Feather Sport 165 water system basic understanding

[jaycojimfl]

Hi All!

I have a new-2-me 2007 Feather Sport 165. Everything that I've been able to
figure out works excellently, air, heat, hot water, electricals both 12v an
110v.

Unfortunately I've got some very low level non-understanding of how this
water system works. I've got very little experience with plumbing but can do
repairs. For instance the city feed port was loose inside the wall fitting
and leaking a geyser so I figured out how to uncaulk it, *tape* it properly
and put it back together snugly. (I've got a ton of background in
electronics so I can follow pipes and valves and generally figure out where
they go and what they do.)

Believe it or not I'm not understanding if/how the main water tank even fills!!
I *should* be hearing water going in, but I'm not even 100% sure if it's
empty after a system drain.

I see the city water come in and split. One side goes forward and splits
again immediately to the sink cold water and to the drain valve.

It splits again with one line going back probably to the bathroom and
heater and the other side towards the pump.

On the other side of the pump is the tank and the sanitise-fill-hose.

I see the three drain valves for hot and cold water, and one directly from
the tank.

OK here's where my non-understanding starts.

I can't even tell if there's water in the tank or going into the tank. I
connect to city water and I hear the hose pressurise but hear no further
flow, and if the tank is empty I -should- be hearing flow and splash because
it should take a few minutes to fill a 30gal tank.

So that implies the tank is full.

But if I open the tank drain valve nothing happens nothing drains out.

The drain valves for the hot/cold pipes -do- drain when I open the faucets
so I know I've got something working right.

If I turn off pressure at the city port the faucets work till the pressure
drops, and the pump will kick in, and it keeps flowing implying that the
tank is -not- empty. But I can't mess with this experimenting too long
because I know the grey tank will eventually fill.

I half think there might be some pressure switch that enables/disables flow
under certain conditions but I'm not seeing any odd objects in the lines.

I'm also not understanding the pressurisation aspects of the system.

The water must go through the pump to get to the tank. I can see that
physically. But I also know that the pump pressurises the tank, and that the
tank pressure then delivers the water. That says that the water is passing
through the pump in -both- directions. But that's not making sense to me
because if the pressure is low and the pump is on to pressurise the tank I
don't get it how the tank pressure is also delivering the water at the same
time.

I wish this thing had tank gauges, intend to look into adding that later.
For instance I'm going on a 3-day drive and I would want only about 10gal in
the tank and then fill it after I arrive.

Any clues?

BTW I will be participating more but I need to get this thing ready to travel
next week. (I have all the tools to work on anything on the road too.) For
instance I took pics of a mod to patch the radio/CD AUX input out to
smartphone/MP3 Player/etc.

Thanks much. Have a day!

Jim

[tjd1100]

You should have a gravity fill for your fresh water tank..look for a white cap on the outside of your tt. City water shouldnt fill your fresh tank,doesnt on mine.As far as i know there is a chk valve in the pump to prevent water from back flowing into your tank..your fresh tank wont be under pressure all the pump does is pull it from your tank.. I sure other will chime in to to help..

[jaycojimfl]

Originally Posted by tjd1100

You should have a gravity fill for your fresh water tank..look for a white cap on the outside of your tt.

Sure do found that. Oh I do have TT experience maaaaaany years ago but other than cranking the hitch jack and fetching water in a jerry can to gravity fill I didn't have much to do with operations. Not completely sure but I think I also had to tire pump pressurise the water.

City water shouldnt fill your fresh tank,doesnt on mine.

That's extremely counterintuitive given that there's a city port, and less than a foot away is a water tank and I can't imaging how or why it -wouldn't- fill it. LOL!

Owners manual even says it does fill it. Section 5, Plumbing System, page 34 in my book: "Fresh Water Holding Tank - The fresh water tank can be filled by pressure filling through the fresh water inlet (called city water) or by gravity fill." Then it describes how to use the city port, water heater bypass 'Normal,' bleed air. "6. The water heater will fill first, followed by supply lines and faucets.' Which makes sense given the tees I see. But no further mention of gravity fill. (Never mind that last sentence is wrong more later...)

As far as i know there is a chk valve in the pump to prevent water from back flowing into your tank..your fresh tank wont be under pressure all the pump does is pull it from your tank.. I sure other will chime in to to help..

That's exactly what I see happening I just don't understand how or why it works.

On a related topic I had to call a service department because the 'sanitise' section was unclear about "At the gravity fill connection, place a hose into the container with the chlorine solution." The intended hose is not at the gravity fill port but under the sink. Even as he was describing it I understood what that hose was for.

Or maybe my confusion is caused by the book saying 'gravity fill' but meaning either the outside filler -or- the siphon hose, but using them interchangeable and not being specific as to which one they mean in any given sentence.

*NOW* I understand the next page, given: "Dry Camping section: Gravity fill... hose, container filled with water... turn on pump to fill tank." That's exactly how he described how to sanitise. But it's a DIFFERENT FRIGGIN GRAVITY FILL! And though it's hand carry into the trailer it's a siphon hose fill not gravity fill.

I'm not trying to -interpret- any of this, just take the words at face value, but the value of the face varies on different pages. :/

OK so let's say more accurately that I *don't* 'understand' it but I *can* accept it as long as I can learn to *deal* with it. Accurately I like it because with that I -can- fill a 5gal bucket twice to have my 10gal for a 3 day drive and not waste weight dragging water around that I'm not going to use.

There's still something that's not making sense. Under city water the pump never does anything. Fine. With no city water -pressure-, and with water in the tank, the pump must pump -out- of the tank to the system: tank --> pump --> system. But the manual fill hose is teed -between- the pump and the tank. So to 'bucket/hose fill' how does the siphon effect work that pushes water -into- the tank? (pump --> siphon hose tee --> tank.)

I think there's some plumbing magic going on, just as mystical as all that electron --> hole --> hole stuff. LOL!

The owners manual is very very weak, that's half the problem. It says 'here're all the pieces and parts and what they do, but it's up to you to figure out how to use them in an everyday -practical- manner.' :/

TYVM good clues.

[mcfarmall]

Is your fresh water holding tank a big flat one that fits between the frame rails and is held up with a few brackets and a strap? If so, then it is not able to withstand much more than gravity pressure (0 psi). You'll notice that pressure tanks such as the one on your household well or the air compressor in your garage or the propane tanks on your trailer are cylindrical with hemispherical ends. This is how pressure vessels are made.

The reason your pump doesn't run is because your city water pressure is higher than the pump's pressure switch setting so therefore it won't turn on.

Perhaps Jayco made a light years ahead jump in their water system design from 2006 to 2007 because my '06 water system is self explanatory...I didn't even need to crack the owners manual open.

The other theory I have is that Jayco hired a recent high school graduate (or dropout) with some typing skills but no trace of technical expertise to write the manual from someones handwritten or dictated notes. Sounds like it is full of contradictory misinformation.

Remember, we have campers, not space shuttles.

[Terry]

Hey Jim! Fist of all welcome to the forum!! Glad you found us.

As you have discovered, the manual is not that good when it comes to the water system. It is very generic to cover a wide range of campers.

When you hook up the city water connection you basically disable any interaction with the tank. There is a one way valve in the pump that will prevent it from going to the tank. On some high end campers and most 5ers, there are some bypass valves to fill up the tank that way, but not on ones like ours.

In order to use tank water, you simple hold the hose in the gravity hole and fill it until water comes out the overflow.

You might have a siphon hose at your pump that is used to winterize the system by putting into an antifreeze jug.

Ignore those statements in the manual about siphoning from the gravity fill - I have no idea what they are talking about there - but it won't work - there is no way to create the seal necessary for the pump to prime that way.

Hope that helps!

[jaycojimfl]

Originally Posted by mcfarmall

Is your fresh water holding tank a big flat one that fits between the frame rails and is held up with a few brackets and a strap?

No a cube above the rails in the forward left corner. Definitely not pressurised and I don't mind at all just trying to correlate the doc with *REALITY* and learn how to operate it.

The other theory I have is that Jayco hired a recent high school graduate (or dropout) with some typing skills but no trace of technical expertise to write the manual from someones handwritten or dictated notes. Sounds like it is full of contradictory misinformation.

No it's not illiterate I haven't seen a single spelling or grammar error. At first I was *thrilled* that when I DLed the manual directly from Jayco.com it asked me for the **VIN** number!! I was thinking 'that's fantastic they're gonna send a manual that described *my* TT *exactly* as *manufactured*.' HaHaHaHaHaHa!!! and LOL!!!! Yep the joke's on me!!!! Unfortunately it's a hodgepodge written by many people over many years covering many trailers. That's how the contradictions and pure factual errors happen. Maybe a fact or technique was true at one time but not any more. Maybe one fact was true at one time, and another is true now, and they don't delete the outdated info.

Remember, we have campers, not space shuttles.

Right so how hard could it be to write a plain operators manual? I don't even mind all the 'if present' items.

Actually one thing that was totally accurate and invaluable for me was the *pic* -and- *description* of water heater normal/bypass modes.

The standard stuff like heater, water heater and fridge -were- self explanatory by themselves. It's the custom design stuff like the water and electrical systems that's totally lacking.

[jaycojimfl]

Originally Posted by tafische

Hey Jim! Fist of all welcome to the forum!! Glad you found us.

TY I'm gonna friggin need the advice. OTOH I am a Guru level modifier I can make anything out of anything remotely suitable. Yep thinking about a plumbing mod so I -can- fill the tank via city port. No I don't want to -fill- the tank I don't need 240# of water but I -definitely- do want to handle it much more sanitarily than the silly bucket/funnel. I will also eventually post the mods I'm making to fender mount mirrors to kill the vibration.

I asked at the local RV dealer if they had any cannisters, jugs, or even funnels that lent themselves to gravity filling by hand. They have an EIGHT HUNDRED PAGE CATALOG. He looked at me like I had three heads and each spoke a different language none of which he was familiar with. He said no one does anything like that and all I could say was oh OK and left. Got a gas type funnel at wallymart because it had a very wide neck so it wouldn't take five minutes to pass one gallon. Filled my 5gal and going on the road tomorrow.

[Terry]

Yeah - I went through the same head scratching on that when I first got my trailer as well, but after I played with it a few times and went through a season it all came together and I dont really even think about it anymore.

I dont have the need to take water with me very often, but the time I did I used 5 gallon water coolers - boy was that tough to stand there and hold in the button to fill the tank! If I did it all the time I would have to rig some kind of pump fill or something.

Now sanitary - that is another deal all together...lol....ok - I try to be as clean with it as possible, but camping, tanks, fills, hoses - that is tough -- I like clean and no germs, but I always say a little dirt wont hurt. I try to keep my system sanitized each season, and I brush my teeth, etc out of the tank - but I generally use bottled if I am drinking much. Number 1 - it just tastes better and Number 2 - it saves tank water for other important uses.

Let us know how that all works out - would like to see someone do a mod like you describe.

Feel free to ask any other questions - lots of knowledgeable folks out here to help.

Originally Posted by jaycojimfl

TY I'm gonna friggin need the advice. OTOH I am a Guru level modifier I can make anything out of anything remotely suitable. Yep thinking about a plumbing mod so I -can- fill the tank via city port. No I don't want to -fill- the tank I don't need 240# of water but I -definitely- do want to handle it much more sanitarily than the silly bucket/funnel. I will also eventually post the mods I'm making to fender mount mirrors to kill the vibration.

I asked at the local RV dealer if they had any cannisters, jugs, or even funnels that lent themselves to gravity filling by hand. They have an EIGHT HUNDRED PAGE CATALOG. He looked at me like I had three heads and each spoke a different language none of which he was familiar with. He said no one does anything like that and all I could say was oh OK and left. Got a gas type funnel at wallymart because it had a very wide neck so it wouldn't take five minutes to pass one gallon. Filled my 5gal and going on the road tomorrow.