ground, surge, etc.... The Autoformer will indicate those items and protect against surge, but the big thing is the voltage boosting. The main thing is neither of them cutout due to over current.

My configuration is as follows, picture below:
Pedestal to a 30amp receptacle in my wiring bay
Autoformer plugs to receptacle
Progressive EMS plugs to autoformer
Coach is hard wired to Progressive EMS

I can bypass either of the devices by unplugging or plugging as needed, or through the Progressive EMS bypass switch which forces a bypass. It also allows me to use an RV extension cord and bypass my wired cord if needed, which came in handy when my plug got fouled up by a bad receptacle not long ago. I was able to replace the plug while the coach was running off the extension cord which I keep with me. The autoformer was plugged direct to extension cord and cord to pedestal.

Bottom line is, there's no right or wrong way, only what you want and how you want it...

Picture disclaimer.... the sewer hose you see is a brand new spare, never used..

- Mike

Thanks again for all your insight. I really appreciate it.

I have owned a motorhome for only 3 years and I learn something new on every trip...mainly, because, big or small, something always happens. RV life, am I right?...lol

[Foretm]

absolutely.... being able to troubleshoot and repair yourself is huge and this site helps alot too...