Lithium-ion House Battery?

[Cryn]

Considering replacing the OEM house battery with a 12.8 volt 50Ah lithium battery. Has anyone switched over and does it require any changes to the electrical system? Recommendations appreciated. Thanks!

[JesseS]

Why a 50AH? do you have a smaller rig?, or always stay at full hookups?. Just curious why the small battery. I was at Quartzsite and spent a lot of time grilling the vendors about LiFeP04 batteries, they are the future of power storage, both those and Solid State batteries which are just emerging. The cost is still up there, I want 2 100AH 12v LiFePo4 batteries for my coach, 3-4 times the usable power than my two 6v golf cart batteries, zero maintenance, lighter at 30lbs each, and will get a full charge in 3 hours from 20% (providing you can supply the 100amps they will take. But the lowest price I have found so far is $720 EACH. My DW says when the 6v batteries go we can get them, makes me consider sabotage .
Almost forgot to answer your other question, no changes to your electrical system as they are drop in replacement. They use the AGM charging profile without the Float option enabled, so you need a charger that you can control like a Progressive Dynamics PD9000 series.
I use a 50AH LiFeP04 battery as a trolling motor battery for my boat, works great.

[Cryn]

Trying to keep the cost down, but on second thought should probably look at the 100Ah. Looking at hitting places with shore power for a while until my DW gets more comfortable otherwise. What's involved in enabling the Float option? Sorry, we're getting ready to receive our new Alante and trying to see what I can take care of sooner rather than later as far as upgrading.

[JesseS]

Yes, they are expensive at the moment, but are coming down slowly. As delivered the Alante has a single stage charger (like mine did), this is a compromise, it is not good for flooded batteries to be kept at 13.6V all of the time. The LiFePo4 batteries charge at 14.2 to 14.4 and will accept their rated amperage for the full charge cycle,(why they charge so fast) so Float & Trickle is not needed or wanted. You cannot make any changes to a single stage charger, hence my installing a PD9260c smart charger, which will allow me to make changes, such as locking out float charging. My solar Tracer40 amp charger is also a smart charger and has a wide range of settings. I would have gone with the PD9280 (80amp) charger for even faster charging on the LiFePo4 batteries except it draws 20amps at rated power (the batteries would draw it all) and I only have a 30amp coach, that wouldn't leave much excess power for the three hour charging cycle. I really want these batteries as we boondock a lot, and battery power is very important, but as long as my 6v batteries are still good I can't justify the cost.

[Cryn]

Do you have an inverter in your unit?

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by Cryn

Do you have an inverter in your unit?

Yes I do, I installed a 2500 watt pure sine wave to run everything except the A/C unit. I went the easy way, instead of putting in a separate panel for just those circuits I want to power I just plug the shore power into the inverter output via a standard RV plug I mounted in the shore power box. This does power the entire coach so I have to remember to force the fridge to gas (as we boondock it stays on gas pretty much all of the time) and turn off the inverter when not needed. (also turn off the converter when on inverter).
I don't use the converter much in any case as the 600 watts of solar keeps the batteries fully charged.

[JesseS]

Well, ordered two 100 amp LiFePo4 Lithium house batteries along with a Progressive converter drop in 60 amp (Lithium) charging module for my power center. This should more than double the available power over the flooded golf cart batteries. Plus they will charge 3-5 times faster. Batteries were $423 EA plus $300 air express for both, 5 year warranty and comprehensive BMS with 3K-5K cycle life. Even at 3000 cycles they should last 20 years with proper care. We don't camp in freezing weather, nor do we live in an area that gets below 20º in winter. Will be nice not to have to watch battery use like a hawk, and zero maintenance. Alternator will only charge to 70% (13.8v) but Solar (gel mode set to 14.6v) or genset (converter) will top them off fast.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by JesseS

Well, ordered two 100 amp LiFePo4 Lithium house batteries along with a Progressive converter drop in 60 amp (Lithium) charging module for my power center. This should more than double the available power over the flooded golf cart batteries. Plus they will charge 3-5 times faster. Batteries were $423 EA plus $300 air express for both, 5 year warranty and comprehensive BMS with 3K-5K cycle life. Even at 3000 cycles they should last 20 years with proper care. We don't camp in freezing weather, nor do we live in an area that gets below 20º in winter. Will be nice not to have to watch battery use like a hawk, and zero maintenance. Alternator will only charge to 70% (13.8v) but Solar (gel mode set to 14.6v) or genset (converter) will top them off fast.

WOW! Some really awesome stuff is out there. Thank you for posting the info. My pockets aren't deep enough to consider it, but maybe someday...

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

WOW! Some really awesome stuff is out there. Thank you for posting the info. My pockets aren't deep enough to consider it, but maybe someday...

We Dry-Camp a LOT!, so having plenty of worry free battery power is very important. As for the $$$, well, being retired empty nester's what else am I going to spend it on? I certainly don't want to hoard it so my kids can enjoy it, that's what that expensive education was for.

[klspahr]

Wow JesseS that sounds like a great upgrade! Keep us updated on how it works for you. Can you post where you bought them so we can go there and drool?

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by klspahr

Wow JesseS that sounds like a great upgrade! Keep us updated on how it works for you. Can you post where you bought them so we can go there and drool?

I bought them direct from the manufacturer in China as samples for 1/2 price. I was going to get Battleborn but at $950 each I just couldn't do it. The air express was $175 each (Hazardous material fee) or I could have gotten 4 shipped by sea for $350, but that would be overkill. 200 amps should be plenty, but if needed I can extend the battery box for a third.

You can get them HERE

[JesseS]

Well, the LoFePo4 batteries are in and a test performed. And all I can say is WOW!
I tested the 2 105AH 6V GC batteries, and from a full charge ran a 1500 watt hair dryer for 15 minutes, then the 1000 watt MW for 2 minutes each for 5 cups of hot water, so after 25 minutes of heavy use the flooded batteries were at 62% DOC, and 11.2 volts and took 5.5 hrs to charge. The exact same test with the 2 100 AH 12 v LiFePo4 batteries ended with them at 87% and 12.5 volts. At no time did they drop below that even while the MW was pulling 155 amps from the inverter, and they recharged to 100% in 51 minutes from the PD 9160ALV Lithium charger/converter.
I did have to go into my settings for the solar controller and set the profile to 'user' to get it to charge at a constant 14.8volts, the BMS in the batteries will balance and control the charge rate. For most of the charge cycle the batteries were taking 40 amps, right up until the last 3 minutes when they ramped down to 2 amps at 100%, I could not turn off float so set it for 14.8 also, and just let the BMS take care of everything.
So, tons of available power (down to 15% DOC), super fast re-charging, zero maintenance, and light weight (26lbs each). I am a happy boondocker!!

[jasoev]

Originally Posted by JesseS

Well, ordered two 100 amp LiFePo4 Lithium house batteries along with a Progressive converter drop in 60 amp (Lithium) charging module for my power center.

I'm getting closer to making a decision on upgrading to two 100AH BattleBorn LiFeP04 batteries on my Jayco Greyhawk motorhome. I plan on switching out the Progressive Dynamics charger controller board with the Lithium model, PD4060 to PD4060LICSV. Was the swap out straightforward?

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by jasoev

I'm getting closer to making a decision on upgrading to two 100AH BattleBorn LiFeP04 batteries on my Jayco Greyhawk motorhome. I plan on switching out the Progressive Dynamics charger controller board with the Lithium model, PD4060 to PD4060LICSV. Was the swap out straightforward?

It was a pretty straight forward swap out as I decided to go with the stand alone PD9160LVE Lithium charger. I just disconnected the OEM converter from its breaker and ran a 110 socket to it, then ran a new 6Ga blk/red charging cable from the distribution panel input to the new charger, done. This way I still have the OEM converter/charger as a backup that I can reconnect in 10 minutes in case of need. But my unit is in the bed frame so placing the new charger under the bed in the electronics bay was a snap.

[JesseS]

After boondocking for 2 weeks last month I think I will do a battery trey extension (only need 4" more) and add a third Lifepo4 battery so I can run the microwave longer when needed. I found myself having to start the genset for anything over 5 minutes of combined use.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by JesseS

Well, the LoFePo4 batteries are in and a test performed. And all I can say is WOW!
I tested the 2 105AH 6V GC batteries, and from a full charge ran a 1500 watt hair dryer for 15 minutes, then the 1000 watt MW for 2 minutes each for 5 cups of hot water, so after 25 minutes of heavy use the flooded batteries were at 62% DOC, and 11.2 volts and took 5.5 hrs to charge. The exact same test with the 2 100 AH 12 v LiFePo4 batteries ended with them at 87% and 12.5 volts. At no time did they drop below that even while the MW was pulling 155 amps from the inverter, and they recharged to 100% in 51 minutes from the PD 9160ALV Lithium charger/converter.
I did have to go into my settings for the solar controller and set the profile to 'user' to get it to charge at a constant 14.8volts, the BMS in the batteries will balance and control the charge rate. For most of the charge cycle the batteries were taking 40 amps, right up until the last 3 minutes when they ramped down to 2 amps at 100%, I could not turn off float so set it for 14.8 also, and just let the BMS take care of everything.
So, tons of available power (down to 15% DOC), super fast re-charging, zero maintenance, and light weight (26lbs each). I am a happy boondocker!!

You had 2 6v batteries that were only 105AH? Are you referring to the usable AH or actual? Now you have 12 @ 100AH which is double the original AH installed?

[JesseS]

Two 6 volt in series will double the voltage but the amperage stays the same, two 12 volt in parallel the voltage stays the same but the amperage doubles.

[DNelson]

Everything I have read warns against charging a Lithium battery if they have frozen. That pretty much means a warming blanket/device of some sort for those of us in the Minnesota frozen tundra. Unless there have been changes in the Lithium batteries I am unaware of. It isn't using the batteries in freezing weather but rather one can't charge them until they get above freezing.

[Les7h]

Jesses. I think that you will have to add 2 more batteries because it is recommended to stay with the same battery type - a pair of 6 volts and a 12 volt may not be a good combination but it might be ok with LI-ON Les

[JesseS]

I haven’t mixed battery types, I replaced the flooded with the lifepo4 batteries.