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Old 01-26-2022, 07:40 PM   #21
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You may be surprised to know that nuclear power contributes 19.7% of all power used on the US grid. In addition to that, wind and hydro add another 15.7%, and "renewables" including solar are up to 19.8% for a grand total of over 50% produced by other than fossil fuel. Hope your mind is actually as open for facts as you claim.

Having said that, I'm not so sure EV RV's make a lot of sense since refueling (recharging?) infrastructure just doesn't exist for them yet. But times they are achangin'...

Whoa there big fella, Hydro has been around for a long time and as such is not part of the renewables energy mix you tout. The renewables you speak of are way costlier than the current hydrocarbon generation. Renewables have their place but not as a replacement for central station generation to supply your home, and by the way your Tesla. Renewables are non store-able and non dispatch-able, both deficiencies are the fatal flaw as a reliable generation source.. Ask anyone in Texas who were sold renewables as the answer to their energy needs, then froze to death.
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Old 01-26-2022, 08:01 PM   #22
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I was just reading an article in Car and Driver. Winnebago /Ford Transit has a class b electric motorhome. They say it can go 125 miles on a charge. This means it might get 100 miles. It can run all appliances off it's own battery. Can you imagine going 1,000 miles or more, that's a lot of stops. I wonder does it have a generator, if you boondock do you wake up with a dead battery and how do you refill the battery in the middle of nowhere. Wonder what other people think

It takes TIME to progress from horse drawn buggies to gas fired automobiles, steam engine trains to maglev trains, and diesel subs to nuclear. Were not there yet, but its coming, in time.
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Old 01-26-2022, 08:04 PM   #23
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They say once solid state batteries get here you can add a zero to lithium ranges. Then people will be forgetting to plug them in all together! Toyota will be first out of the gate with one just next year I think. Probably wont be a full pull but it should at least have 1000 mile range. They also charge quicker, weigh a fraction and dont catch on fire.
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Old 01-27-2022, 09:42 AM   #24
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Whoa there big fella, Hydro has been around for a long time and as such is not part of the renewables energy mix you tout. The renewables you speak of are way costlier than the current hydrocarbon generation. Renewables have their place but not as a replacement for central station generation to supply your home, and by the way your Tesla. Renewables are non store-able and non dispatch-able, both deficiencies are the fatal flaw as a reliable generation source.. Ask anyone in Texas who were sold renewables as the answer to their energy needs, then froze to death.
Good post. The reason I didn't respond to his condescending post to me is this isn't a forum to get into a "war of words".
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:33 PM   #25
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Any number of negatives have surfaced on face when it comes to the EV 'revolution', but only two tell me what will keep them on the fringe for the next two or three generations: one....at 8 to 10 years the batteries are done, cooked and have to be replaced. One Tesla owner just lit his car on fire to destroy it since it was cheaper than the $22,000 replacement cost of batteries. A crate motor installed is half that. two.....no military anywhere on this planet will use EV for much more than officer transport on base. Now think of EV as Betamax and internal combustion as VHS.
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:03 PM   #26
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Good post. The reason I didn't respond to his condescending post to me is this isn't a forum to get into a "war of words".

Sorry, having worked in the electric utility industry (for the company with the highest % of renewable generation in the US) for over 40 years, I just couldn't let it go. Now back to the important stuff, RV stories.
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Old 01-27-2022, 02:01 PM   #27
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Sorry, having worked in the electric utility industry (for the company with the highest % of renewable generation in the US) for over 40 years, I just couldn't let it go. Now back to the important stuff, RV stories.
Nothing to be sorry for, I was referring to RKHengst's post to me. I agree entirely with your post.
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Old 01-27-2022, 02:25 PM   #28
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I'm sure everyone that owned a horse laughed at Henry Ford too.

I'm all for solar, lithium batteries and new technology for future generations. I sure wish I could stay around to see the changes that will happen in the next 50-years.
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Old 01-27-2022, 09:39 PM   #29
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Regardless of how power is made, the big grid all the way down to the service drops to your home are not able to support the power demands. Itll take decades, plural, to get it where it needs to be to support all of it. Many campgrounds I've been to have a hard enough time powering our rigs as it is. How in the world will they power charge the EV's that roll them down the road?? In the mean time we can all sit back and forget polluting the air with our campfires and watch the romantic glow of the overhead lines in the sky.

I remember reading back in 2010 that by 2020 ALL landlines will be gone. Obsolete. I'll be out of work and kicking a can down the road. Fiber optic will be handling everything. Guess what, I still got a job, still fixing that old crap copper that runs your internet and is still powering landlines, including that one little old lady we have that's paying $7/mo for her grandfathered party line. Yes, that's right, I said party line. For those out there that dont know what a party line is, I'll put it to ya in today's terms you can understand; yourself and everyone in your immediate family have a cell phone. When a call comes in, EVERYONES cell phone rings. No such thing as caller ID. You know who the call is for by the ringtone. Each person has their own distinct ringtone. Best part is EVERYONE can listen in on that conversation, AND nobody can make or get a call until that call conversation is over and hung up. So here we are 12 years later, they can't make fiber fast enough for the demands, regardless of the high cost it is and add today's problem of getting people to go to work to manufacture it and get it installed in the outside world, its gonna take time alright. A LONG time and power is no different. Its gonna take a LOT longer time for that.
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Old 01-28-2022, 11:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RKHengst View Post
You may be surprised to know that nuclear power contributes 19.7% of all power used on the US grid. In addition to that, wind and hydro add another 15.7%, and "renewables" including solar are up to 19.8% for a grand total of over 50% produced by other than fossil fuel. Hope your mind is actually as open for facts as you claim.

Having said that, I'm not so sure EV RV's make a lot of sense since refueling (recharging?) infrastructure just doesn't exist for them yet. But times they are achangin'...
I'm not sure where you got those numbers from but here are the actuals...

I suggest getting actual numbers not made up ones....

Electricity generation
In 2020, net generation of electricity from utility-scale generators in the United States was about 4,009 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about 4 trillion kWh). EIA estimates that an additional 41.7 billion kWh (or about 0.04 trillion kWh) were generated with small-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) systems.

In 2020, about 60% of U.S. utility-scale electricity generation was produced from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), about 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 20% was from renewable energy sources.

The percentage shares of utility-scale electricity generation by major energy sources in 2020 were
natural gas
40%
coal
19%
nuclear
20%
renewables (total)
20%
nonhydroelectric renewables
13%
hydroelectric
7%
petroleum and other
1%
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by curver900 View Post
I'm not sure where you got those numbers from but here are the actuals...

I suggest getting actual numbers not made up ones....

Electricity generation
In 2020, net generation of electricity from utility-scale generators in the United States was about 4,009 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about 4 trillion kWh). EIA estimates that an additional 41.7 billion kWh (or about 0.04 trillion kWh) were generated with small-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) systems.

In 2020, about 60% of U.S. utility-scale electricity generation was produced from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), about 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 20% was from renewable energy sources.

The percentage shares of utility-scale electricity generation by major energy sources in 2020 were
natural gas
40%
coal
19%
nuclear
20%
renewables (total)
20%
nonhydroelectric renewables
13%
hydroelectric
7%
petroleum and other
1%
In Illinois it's
58% Nuclear
18% Coal
14% Natural gas
10% Renewables
Renewables are just starting to go up the last few years and coal will be gone in a few
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:56 PM   #32
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EV's are a very simple "energy" problem, that I don't think that we have totally grasped.

It takes the same amount of "energy" to propel anything that weighs X-lbs down the road at 65MPH.

So, if it takes 1 Joule of energy to move a 4000 lb car 100 miles at 65MPH, that "energy" had to come from something, whether that's fuel, electricity, whatever.

Yes, it's true that internal combustion engines are not as "efficient" with that power as battery vehicles, but that equation remains the same. It might take 1.7 Joules of fuel energy to move that 4000 lb car 100 miles at 65 and 1.2 Joules of electricity energy to move that 4000 lb car 100 miles at 65. From SOMEWHERE, there had to at least 1 Joule of energy "consumed" to move that car.

As we turn off internal combustion engine, we have to turn on electrical generation to make up that difference. We are currently consuming 30 trillion kWh of energy EVERY day (the amount of energy stored in a barrel of oil). According to the earlier post, we only produced 4 trillion kWh in 2020. There is a LOT more energy than we have anywhere near the ability to generate at the moment. We need to be on an exponential curve to get where we are wanting to get to as well.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be working on EV's and moving in that direction, but we are a LONG ways from getting where we need to be with power generation and power transmission in this county, and that's before we even start the conversation about whether or not we should be using renewable energy...
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Old 01-28-2022, 02:29 PM   #33
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If someone stops to think about the push for electric vehicles, they are ALL recharged by coal or natural gas generating plants. Nuclear basically is a very minor player any more. Solar and wind power isn't even in the picture as far as generating power for our Country. I wish it was, but I saw what happened in Texas last year. I was working there and saw the brownouts and complete grid failure. Basically, any environmental "green" vehicle is powered by fossil fuel, at least at the present time.

Anyone can show or teach me otherwise, my mind is always open for other views.

I agree with 'some' of what you have mentioned in this thread. (overall)

NOTE: the Texas grid failure during Snowpocalypse 2021 was due to temperature, not wind turbines "freezing up". it was a once in 30 year storm. there are going to be casualties. Note: plenty of wind turbines run in places like ... you guessed it, North Dakota, Minnesota, and uhhh Canada, Germany, Finland. do you think those machines "freeze up" when ambient temperatures get to +15*F? no, they don't.... the machines are built for their environment. Texas saw a multi day freeze that shut down the natural gas plants. the wind turbines need power in to send power out.

If you can't tell, I plant utility scale wind turbines around the world as my profession.

We need ALL energy. coal, oil, gas, GEO, solar, wind, BIO and so on. you should never put all your energy eggs in one basket. diversify that portfolio!

Nextly, the grid in the USA is due for an overhaul. plenty of new transmission projects going in, very few large scale end user upfit projects underway.


So, to say in caps 'ALL' electric vehicles are charged by coal and gas is ludicrous. they might be in YOUR neighborhood, but not ALL.

Back to the OP, electric RV's WILL have their place in history. Think about other lands where driving 100 miles puts you in a different culture. There are many spots in Europe where 100 mile commute puts you in 3 different countries....

the technology is coming and I fear you may be left behind! have a look at solar powered catamarans. these boats can literally sit out at anchor and never plug in. they have things like full galleys, A/C's and 2 electric motors for propulsion. they just need some sunshine to recharge! ( backup genny on board incase of emergency or high latitude trips)

not sure if I should mash the submit reply button on this one. haha.

Yooper, let me know if any of this is now acceptable to you or not. thanks! Hopefully everyone can get out and get camping! we are currently stationed in south Texas planting (50) 4.8mw wind turbines to power about 72,000 thousand homes... just a drop in the bucket... in the 130,000,000 homes that are in the US. You have to start somewhere!

EDIT: if you can get 4-8 hours of earth moving time out of a little skid steer in this tiny package. why an electric RV only has 100 mile range is beyond me.
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Old 01-28-2022, 02:46 PM   #34
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I agree with 'some' of what you have mentioned in this thread. (overall)

NOTE: the Texas grid failure during Snowpocalypse 2021 was due to temperature, not wind turbines "freezing up". it was a once in 30 year storm. there are going to be casualties. Note: plenty of wind turbines run in places like ... you guessed it, North Dakota, Minnesota, and uhhh Canada, Germany, Finland. do you think those machines "freeze up" when ambient temperatures get to +15*F? no, they don't.... the machines are built for their environment. Texas saw a multi day freeze that shut down the natural gas plants. the wind turbines need power in to send power out.

If you can't tell, I plant utility scale wind turbines around the world as my profession.

We need ALL energy. coal, oil, gas, GEO, solar, wind, BIO and so on. you should never put all your energy eggs in one basket. diversify that portfolio!

Nextly, the grid in the USA is due for an overhaul. plenty of new transmission projects going in, very few large scale end user upfit projects underway.


So, to say in caps 'ALL' electric vehicles are charged by coal and gas is ludicrous. they might be in YOUR neighborhood, but not ALL.

Back to the OP, electric RV's WILL have their place in history. Think about other lands where driving 100 miles puts you in a different culture. There are many spots in Europe where 100 mile commute puts you in 3 different countries....

the technology is coming and I fear you may be left behind! have a look at solar powered catamarans. these boats can literally sit out at anchor and never plug in. they have things like full galleys, A/C's and 2 electric motors for propulsion. they just need some sunshine to recharge! ( backup genny on board incase of emergency or high latitude trips)

not sure if I should mash the submit reply button on this one. haha.

Yooper, let me know if any of this is now acceptable to you or not. thanks! Hopefully everyone can get out and get camping! we are currently stationed in south Texas planting (50) 4.8mw wind turbines to power about 72,000 thousand homes... just a drop in the bucket... in the 130,000,000 homes that are in the US. You have to start somewhere!

EDIT: if you can get 4-8 hours of earth moving time out of a little skid steer in this tiny package. why an electric RV only has 100 mile range is beyond me.
I always said why don't boats have transmissions now why don't all electric cars have transmissions so the motors don't spin as fast
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Old 01-28-2022, 02:50 PM   #35
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I'm sure everyone that owned a horse laughed at Henry Ford too.

I'm all for solar, lithium batteries and new technology for future generations. I sure wish I could stay around to see the changes that will happen in the next 50-years.
The horses didn't!
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Old 01-28-2022, 03:35 PM   #36
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I agree with 'some' of what you have mentioned in this thread. (overall)


Yooper, let me know if any of this is now acceptable to you or not. thanks! Hopefully everyone can get out and get camping!
I do read everyone's posts on this subject. Sure your post is acceptable, why wouldn't it be?
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Old 01-28-2022, 03:54 PM   #37
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Hydro was listed separately and would not be part of "renewables". My point was simply to respond to a post that claimed nuclear generation to be negligible, and solar and wind was represented as "not in the picture". The fact is that neither is true.
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Old 01-30-2022, 01:36 PM   #38
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This isn't an RV per SE, but we have a long way to go before we start talking electric vehicles being able to tow anything with any kind of weight to it.

Here is a great test of where we are at currently:

TFL Rivian towing test
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Old 01-30-2022, 03:05 PM   #39
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Clear, concise, easy to read and spot on. EV is a pipedream. Energy density is the key.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine....ll-a-pipedream
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Old 01-30-2022, 03:40 PM   #40
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Clear, concise, easy to read and spot on. EV is a pipedream. Energy density is the key.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine....ll-a-pipedream
Nice article! Basically the argument I was making a couple posts back about how much energy is required to power everything electric.

The one thing that this article clearly stated that I didn't (in not so many words), is that there is not enough energy density in batteries compared to fuel. This article puts that energy density at a 20:1 ratio with jet fuel being 20X more dense than it's battery cousins. This is played out in the TFL video I posted. They didn't make it a 70 miles pulling a trailer, and had to charge. They were there for 30 minutes, and would have needed to stay there for another 60 minutes to get totally recharge. 1.5 hours to charge!!! WOW...

Not sayin' we won't get there, but we're no where's close right now...
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