Lithium-ion House Battery? - Page 2

JesseS · 10-26-2018, 10:41 AM

True up to a point, the battery BMS system will not allow charging below 25 and will cut off load at 15 degrees, so in really cold climates yes you will need a warming blanket.

PlayersZ28 · 10-26-2018, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseS

Two 6 volt in series will double the voltage but the amperage stays the same, two 12 volt in parallel the voltage stays the same but the amperage doubles.

Yes, I know that. I was questioning what you had in there to start with that is only 105ah. My 6v are 224ah.

I'd be interested in how the test works with just 1 Li batt as then you're comparing 105ah to 100ah and not 200ah. You said you had 2x 6v @ 105 (12v @ 105) for the baseline and then 2x 12v @ 100 for the next test. While I would expect the Li to outperform the LA this was apples and oranges.

PlayersZ28 · 10-26-2018, 10:48 AM

I've been looking into used Tesla packs. If we keep the fiver I'll reconfigure the system installation and switch to one of these. Has some extra requirements needed beyond what a LiFe battery needs.

Les7h · 10-26-2018, 11:23 AM

Jesses your post number 15 confused me when you said you needed to add a 3rd battery Les

JesseS · 10-26-2018, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les7h

Jesses your post number 15 confused me when you said you needed to add a 3rd battery Les

Sorry, I was referring to a 3rd Lifepo4 battery.

JesseS · 10-26-2018, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

I've been looking into used Tesla packs. If we keep the fiver I'll reconfigure the system installation and switch to one of these. Has some extra requirements needed beyond what a LiFe battery needs.

I RV buddy of mine used part of a Leaf battery pack under the bed in his 5er, seems to work great.

JesseS · 10-26-2018, 11:36 AM

I started with 2 6V GC batteries from CostCo, and they are 105AH. I haven't tried the test with only one LiFePo4 battery, but you can only draw down (DOD) flooded batteries to 50% max, with 70% being better, or you run the risk of ruining them. Lithium can go down to 10-15% before they cut off, and stay above 12 vdc while doing it. So right there you have 35-40% more available power, and as the voltage does not drop much during discharge the lights don't flicker, plus the re-charge time is cut in half. The only down side is if you live in a really cold climate and RV during the winter (full timers) you would need a warming blanket, not a problem as long as you're on shore power. One of my friends built an insulated box for his batteries, as there is no acid to leak that would work fine.

PlayersZ28 · 10-26-2018, 02:09 PM

That's why I didn't know if the 105ah was based on a 50% DOD. I never looked at the specs on the Costco batteries as I didn't wanted flooded for my system. It was cheaper to pay the small bump for AGM than put in a vented box.

Depending on a persons outlook on their system (life & usage) then some type of Li battery is more cost effective. I did my AGM's 3 yrs ago when Li was more money. Even now it would be 3.5x what I paid for my AGM's to go with a Battleborn pack based on the same usable AH. We only use the trailer for 4-5 months in the winter but we mostly boondock when using it.

Past two winters I had 320w and could last 3 days without full sun before I needed to be able to do a full charge, this yr I have 640w.

JesseS · 10-26-2018, 03:00 PM

Yes, Battleborn batteries are expensive, I have a business account with Alibaba (the Chinese Amazon) and deal with a commercial battery supplier, and get them for about 50% of what Battleborn charges. The shipping is expensive as they have to go cargo air due to being classed as hazardous material, but still much cheaper. So far they have proven to be up to spec's.

PlayersZ28 · 10-26-2018, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseS

Yes, Battleborn batteries are expensive, I have a business account with Alibaba (the Chinese Amazon) and deal with a commercial battery supplier, and get them for about 50% of what Battleborn charges. The shipping is expensive as they have to go cargo air due to being classed as hazardous material, but still much cheaper. So far they have proven to be up to spec's.

Yes, in Canada a 100ah Battleborn is ~900$US.

**Mustang65** · 10-26-2018, 04:21 PM

This I the route I would take. A few of these bad boys (probably not politically correct) should do the trick.
Pull up a chair, grab a beer or two and watch a video.

PHASE 2 SOLAR - Installing the Tesla Battery and converting the RV from 12V to 24V

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

PlayersZ28 · 10-27-2018, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang65

This I the route I would take. A few of these bad boys (probably not politically correct) should do the trick.

A few of them would give enough power to let all your friends plug in

By my calcs the easily available 5.4kw packs are equal to 4.5 12v Li batteries although they are NMC rather than the LFP that is normally used for RV's. Based on what they go for on fleaBay they work out to ~280$/12v battery.

Starting out with them is better as switching to them would mean changing out the inverter. Most CC's would support 24v. They also need a DC/DC converter for the house elec. A slight difference in actual voltage of 12v vs ~12.8v

Johnynorthland · 10-27-2018, 07:43 AM

This fellow RV’er did a great review on RV batteries!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJD19RogRtg

pokergeist · 12-03-2018, 10:04 AM

Having just installed Battle Born LiFePO3 (LFP) 100Ah batteries in our Seneca, I have to say there's no way I'm installing Tesla or other electric car modules (Li-Ion) in my rig, especially under the bed.

Li-Ion batteries have greater capacity, but can pose a fire hazard (which can be rather intense). I'm a battery geek and appreciate that proper charging and properly constructed battery packs negates much of the concern. But one mistake or power event could put your rig (and your lives) at risk - never mind the fuel and propane in close proximity.

LiFePO4 batteries are stable and don't present the fire risk. The discharge curve is flatter and the voltages are lower - which I think suits a 12VDC system better (4-s config=12.8V).

Use something with an integrated battery management system (BMS)! Lithium batteries are fussy about temperature. The BMS will temporarily disconnect the charging or discharging circuits if temperature, voltage, or current limits are exceeded.

Some notes on my experience. BB10012s are EXPENSIVE! but have a 10-year warranty and BMS. Discounted $79/each for four. They fit perfectly in my Group 27 battery tray. The batteries have different terminals so I had to order longer parallel cables for the lengthwise connection. I'll be swapping out the PD4590 Power Converter's Charge Module for a Lithium (-Phosphate) unit.

My lead-acid batteries were marginal from the beginning and I have trouble maintaining them in a storage lot with no AC power access (*). I'm looking forward to the big increase in capacity, faster charging, low self-discharge, low maintenance, no hydrogen venting or terminal corrosion.

* Yes, camping more would have improved the charging situation, but some of us still have to work :-(

PlayersZ28 · 12-03-2018, 10:41 AM

790$/BB battery (not 79)? How much solar are you running?

The BB's seem popular. Getting to be more options out there for batteries with Li tech. I'll wait a couple of years yet until my AGM's have aged more to see where Li is at. I've been looking into the prismatic cells.

pokergeist · 12-03-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

790$/BB battery (not 79)? How much solar are you running?

The BB's seem popular. Getting to be more options out there for batteries with Li tech. I'll wait a couple of years yet until my AGM's have aged more to see where Li is at. I've been looking into the prismatic cells.

Discounted to $870 each but you have to ask. I'm running no solar since I have the on-board generator.

Absolutely wait to upgrade if you can. Prices will fall, capacity will go up, and the BMS may become accessibe via Bluetooth or wired. Solar charge controller tech is adapting too.

I looked at building my own modules but I would have $930 in just 18650 LFP cells (new) - no packaging, interconnects, boards or BMS components.

PlayersZ28 · 12-03-2018, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokergeist

Discounted to $870 each but you have to ask. I'm running no solar since I have the on-board generator.

Absolutely wait to upgrade if you can. Prices will fall, capacity will go up, and the BMS may become accessibe via Bluetooth or wired. Solar charge controller tech is adapting too.

I looked at building my own modules but I would have $930 in just 18650 LFP cells (new) - no packaging, interconnects, boards or BMS components.

You said it was 79$/each for four so I thought you'd left off the zero. They had a Cyber monday deal for 849$ and there were some blems available for 100$ less.

The prismatics are 100Ah blocks not 18650 cells. The BB's and similar are nice cause they are simple drop in replacements for LA (assuming suitable charging) but everything is available to build custom solutions.

I seem to change my solar setup every year. Somewhere along the line I'll end up with other than the AGM's.

JesseS · 12-06-2018, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

You said it was 79$/each for four so I thought you'd left off the zero. They had a Cyber monday deal for 849$ and there were some blems available for 100$ less.

The prismatics are 100Ah blocks not 18650 cells. The BB's and similar are nice cause they are simple drop in replacements for LA (assuming suitable charging) but everything is available to build custom solutions.

I seem to change my solar setup every year. Somewhere along the line I'll end up with other than the AGM's.

I have ordered my third Li battery @ $430+ shipping, the two I have are working great and so much better than my LA were. My solar is finished as well as the charge controller. Boondocking is much more enjoyable now.

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