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07-13-2018, 07:45 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 120
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2016 x213 CAT scales visit
So I visited the CAT scales last Friday, and followed the How-to...
First, some info:
Truck: 2015 Toyota Tundra CrewMAX, 3/4 tank of fuel, driver (~180lbs), 6 gallon water jug on floor of passenger seat, a couple of tool bags and some usual every-day cargo (emergency kit, blankets, etc), rigid tri-fold tonneau cover
Trailer: 2016 x213, almost empty black tank (only chemicals and a couple gallons of water), 6 gallons of fresh water, easy-up dining shelter behind/over axles, most dishes, but no clothes/food. 2 full 20lb tanks on tongue, single 12V battery (group 24, 50 lbs), spare tire under tongue, full hot water tank, 3" memory foam topper on king size bed, no bikes.
WDH: Husky Centerline TS with 400-600lb load bars
CAT Scales: 17 Acre Travel Center (401/416 interchange in Ontario).. $18 for the first weight, $5 for each additional weigh
I have already towed loaded up for camping (me, wife, 2 kids, bikes in the bed of the truck (before I had the tonneau cover)), small amounts of water (just from dealer de-winterizing) in trailer, clothes/food for a weekend, and it towed great. Kept it at 100kph (~60mph) when on highway.
We plan on camping a couple of weekends a year, with a longer ~2 week trip in the summer. We live in Ottawa, so most of our driving will be in Ontario/Quebec (so no major mountains, lots of highway driving). We mostly stay in provincial parks, and try to have electric site, but get the occasional non-electric, usually to be close to the water. The truck is my daily driver.
Truck capacities (from sticker):
GVWR: 7209 lbs (3270kg)
GAWR (front): 4000 lbs (1815kg)
GAWR (rear): 4155 lbs (1885kg)
"Combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1300lbs"
TWR: 9800 lbs
GCWR: 16000 lbs
Trailer capacities (from sticker):
GVWR: 5500 lbs
Max cargo: 1045 lbs
"Factory weight with propane": 4446 lbs
1st weight (Truck only, with WDH still attached and bars in the truck bed):
Front axle: 3480 lbs
Drive axle: 2920 lbs
Gross weight: 6400lbs
2nd weight (Truck, trailer, WDH with bars attached):
Front axle: 3480 lbs
Drive axle: 3360 lbs
Trailer axle: 4220 lbs
Gross weight: 11060 lbs
3rd weight (Truck, trailer, WDH with bars NOT attached - in bed of truck):
Front axle: 3240 lbs
Drive axle: 3740 lbs
Trailer axle: 4080 lbs
Gross weight: 11060 lbs
Calculations:
Trailer weight: 11060-6400 = 4660 lbs
Tongue weight (with WDH): (3480+3360) - 6400 = 440 lbs (just under 9.5%)
Tongue weight (without WDH bars installed): (3240 + 3740) - 6400 = 580lbs (around 12.5%)
Max extra weight in truck: 7209-6400 = 809 lbs
Max extra weight in trailer: 5500-4660 = 840 lbs
Things to add for camping:
In truck: Wife, 2 kids
In trailer: Bikes x 4 (under front bunk), food, clothes
Conclusions:
I will still need to get weighed when loaded for camping, but I wanted some base numbers first to see how I should pack, and the answer is: light and as far back in the trailer as possible.
Trailer:Need to pack as far back as possible (which is hard with the x213). I'll put the 4 bikes under the bunk, and try and pack as much heavy stuff as far back as possible.
I figure I'll have another ~400lbs in the trailer, with a bunch of it being up front because of the bikes. So we have a new trailer weight of 5100lbs (440 more lbs), and a tongue weight of 850lbs (270 more), that brings me to 16.7% tongue weight (although with the WDH hitch, it should be less, seeing as how it moved 140lbs off the tongue, which if we take that off again, brings me to 13.9% tongue weigh, but it will hopefully move more off).
Truck:
I'll be close to the max weight of the truck. Listed weight for cargo and occupants is 1300lbs, but I'm down to only 800 left to GVWR (which means 500lbs of me (180lbs), water jug (40lbs), tonneau (??? 100lbs), WDH (80lbs), misc cargo )... Once I put in 3 more people (and some more tongue weight), not much more weight for cargo (note the water jug will not be in the truck).
Questions:
Would it be worthwhile to try and move the spare tire to the back bumper? I know I am limited to 100lbs, but the newer 2018 x213s have the spare on the back bumper, which will certainly help with the tongue weight.
Would it be worthwhile to put a jug or 2 of water right at the back of the trailer? I'm assuming it couldn't hurt, and might reduce tongue weight a bit (I'm planning on carrying a jug anyway for just-in-case, it is just a bit more awkward to access at the back).
Should I look at getting bigger trunnion bars? Mine are the 400-600lbs, but there is a 600-800lb version as well...
My battery was toast, so I upgraded to a group 27 DC battery (60 lbs, 10 lbs more than the one that was there). I had been thinking about going to a 2 battery setup, but adding another 50+ lbs to the tongue (and another hit to the wallet) didn't seem right for the occasional non-electric site.
Thanks for any suggestions/advice,
Paul
__________________
2015 Toyota Tundra Limited CrewMax
2016 Jayco x213
2012 Toyota Highlander (sold)
2009 Jayco 1206 Tent Trailer (sold)
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07-19-2018, 07:49 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Happy Valley
Posts: 3
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Paul,
Low half ton payloads with families in the tow vehicle and trailer tongue weights will always be a finely tuned balancing act.
For the record, as it seems a lot of people mess this up, the weight distribution hitch does Not decrease tongue weight, it transfers some of it to the front axle and the trailer axle. So as far as payload and GVRW of your truck is concerned, the tongue weight is what is and counts against your payload.
My 2 cents would be to pack everything you can in the trailer and not the truck, especially the bed of your truck, and play around with balance until you get under your payload with as much tongue weight as your can as to get a good tow
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07-19-2018, 09:02 PM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Paul,
Great work at the CAT scale!
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_ottawa
snip...... I will still need to get weighed when loaded for camping, but I wanted some base numbers first to see how I should pack,....snip
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Before considering moving the spare tire, purchasing a higher rated WDH........, I would finish loading your TV/TT (w/passengers, etc.) and then confirm your final "ready to camp" weights at the CAT scale as you planned to do....., then determine if any loading changes are required and to what degree.
With your "estimated" final TT loaded weight of 5,100lbs, I believe your loaded tongue weight will be less then your "estimated" 850lbs.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-20-2018, 09:07 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 120
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Thanks for the tips.
We are heading out next weekend, so I'll skip doing any changes until after our trip. I'll hit the CAT scales on the way out (we conveniently drive right by some about an hour out) and see what the result is.
I'll going to do my best to keep the truck as empty as possible, and load the trailer as far back as possible with the heavy stuff.
I'll post an update when I get back.
Happy Camping!
__________________
2015 Toyota Tundra Limited CrewMax
2016 Jayco x213
2012 Toyota Highlander (sold)
2009 Jayco 1206 Tent Trailer (sold)
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08-10-2018, 01:30 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 120
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2nd visit....
So we loaded up for our 11 night camping trip (4 nights in Algonquin Provincial Park, 3 nights in Restoule PP, 4 nights in Grundy PP), and hit the CAT Scales at the Antrim Truck Stop in Arnprior, Ontario.
As much as we tried, we were not packed light. I had the 4 bikes under the bunks, as well as 3x40W solar panels (attached to the bottom of the bunk), food for the first 4 days (as well as some for the rest of the trip), clothes, easy up shelter, 4 chairs, small propane BBQ and stove, telescopic ladder, etc etc. We had 6 gallons in the fresh tank, minimal black and gray, full hot water tank. I also had a 6 gallon jug of water in the very back in the trailer. 2 20lb tanks on the tongue, as well as a group 27 battery and a power tongue jack. The truck had a full tank of gas, the 4 of us, life jackets and pool noodles (the truck bed was pretty much empty).
1st weight (Truck, drive and passengers only, with WDH still attached and bars in the truck bed):
Front axle: 3620 lbs
Drive axle: 3060 lbs
Gross weight: 6680lbs
2nd weight (Truck, trailer, WDH with bars attached):
Front axle: 3540 lbs
Drive axle: 3680 lbs
Trailer axle: 4980 lbs
Gross weight: 12200 lbs
3rd weight (Truck, trailer, WDH with bars NOT attached - in bed of truck):
Front axle: 3320 lbs
Drive axle: 4060 lbs
Trailer axle: 4840 lbs
Gross weight: 12200 lbs
Calculations:
Trailer weight: 12200-6680 = 5520 lbs
Tongue weight (with WDH): (3540+3680) - 6680 = 540 lbs (just under 9.8%)
Tongue weight (without WDH bars installed): (3320 + 4060) - 6680 = 700lbs (around 12.7%)
Truck capacity: 7209 - 6680 = 529lbs
Conclusions:
20 lbs overweight in the trailer with WDH.
11 lbs overweight in the truck with WDH.
Axles for the truck are within limits (rear is close without the WDH bars)
WDH moves 160lbs off the tongue, 380lbs off the rear axles, 220lbs to the front axles of the truck and 140lbs to the trailer axles
TWR and GCWR are fine.
I had been very concerned about the weight in the truck, and rightly so. I moved some stuff into the bed after our first stay so the trailer would not be overweight (I figure the truck would be better to have slightly overweight than the trailer).
Tongue weight was good (that was my biggest concern) once I got the bikes in.
The 3x40W solar panels won't necessarily be going on all trips, and that is a good thing, as they are heavy.
Should I try and adjust the WDH (Husky Centerline TS) to move a bit more weight to the front axles? When they were installed, they were adjusted by the dealer and were spot on for an empty trailer (front axle weight returned to the original weight when the bars were attached). They are now 80lbs lighter. If I should adjust them, is it a hard thing to do?
Thanks for all of the advice. I'll have another post with some mods/fixes we have thought of after our first long trip.
Paul
__________________
2015 Toyota Tundra Limited CrewMax
2016 Jayco x213
2012 Toyota Highlander (sold)
2009 Jayco 1206 Tent Trailer (sold)
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08-10-2018, 02:03 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,958
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Excellent work on the weigh ins, and on getting things dialed in.
Great choice of CG's too! We leave Sunday for a week at Charleston Lake PP, followed by a week at Bonnechere PP.
I might tighten up the WDH a bit if you feel it is at all light in the front or nose high, but you are pretty close to the original there. Check the heights of your wheel arches too, you may be where you need to be already. Your truck's owners manual should tell you what this should be. Some say to return to original height, some say to return half the difference in height.
With my Husky round bar, that just means taking up one more link on the chain; for your Centreline it looks like you can move the bars up one notch fairly easily, but I don't know this model. If you have to add another shim to the head that gets a bit more involved as those nuts are huge and need to be properly torqued when reinstalled.
With an FWD SUV I tend to feel the light front end more. If I'm too light and hit the gas, I'll get plenty of wheel spin to let me know.
Happy camping!
__________________
2011 Jayco X19H (purchased 2015)
2008 Jayco 1007 PUP (purchased new, traded for the X19)
2018 Nissan Titan Midnight Ed.
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08-13-2018, 11:36 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 120
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Charleston Lake and Bonnechere are on our list... Not sure when we'll get there, but we are trying...
I'll see about bringing it up a notch to see, but yeah, I don't really want to have to adjust the shims/washers...
I don't noticed the front end being too light, but I'll do some more measurements and see. We won't be out again until Thanksgiving, so I'll have to wait for some more loaded measurements.
Enjoy your trip!
Thanks,
Paul
__________________
2015 Toyota Tundra Limited CrewMax
2016 Jayco x213
2012 Toyota Highlander (sold)
2009 Jayco 1206 Tent Trailer (sold)
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