A/C Upgrade Question

[stateboy]

I'm set to pick up my new 2016 X254 next Tuesday (a brand new leftover on a dealer lot in Michigan). I saw where an upgrade was available on the A/C unit from a standard 13,500 BTU to a 15,000 BTU. If it's possible for a dealer to swap out such a unit, my quesrion is this... is the extra 1,500 BTUs make a difference? I had a 13,500 BTU unit on my pop up and it was more than sufficient. My pop-up extended to 20 feet in length and my new camper will be closer to 30 feet in length. Thanks!

Jerry

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[wags999]

I've had both, and unless your going to be camping in high heat areas I don't think you will see any difference. In some respects the 13,500 is better in high humidity areas. It will run a little longer which will take more humidity out of the RV.

Good Luck with your new RV.

[stateboy]

Originally Posted by wags999

I've had both, and unless your going to be camping in high heat areas I don't think you will see any difference. In some respects the 13,500 is better in high humidity areas. It will run a little longer which will take more humidity out of the RV.

Good Luck with your new RV.

Thanks for your response wags999. That makes a lot of sense. That 13,500 unit sure was enough in the pop-up. Sounds like I'll save the upgrade money for other goodies.

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[bdreinv]

We had the 13500s on are other camper worked fine. New camper has 15000s they need 2900 watts to start them. We do mostly dry camping and at around 7000' in the summer. And at high elevation they lose about 23% of that power.Wish we had done more research before ordering the Champion 3500 #100162.Now I need a second 3500 so the DW can have ac this summer!Thanks

[stateboy]

Originally Posted by bdreinv

We had the 13500s on are other camper worked fine. New camper has 15000s they need 2900 watts to start them. We do mostly dry camping and at around 7000' in the summer. And at high elevation they lose about 23% of that power.Wish we had done more research before ordering the Champion 3500 #100162.Now I need a second 3500 so the DW can have ac this summer!Thanks

I don't have a generator and don't know exactly when we may start hitting elevations higher than 600'-1,000' above sea level here in Michigan. I guess I'm curious why elevation starts to reduce electrical output on generators (if I read that correctly). I'm sure there's a thread here somewhere on the forum but I never had reason to research it until you brought it up. However, my inquisitiveness may prompt me to do so.

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[bdreinv]

Originally Posted by 36fire412

I don't have a generator and don't know exactly when we may start hitting elevations higher than 600'-1,000' above sea level here in Michigan. I guess I'm curious why elevation starts to reduce electrical output on generators (if I read that correctly). I'm sure there's a thread here somewhere on the forum but I never had reason to research it until you brought it up. However, my inquisitiveness may prompt me to do so.

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According to Champion Generators it has something to do with the air density!We do not really know much about it! Thanks

[Jagiven]

Personally I would not consider upgrading. We have a 13500 in our HTT. It is about 20' closed and 30' when open. The tent ends are not as well insulated as the TT walls, and it has no issues keeping the TT cool.

[stateboy]

I believe I'm going to leave well enough alone and just leave the 13500 BTU unit on the roof. I'm not even sure a dealership would trade those out or if that's something that has to be considered a factory option when ordering. Since this is a brand new leftover 2016 X254, it's not like we've been waiting for this unit after ordering it.

The 2010 Jayco M-1007 pop-up I had with a 13,500 BTU AC was more than sufficient when expanded to 20 feet during use. That was also with canvas and not a hardtop. I really appreciate everyone's input here and it has solidified in my mind that I'll be good to go.

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[dee]

Originally Posted by 36fire412

I don't have a generator and don't know exactly when we may start hitting elevations higher than 600'-1,000' above sea level here in Michigan. I guess I'm curious why elevation starts to reduce electrical output on generators (if I read that correctly). I'm sure there's a thread here somewhere on the forum but I never had reason to research it until you brought it up. However, my inquisitiveness may prompt me to do so.

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Higher altitude means thinner air and less oxygen. When you have less oxygen, there is less fuel injected for the same air/fuel ratio. That ultimately means less power made from a gas engine. This applies to cars/trucks etc although things like turbos can help reduce the effect.

[stateboy]

Originally Posted by dee

Higher altitude means thinner air and less oxygen. When you have less oxygen, there is less fuel injected for the same air/fuel ratio. That ultimately means less power made from a gas engine. This applies to cars/trucks etc although things like turbos can help reduce the effect.

I guess my thought on the generator was this. As long as it was running at the same RPM but at perhaps a lesser horsepower due to lesser oxygen availability at higher elevations, I would still get the same amount of electricity generated from the generator. Sorry for the run-on sentence there.

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[dee]

That’s understandable. The electronic load eventually presents a mechanical load to the engine. A light load at 3600rpm(basic 2 winding conventional generators), would require less torque to turn than a heavy load.. Inverter generators aren’t bound to a fixed rpm to produce 60hz power. Their windings produce 3 phase ac( more efficient) then converts that to dc, then back to a 120v ac.

[stateboy]

Originally Posted by dee

That’s understandable. The electronic load eventually presents a mechanical load to the engine. A light load at 3600rpm(basic 2 winding conventional generators), would require less torque to turn than a heavy load.. Inverter generators aren’t bound to a fixed rpm to produce 60hz power. Their windings produce 3 phase ac( more efficient) then converts that to dc, then back to a 120v ac.

That makes sense. I've heard generators groan under load and dip in RPMs momentarily before recovering. I'm not as well versed on two windings verses three windings. However, I do recall ac being produced at any RPM where's as dc (like my old bicycle generator rubbing against the sidewall of the tire to make electricity for headlight) getting greater (brighter headlight) with more speed. Similar concept perhaps?

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[denn888]

Originally Posted by bdreinv

We had the 13500s on are other camper worked fine. New camper has 15000s they need 2900 watts to start them. We do mostly dry camping and at around 7000' in the summer. And at high elevation they lose about 23% of that power.Wish we had done more research before ordering the Champion 3500 #100162.Now I need a second 3500 so the DW can have ac this summer!Thanks

Just curious, did you look into the micro-air easystart? supposedly you can run your AC with the Honda 2000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soP0uZFd0nQ

[bdreinv]

Thanks that's my next purchase. Suppose to drop start watts 75% pretty amazing!

[lateott]

I installed the Micro-air EasyStart for my 13,500 AC. I have not yet tried it with the Honda 2000, but I understand the AC should start and run with this generator.

But I can now use AC when plugged into a 100ft extension cord plugged into a 15A outlet. Before the Micro-air the compressor would not start unless plugged into a 30A receptacle. The fan would run, but no cold air.

[wags999]

Originally Posted by lateott

I installed the Micro-air EasyStart for my 13,500 AC. I have not yet tried it with the Honda 2000, but I understand the AC should start and run with this generator.

But I can now use AC when plugged into a 100ft extension cord plugged into a 15A outlet. Before the Micro-air the compressor would not start unless plugged into a 30A receptacle. The fan would run, but no cold air.

If your running your AC using a standard extension cord you could be putting your AC at risk. A 13,500 AC typically pulls about 13 amps once running. A 100 foot cord would have an expected voltage drop of about 8 volts, giving you 112 volts (if a true 120 at receptacle) A 15 amp cord at 100 feet should be a #10 wire to get full voltage.

Good Luck.

[lateott]

Yes, fair point on undervolting the AC for significant periods of time. So far this was mostly for testing in storage, but something to keep in mind when I have it plugged in at home and when on the generator later. I can monitor voltage with a kill-a-watt meter and go from there.

Otherwise it was a good experience for me opening up the AC and becoming familiar with its sub-components and wiring. I discovered I can add a thermostat control module from Coleman and thereby control with and upgraded wall thermostat. This will be good if we want to leave our dog inside during hot days, as we can maintain cool without leaving it on all the time. I haven't done this yet, but sometime on the horizon it may be a future project.

[bdreinv]

Thanks Good To Know!