195 RBW - Relocating Battery to Inside?

[MrKABC]

Before you say it - I don't want to relocate my EXISTING lead acid battery inside...

I want to get a Battle Born LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX197GJ...v_ov_lig_dp_it

You CAN have a LiFe battery inside the trailer. Since I installed dual propane tanks out front I no longer have the space for doubling up on batteries, so in order to do that I must relocate them to the inside of the trailer.

What would be involved in rerouting wires? What might be a good place for the battery(ies)? I am thinking under the dinette chairs.

Thoughts? Help? Much appreciated!

[Bob K]

How about under the bed in a battery box or battery tray? I think there might be more opportunities to get wire either from the junction box on the front of the trailer frame up into the basement or to snake wires from the charge controller behind cabinets, etc. and into the basement versus trying to get wires to the table side of the trailer.

Battleborn says typical charge controllers will work so long as their bulk and float voltages are within spec; however, I'm not sure that lead acid and LiFePO4 batteries can be run on the same charge controller. Let me know if you find out. Maybe just replace the lead acid battery with the LiFePO4? One 100AH LiFePO4 battery is basically like having 2 100AH lead acid batteries since lead acid can only be discharged 50% whereas LiFePO4 can be discharged 100%.

[MrKABC]

Under the bed would work... anyone know how the wiring is routed? Oh, and I will not be having a combination lead acid / lithium, it's one or the other.

[Bob K]

BattleBorn indicates their LiFePO4 batteries, more often than not, are drop-in replacements for lead acid batteries. So long as your charge controller charges at the rate the batteries require (which is more likely than not), then you can just do a direct replacement of your lead acid battery. From my research, BattleBorn encourages customers to call them for help and fitment before buying. If you wanted to keep the battery in the basement, you'd just have to find a way to run the wires from the existing POS and NEG terminals on the lead acid battery into your basement.

Of course, you could just put the new--very expensive--battery where your existing battery is if you're not worried about theft or if you had a way to secure it.

[01tundra]

If you're going to go through the trouble of relocating your new battery inside closer to the converter, do yourself a favor and run larger gauge wire from the battery to converter and let the factory wire (likely 8 AWG) backfeed the trailer.

A LiFePO4 will charge extremely fast if you have adequate wire size to push the amps, our converter pushes 55A to our battery until it's approaching 100% SOC.

Our battery is a foot from the converter with 1/0 wire ran to a power post mounted behind the converter and then from the power post, dual 6 AWG to the fuse panel lugs. We also replaced the factory WFCO converter with a PD4655L Wildkat converter made for LiFePO4.

[MrKABC]

@01Tundra THAT looks NICE!!!!!! I wonder how much room the 195 has available to do that.

[Murff]

So, does one take out a loan to purchase that battery?

Murff

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by Murff

So, does one take out a loan to purchase that battery?

Murff

Hahahah! PayPal 6 months 0% FTW!

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

@01Tundra THAT looks NICE!!!!!! I wonder how much room the 195 has available to do that.

Thanks. I just made space for the second battery yesterday.

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

@01Tundra THAT looks NICE!!!!!! I wonder how much room the 195 has available to do that.

About the only place I can think of in the 195RB besides under the bed or dinette seats might be in the cupboard under the sink. As I recall there is a false wall and shelf in that cupboard with a small area in front to store things on the floor. Never looked behind the false wall when I had my 195RB but it's a possibility. That would be right next to where the power distribution center is.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

About the only place I can think of in the 195RB besides under the bed or dinette seats might be in the cupboard under the sink. As I recall there is a false wall and shelf in that cupboard with a small area in front to store things on the floor. Never looked behind the false wall when I had my 195RB but it's a possibility. That would be right next to where the power distribution center is.

I've found with both Jayco and Rockwood that most of the false walls are just space wasters and one can maximize free space by either totally removing them or reworking them. I've removed all but one from our current trailer.

[MrKABC]

Blahhhhhh... looks like I have run in to a snag.

My 195RBW comes with a WFCO WF-8735-P Black 30 Amp Power Center.

According to the WFCO "Lithium Ion Solutions" website, the 8700 series power centers are not listed as ones that can "...charge your lithium-ion battery, without damage or excessive heat so you will not have to worry about where your power supply will be coming from..."

I wrote to WFCO to ask what might be an acceptable alternative to run a LiPo battery with a similar form factor to the 8735. Since the 195RBW is small, I don't have much space to go carving into the cabinetry to accommodate much larger/different sized panels.

Any ideas?

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

Blahhhhhh... looks like I have run in to a snag.

My 195RBW comes with a WFCO WF-8735-P Black 30 Amp Power Center.

According to the WFCO "Lithium Ion Solutions" website, the 8700 series power centers are not listed as ones that can "...charge your lithium-ion battery, without damage or excessive heat so you will not have to worry about where your power supply will be coming from..."

I wrote to WFCO to ask what might be an acceptable alternative to run a LiPo battery with a similar form factor to the 8735. Since the 195RBW is small, I don't have much space to go carving into the cabinetry to accommodate much larger/different sized panels.

Any ideas?

Take a look at the Progressive Dynamics PD4135 - listed as a direct replacement for the WFCO 8735:

PD4135 at bestconverter.com

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

Take a look at the Progressive Dynamics PD4135 - listed as a direct replacement for the WFCO 8735:

PD4135 at bestconverter.com

Thank you for the tip! I went to the site and looked at the manual for the 4135:

http://www.bestconverter.com/assets/...35/4135man.pdf

The manual didn't give any reference to LiPo battery compatibility.

WFCO still hasn't answered my inquiry.

SIGH...

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

Thank you for the tip! I went to the site and looked at the manual for the 4135:

http://www.bestconverter.com/assets/...35/4135man.pdf

The manual didn't give any reference to LiPo battery compatibility.

WFCO still hasn't answered my inquiry.

SIGH...

I would check with Battleborn regarding the PD4135. Based on details from the Battleborn Charging FAQ the PD4135 with Charge Wizard would seem to fit the charge profile they are expecting - bulk at 14.4 and float at 13.6.

[brwarrior]

Any particular updates? I'm looking to go with the BB as I have maxed out the tongue (700lbs) on my 195RBW Baja with gual GC2s on the tongue and a full 30 gallon fresh tank). The switch to lithium will drop about 80 lbs, most from the tongue which is a great help and only a small drop in usuable power and with 200W of solar I've never really had a problem.

I was planning on installing under the bed. I put in a divider/support (1/2" ply). I already have a solar controller (will be replaced as it's PWM and not set up for LiFePO4 and I love gadgets and eyeing one of the Victron SCC (SmartSolar 100/20 w/BT plus a BMV-712 monitor). IIRC, the battery connection cables are fairly long on my 2020. I think they can just be pulled into the cargo area. You'll need to punch a hole through the floor. I already did one for a conduit for solar in and out. I used a PVC nipple (3/4" or 1" x 2" with lock rings securing it to the trailer floor and plastic bushing to protect the wire on each end). You need a minimum 1/2" for (2)#8 THHN/THWN conductors which I think they use but they might be a battery cable which could be a PVC, EPDM or something else.

I am slightly unsure on DC to DC charging. Seems to be a lot of people are now installing DC to DC chargers to protect the vehicle's alternator. For AC charging as PD doesn't make a drop-in replacement that I've found, I've thought of just getting a dedicated PD lithium rated charger and disconnecting the existing converter. Where to mount said converter is the next big question. I don't know how much room is behind the converter. Plus I'd like to add an EMS back there. There's no accessible AC under the bed. So maybe under the dinette. A sharp utility knife and gorilla tape make dealing with the chloroplast liner not a big issue.

IIRC there are three ShortStop style breakers on the front of the trailer. The last one has the coach main cables going back to the power center. I think the middle one on mine goes to the breakaway switch. I'm guessing the other one powers the JaySmart lighting controller.

[MrKABC]

@brwarrior: No updates yet. WFCO got back to me and said that they had lost my original email to them, so I resent my information request. I have also reached out to Battle Born providing the WFCO 8735-P information.

Waiting on replies! I also want to reduce my tongue weight.

Incidentally, where did you get that 30 gallon water tank? I want to do EXACTLY that but am having a hard time sourcing a tank. Jayco won't help me, and my dealer insists that since I don't have a Baja model I can't order an OEM Baja tank to replace my (too small) 20 gallon.

As soon as I get a reply I'll shout out!

[brwarrior]

I have a Baja so it came with 30 gallon. It's ridiculous they won't help. From pictures I've seen the 30 gallon tank is probably a little taller and it slopes towards the front. In the attached it's nearly as tall as the Luan divider and nearly touches the front wall.

If a customer wanted the tank and Jayco was being dumb and I was a smart dealer and I would tell them a tech was fixing a Baja version we had in stock and punctured the tank so we were going to replace it. Give them that VIN and voila.

[MrKABC]

I'll say one thing... Battle Born is FAST with their reply:

Hello Art,

Thank you for the email and inquiry.
*
You can use that converter, but due to its output voltage of 13.6V you’ll never be able to get a full charge on the battery. We would recommend replacing it with a Progressive Dynamics PD9145ALV deck mount charger. I’ve attached link below to our website for that unit.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ttery-charger/

Thank You,
Roni Ventura

[MrKABC]

Annnnnnd from WFCO:

The converter you have is not an actual lithium converter but will charge to approx.. 90 to 95%.* We do not have a direct replacement converter that is lithium for this model at the present time.
*
John Klocek
WFCO Electronics
Power Pro Team Lead Technician