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Old 06-29-2022, 12:48 PM   #21
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You are all forgetting one very important thing. What is the voltage at the pedestal with no load and what is the voltage at the line side of the main breaker under load? Without knowing true voltages all other electrical calculations are meaningless. Ohms law rules here.

On a side note the breakers shown in the photo are tandem single pole breakers manufactured by Eaton. In my professional opinion they are crap. Yes they pass UL testing but they are the cheapest breakers on the market. We in the electrical industry have a term called "nuisance trips" which happens with inexpensive breakers and GFCI's. I'm not saying that is what occurring but with out knowing actual voltage at the line side of the main breaker we can't begin to diagnose what is happening in an internet forum.
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Old 06-29-2022, 01:31 PM   #22
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You are all forgetting one very important thing. What is the voltage at the pedestal with no load and what is the voltage at the line side of the main breaker under load? Without knowing true voltages all other electrical calculations are meaningless. Ohms law rules here.

On a side note the breakers shown in the photo are tandem single pole breakers manufactured by Eaton. In my professional opinion they are crap. Yes they pass UL testing but they are the cheapest breakers on the market. We in the electrical industry have a term called "nuisance trips" which happens with inexpensive breakers and GFCI's. I'm not saying that is what occurring but with out knowing actual voltage at the line side of the main breaker we can't begin to diagnose what is happening in an internet forum.
I didn't go into detail, however I did mention the difference that voltage has in regards to something like this. "At 120v the 30a circuit breaker can support a continuous load of 2880w, however at 115v the breaker can only support a continuous load of 2760w. " The reason I didn't go into detail is that the current load of the A/C, Water Heater, and converter, fridge, etc... already exceeded 80% of a 30a breaker's rating enough where more precise measurements likely would not reveal anything new, (based on my quick wattage estimate based on the mfgr specs which are not necessarily meaningless, but certainly at best are the specs as tested under the mfgrs test conditions).

I certainly agree with what you are saying though, not too mention the difference between a resistance load (water heater element) vs an inductive load (A/C) and how lower voltages impact each type of load in regards to current (amperage). But... too much detail doesn't always help with the higher level understandings.

In any case, I am not a big fan of using a tandem breaker either whenever possible, especially for a main breaker as the other breaker (in tandem) could be carrying enough current to heat the 30a main a bit more than it would otherwise heat itself, which would reduce the 30a breakers break point a bit lower than otherwise may be expected (compared to an isolated 30a main breaker in a panel or even a single spaced 30a breaker next to a single spaced 15a breaker in a panel with more area to dissipate heat). My thoughts are that the tandem breaker vs single breaker likely wouldn't matter in this case though as the current flow is likely way above 80% anyway (taking all loads into consideration), but I agree that it certainly could make a difference if the total RV amperage draw is at the threshold of the 80% (24a) or slightly less.

For sure though, an accurate amp\voltage meter could (should) be a friend for most all RV'rs... imo.

...and not too mention, if the EMS is supposed to turn off (shed) the water heater (and a/c's) when approaching the EMS's amperage setpoint that it is designed to stay under, and if it isn't doing so (as Foretm mentioned more than once), then certainly that should be checked into and corrected... or manually turn off the electric water heater for now until the EMS shedding issue can be corrected. ~CA
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Old 06-29-2022, 01:56 PM   #23
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I agree that the comparison in difference between the two is impossible except in theorhetical context, my only point in comparing them is that the difference *should* be negligible. I will concede they are different and how different is impossible without a meter and more testing.

My main concern is the EMS is not working or the AC was wired wrong at install. Best for the OP to keep the water heater on gas for now and check the wiring closely when able to make sure its not cross-wired and verify the EMS is functioning. Without it, a 30a coach with 2 ACs will pop the breaker regularly and render it all but useless.
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Old 06-29-2022, 02:03 PM   #24
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I agree that the comparison in difference between the two is impossible except in theorhetical context, my only point in comparing them is that the difference *should* be negligible. I will concede they are different and how different is impossible without a meter and more testing.

My main concern is the EMS is not working or the AC was wired wrong at install. Best for the OP to keep the water heater on gas for now and check the wiring closely when able to make sure its not cross-wired and verify the EMS is functioning. Without it, a 30a coach with 2 ACs will pop the breaker regularly and render it all but useless.
We are both on the same page regarding the EMS. My high level thought is that the A/C isn't likely to be wired wrong, based on what you mentioned that the water heater is the first item to be shedded if needed, which apparently isn't occurring. Perhaps an EMS misconfiguration or the WH isn't being controlled by the EMS after all. ~CA
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Old 06-29-2022, 02:37 PM   #25
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I replaced one of my 11BTU ACs with the 13.5 power saver. The initial amp is a little higher, but the run time amp pull is the same as the 11k. I can't say I feels like it cools better, but that's another story.

I haven't tried running an AC and electric water heater at the same time for years. Its just a few amp draw from 30 when both are running and intermittently a breaker would trip when the coach was new. Then I fried the water heater board when one of the times a breaker tripped. Since then I always turn off the AC or slide them to a temp where they cut off before I use anything high draw like water heater, microwave, hair dryer, etc. I don't need a brownout messing anything else up.

Usually I always use gas for the WH, but if i need quick recovery (long day, everyone tired and dirty) I turn both on after the coach has cooled down so I can keep the AC off for a while.
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Old 06-29-2022, 02:56 PM   #26
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My 2018 Greyhawk has 2ó11,000 btu a/cís and the power mgmt. system and when you run both acís and the electric water heater it will pull 24-27 amps when outside temps are above 90 degrees. What we do in this case is turn off electric water heater and turn on propane burner for the water heater. When it is 90 and above outside ,it takes very little propane to heat water. This Skinny Ranger chooses to be cool with A/C running wide open over hot waterÖ..When temps cool down at night time approx 80 degrees you will pull Less ampsÖ.Pulling 24-27 Amps continuously for a period of time will overheat your breaker and trip itÖÖAsk me how I knowÖ..Yes, I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida Ö..
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Old 06-29-2022, 03:12 PM   #27
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After reading through these posts it begs the question why do they still produce 30 amp RV's given the power requirements of today's vehicles. Shedding and adding power loads so that you can avoid tripping the 30 amp main breaker is ridiculous.

My 30 foot travel trailer came with 50 amp service, which I shopped for when looking to buy, and I NEVER have to worry about power issues, except when the only power available is 30 amps

Buying a big Class A or C RV with only 30 amp service is a huge mistake in my opinion. The build cost to the manufacturer is minimal, the cost to the buyer is a bunch of headaches!
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Old 06-29-2022, 03:37 PM   #28
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After reading through these posts it begs the question why do they still produce 30 amp RV's given the power requirements of today's vehicles. Shedding and adding power loads so that you can avoid tripping the 30 amp main breaker is ridiculous.

My 30 foot travel trailer came with 50 amp service, which I shopped for when looking to buy, and I NEVER have to worry about power issues, except when the only power available is 30 amps

Buying a big Class A or C RV with only 30 amp service is a huge mistake in my opinion. The build cost to the manufacturer is minimal, the cost to the buyer is a bunch of headaches!
Amen to that, I'm in a 32' Alante w/ 30 amp. If you run the microwave you have to turn off the one AC which is already woefully inadequate for this many cubic feet. So between 2pm and 10pm in the S. you're not about to stop the AC for even a minute. I'm mulling over options for a second AC but it would have been exponentially easier had they just gone ahead and run 50 amp.
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Old 06-29-2022, 04:12 PM   #29
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I think most of agree on what, how, could go wrong with OP's coach. From an electrician's stand point the first thing I have ever done to trouble shoot a tripped breaker is grab a digital multi meter and an ammeter or I just go to my Fluke 335 which is a true RMS clamp on ammeter and volt meter. All RV'ers should carry at least a digital multimeter just as a boater will carry an oar. It amazes me the amount of electrical issues that get posted on forums and the various Facebook sites and I'll start with basic questions and the person has no meter and can't answer them. We all know what exists in theory and from design standpoints but with electrical problems there is a methodology to troubleshooting and it is nearly impossible to do over the internet with out knowing basic facts about the situation is at the time of the issue.
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Old 07-01-2022, 05:58 AM   #30
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After reading through these posts it begs the question why do they still produce 30 amp RV's given the power requirements of today's vehicles. Shedding and adding power loads so that you can avoid tripping the 30 amp main breaker is ridiculous.

My 30 foot travel trailer came with 50 amp service, which I shopped for when looking to buy, and I NEVER have to worry about power issues, except when the only power available is 30 amps

Buying a big Class A or C RV with only 30 amp service is a huge mistake in my opinion. The build cost to the manufacturer is minimal, the cost to the buyer is a bunch of headaches!
I have a 2019 Entegra Vision 31V which is the same thing as the Jayco Alante 31V. comes off the same line, just gets badged differently in the end, and a couple other minor differences in decor, etc. Starting in 2020, the Entegra Vision line went to 50amp with a 15K up front and a 13.5K in the rear and deleted the power management system, whereas the Jayco Alante stayed with the 30amp and power management with dual 11K ACs.

My 2019 has the power management system and dual 11k ACs and over the 3.5 years i've owned it, i've not had a single issue with tripping a breaker or other power issues. We camp almost exclusively at state parks and there are still some parks who just have 30amp power, so for us it made sense and we're happy with the syatem and the coach.

I will concede that most parks are updating and upgrading and this is not as much an issue as it used to be, but we didn't go out looking for a 30amp coach, it just so happened to be that way and we loved everything else about it. I also agree the diference in costs is negligible at manufacture time. Given the option of all else the same I would take a 50amp over the 30amp, but its what I have and it works for me without issue.

I wish the OP best of luck resolving the issue.
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Old 07-01-2022, 06:05 AM   #31
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This Skinny Ranger chooses to be cool with A/C running wide open over hot waterÖ..

Completely agree on this one... We're volunteering at Bahia Honda and its so hot here, we rarely use the hot water side when showering. The cold water is so warm, its all you need since its above ground in most cases and pumped in from the mainland, it has plenty of time to get warm on its way down. I can relate to hot, 99% of my camping is in Florida and most of it in the Keys or at one of the beach parks thanks to the DW. I would prefer a 50amp coach with dual 15Ks, but we have what we have and it works.
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Old 07-02-2022, 05:13 PM   #32
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Loose connections at the new A/C or at the breaker panel is a possibility.
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Old 07-04-2022, 07:50 AM   #33
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I didnít mean to raise a ruckus here. I think the few extra amps pushed it over the top. I didnít do anything to the panel. I just moved the box from the old unit to the new unit and plugged in the new unit. Thereís no air fryer, curling iron or anything of that nature. I have five kids so tvís are going, most of the time all three. One thing I donít understand is why is there a 15 amp leg on the main breaker. I put the water heater on propane and after that we didnít have any problems with it tripping a breaker. I donít understand all these figures that you all have come up with here. As I said I have five kids so I donít have a lot of time to research unless I stay up all night. I knew if I went to the forum I would get some answers. I appreciate all that you do.
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Old 07-11-2022, 12:38 PM   #34
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I didnít mean to cause a ruckus here. I think the few extra amps just pushed it over the top. I was actually surprised when we got the coach that it was a 30 amp. Thought we would have more issues. Before it didnít matter what was running together we didnít have any issues. Now I run the water heater on propane and so far no issues unless my 3 year old tries to help and turns off the main power. I just donít understand why the main breaker has a 15 amp leg on it, if someone could answer that it would be appreciated. I got on here because I knew I would get some answers and you came through as usual and itís appreciated.
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Old 07-11-2022, 01:20 PM   #35
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I didnít mean to cause a ruckus here. I think the few extra amps just pushed it over the top. I was actually surprised when we got the coach that it was a 30 amp. Thought we would have more issues. Before it didnít matter what was running together we didnít have any issues. Now I run the water heater on propane and so far no issues unless my 3 year old tries to help and turns off the main power. I just donít understand why the main breaker has a 15 amp leg on it, if someone could answer that it would be appreciated. I got on here because I knew I would get some answers and you came through as usual and itís appreciated.
The reason is simply that the panel that holds the breakers doesn't have enough room for all of the breakers that are needed. So they use "tandem" breakers which is simply stated as a design to be able to have twice as many breakers than the panel would otherwise allow for. Nothing special or specific to the 30a main. ~CA
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:55 PM   #36
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The coach is 30amp and the main breaker inside is the one thatís tripping. It has a Power Control System Panel that shows how much ampís is being supplied to the coach and if the wh, frig, back ac and the front ac are being powered and I assume that is the energy management system. It didnít manage very well because it shut the whole coach down. I put the water heater on propane so itís been working that way. I will try to add a picture of the main breaker, Iím not real savvy about electricity but I think itís kind of strange that the breaker would have a 30 and 15 amp together. I appreciate the help weíre trying to have a little vacation at Jellystone park in Burleson Tx and itís pretty warm here.

From first hand experience and hardship. you need to manage your amps don't rely on the energy management system in the coach. It will work but that should be your last resort. You only have 30 amps to work with so don't stack high amp equipment I.E A/C, (the starting amps of an A/C are much higher than running amps) electric water heater , microwave, coffee maker. You can operate more than one but watch your amps on the panel. Never run a hair dryer with a high amp device already on. It's not complicated to stay out of overload trouble, but you have to be mindful of it. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature. The alternative if you blast away on the amps is to melt your panel. Don't ask me how I know. Since your breaker won't hold it's probably already damaged. This particular breaker has both thermal and magnetic protection. They are sacrificial and once gone they are toast. Replacing it isn't difficult, finding one is, and they can be expensive. since mine failed i keep a backup handy.
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