Has anyone installed the WFCO AD model?

DonBr · 07-09-2022, 09:57 AM

As I switch to lithium I've expected to replace the PB model; originally planned to get the LIS model but they may be discontinued and are getting hard to find. AD is easy to find now, but so far the one review I can find that isn't "I got it and it looks good" sort says (from July 1, on Amazon):

Quote:

After a few weeks troubleshooting with WFCO, and support coments like you have to trick it into realizing what battery its connected to I was not impressed with what they call automatic detection. I think their design engineers need to fix some problems. I followed all steps, tried 3 times. Tricked it to blue LED (lithium mode), but at the end of the charge cycle it switched back to green, thinking I have lead acid, but its connected to a 200AH Ampertime which has great reviews. Buy something else until they fix the electronics not worth the trouble of the install and then hear from support you have to trick it. And support also told some BMS systems don't work the best with it. My recomondation to the engineers is to put a backup switch on the board so you can force it into the correct mode, if you don't have the perfect battery and apparent power setup for auto detect.

That is worrisome.

Forester2 · 07-09-2022, 10:48 AM

TomC_AZ was my 'mentor' on installing. I didn't have the 'extra' orange wire on my original unit so install was very straight forward. Did have to swap the bar on the 110 breakers to accomidate existing GE breakers. No big deal: 2 screws. Got mine from Tweetys.

DonBr · 07-09-2022, 10:55 AM

Thanks, but that is an "easy to install" review. I'm looking for "It works great, and always auto-detects my Lithiums like it is supposed to" (or doesn't) sort of review.

EJH · 07-09-2022, 04:40 PM

I have an AD model but have not installed it yet.

Frankly if someone can't find it online and wants to buy mine, I'm happy to sell it. Totally new. I bought it in haste. Because I only have a 100 amp hour battery, I don't really need the converter to top the lithium off as my solar does that just fine.

DonBr · 07-09-2022, 05:19 PM

I have 2 100AH Lithiums, and while my work is not done I attached them one-at-a-time so that they would have equal and full charge when installed, and they did top up fairly quickly with the solar. I just like to have everything perfect, if you know what I mean. Mild OCD.

The AD is everywhere. The issue is, does it work correctly? No reports anywhere I can find, just the type of "easy intall" "haven't installed yet, but arrived just fine" etc. Except the one negative I quoted above.

I can only find one listing now for the LIS, and it is an extremely poor Amazon listing. It says 8735-PB-LIS 8700-LIS. WFCO didn't use the PB part as far as I know. Only one picture, of the outside, so can't read the label. Nowhere is lithium mentioned in the bullet points, and there is no other description. Only review is in French.

Amazon says it is "#105 in RV Freshwater Tanks & Inlets" although that doesn't mean much. I have lots of experience and failing at getting my own listings fixed when they put something in an absurdly weird category.

DonBr · 07-14-2022, 09:59 AM

I'm still very interested in "actual use" reviews. Two days ago a new review appeared on Amazon that says they got it to work with tech support and having to trick it, but not how the trick worked. The review reads:

Quote:

Several YouTube videos gave me the courage to swap this model for my existing WF-8735 P model, dedicated to lead-acid batteries. I treated it as a learning process. After installation, my unit did not recognize my Renogy 100Ah bluetooth battery. After several attempts which required discharging the battery, I got in touch with WFCO technical support. They were extremely responsive.. There's a "trick" to use this unit with a Renogy battery. They provided a link to a 3-minute video which was very clear. I still had an issue so WFCO tech support called me (Shaun) and we sorted it out. I needed larger fuses at the battery and DC distribution panel. Five stars to Shaun and WFCO for their customer care. The product works great. I went from charging at 4-9 amps per hour to 35 amps per hour (in bulk mode). A vast improvement.

MrKABC · 08-06-2022, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonBr

I'm still very interested in "actual use" reviews. Two days ago a new review appeared on Amazon that says they got it to work with tech support and having to trick it, but not how the trick worked. The review reads:

The WFCO "LIS" series is vaporware. I started looking for the panel in 2019, and finally gave up last year and got the Progressive Dynamics 4135. The installation isn't difficult if you know basic wiring, although it does look VERY intimidating at first. My install thread is here on this forum if you're interested.

Don't bother with WFCO, even when I called their tech support (friendly guy, I will give him that!) there was no definitive ETA on those panels from them.

There is a boating site that lists the WFCO LIS series as "coming soon" but it's been that way since 2019. Don't believe eBay when they say they have them! (...but I think you knew that already.)

DonBr · 08-06-2022, 02:51 PM

Yes, it is pretty clear that LIS was replaced with AD, with the LIS possibly/probably never made. The AD is everywhere, but the reviews make it uncertain that it truly, actually, works. I suspect that WFCO will also stop making the P, if they haven't already, so eventually Jayco will be using AD. Costs pretty much the same, at least at retail.

I love the Amazon review that has a title of "Exactly what it says it is and shipped fast!" and then in the review body: "Haven't installed yet but box is in good shape."

For me, at this point it is academic. I have yet to go below 85% using only solar, and I'm not shy about 12V usage including a 2000W inverter. When I was looking for the LIS I did not yet have the trailer "in hand."

MrKABC · 08-06-2022, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonBr

Yes, it is pretty clear that LIS was replaced with AD, with the LIS possibly/probably never made. The AD is everywhere, but the reviews make it uncertain that it truly, actually, works. I suspect that WFCO will also stop making the P, if they haven't already, so eventually Jayco will be using AD. Costs pretty much the same, at least at retail.

I love the Amazon review that has a title of "Exactly what it says it is and shipped fast!" and then in the review body: "Haven't installed yet but box is in good shape."

For me, at this point it is academic. I have yet to go below 85% using only solar, and I'm not shy about 12V usage including a 2000W inverter. When I was looking for the LIS I did not yet have the trailer "in hand."

Ahhhhh... the solar makes the difference. I do not have solar, hence I need the ability for my generator to do a full recharge when I dry camp.

The WFCO and the PD had pretty similar construction, so I assume they are probably both made in a similar "Eastern" locale. No noticeable jump in build quality from one to the other.

I probably would have gotten the AD had it been available at the time, but... <shrug>

TomC_AZ · 08-08-2022, 05:40 PM

I guess I have a unicorn, I have one of the 8740LIS models. I have not installed it yet though due to the "8th" wire that I have. "Thank you Thor/Airstream/Jayco!" I guess my trailer is also a unicorn due to the 8th wire. What should have been a simple swap out was not because of that wire! Oh well the solar tops it off, but it would be nice to be able to use a generator if/where needed to get a higher state of charge.

DonBr · 08-08-2022, 06:34 PM

I've never understood the 8th wire thing. Where does it go? Is there an 8th fuse? From what I gather from WFCO stuff, it should be White, Brown, Grey, Blue, Yellow, Green, Red, Orange.

What color is the 8th wire?

DonBr · 08-08-2022, 06:39 PM

Just realized that you said 8740. Is that correct? The WFCO literature says there is an 8th fuse that is 8740 only.

TomC_AZ · 08-08-2022, 08:28 PM

The 166 comes standard with the WFCO 8735 power center. In my discussions with Jayco and WFCO engineers, due to the 8th wire, they suggested I use the 8740 instead to have additional battery charging power.

The "8th" wire is the "special" wire and its the orange one. See the second to bottom picture below. It also has an additional fuse (40amp) that an 8735 should not have, see second picture and was confirmed by WFCO engineer and documentation (RTFM when in doubt, last pic screen shot from manual).

The standard power center (both 8735 and 8740) only has 7 wires. See the first pic it is my 8740LIS, no orange wire. It however does have 2 fuses which is standard for the 8740.

So what is it? That was mine and the engineer's question when talking to him. We spent about 2hr talking figuring out what it was and did. By the way I have had an opportunity to talk with a Jayco engineer (30yrs exp) and he had not ever seen this configuration either. Their help desk does not know nor do they have any documents on it and the manual for our trailer does not explain it either.

What we found out was that Thor (parent company of Jayco and Airstream) had this configuration created for Airstream and Jayco to use on some models. It so happens that ours was lucky enough to get one, so have a few others on here. This wire CONTINUES to have 12v power going to/from it even when the 12v battery disconnect has been turned to off. All other fuses are dead but this is not as long as there is a battery connected. Its use allows for the trailer to be plugged in to shore power and maintain the battery while ALL other electrical has been turned off (you would still have to have the charger breaker on for this to work). Its a maintenance thing.

I just found out today that airstream has indoor storage at their dealers that they lease out to owners who cannot store on their own property. As part of the storage they plug the trailers in. So basically its a "undocumented feature". But it does allow for more current to get to the batteries and I believe that this has actually allowed the converter to fully charge my batteries (4 100ah lithium) a couple of times.

Basically that orange wire on the 8735 should not be there, it is not standard.

DonBr · 08-08-2022, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

It also has an additional fuse (40amp) that an 8735 should not have, see second picture and was confirmed by WFCO engineer and documentation (RTFM when in doubt, last pic screen shot from manual).

The manual does, and it is in your picture, show that 7th fuse, it just doesn't say what amps it is. Below, I'm showing 5 pictures of 8735s for sale around the web, 3 P, 1 LIS, 1 AD. All show the 40 amp fuse. In fact I can't find an image of an 8735 that does not have the orange 40. Directly above the screen shot you show, it has a chart that says the 8735 has a 40, and the 8730 has a pair of 30s.

I haven't opened mine up, but I would bet that the orange wire feeds into that 40. May not be standard, but not hard to duplicate with an AD or LIS model. On edit I see that the orange wire does feed to the opposite side of the 40, and is marked Bat+.

TomC_AZ · 08-08-2022, 10:42 PM

Forget the fuses, that just confuses the 8th wire situation...

The 8th wire is the orange one, it comes out the back of the unit with the other 7 and connects to an 8AWG black wire (see attached pic, orange/black is 8th wire and the reds is the main 12v input). This black wire then goes direct to the battery via auto reset breaker up by the back of the disconnect switch on a Jayco inhouse build buss bar. (the one by the water heater under the bed)

The first pic in my last post that shows just the wires coming out of the back of the 8740lis. These 7 are what all other 8735/8740, "standard", power centers have. There is no "standard" orange wire. If yours has an orange wire out the back you are in the same boat with me. There are not many of us.

With that being said you CANNOT just go out and buy an 8735/40 power center from anyone that has this 8th wire... it has to be ordered via Jayco/airstream only. The WFCO engineer I talked with could not confirm if they even made any of the LIS or AD models with this mod. Dealers (at least the ones I have worked with) also dont know or won't try and dig up the info. Hence why I have not put mine in, I want it to be as OEM as possible.

DonBr · 08-08-2022, 10:51 PM

So, just make it OEM WFCO instead of OEM Thor! Cap that wire and don't use it. The only thing you "lose" is the ability to charge the batteries with the cutoff turned off! The standard Red wire handles flow to/from the batteries, and the 40A fuse handles power from the converter to the rest of the fuses. They designed it that way, so I don't understand the insistence on doing it Thor weirdly.

TomC_AZ · 08-09-2022, 10:52 AM

Yeah your right, I guess I just got stuck in my brain I didn't want that wire floating "around". I also had the larger solar/inverter install to complete so didn't want to worry about one more thing, was easier to keep it stock for the time. With that all done and working great I can look at other things. Now you got me thinking again, its a very easy swap. I can even hook it up with the other wire as technically my OEM battery disconnect has been replaced with the better one right next to the batteries. I will swap it out in the next week or so before we go out again. It will be nice to have a better charger!

Forester2 · 08-09-2022, 12:08 PM

The AD I got must not have mulriple charging rates. Looks like its off to Progressive Dynamics

DonBr · 08-09-2022, 12:17 PM

Happy that you took my remarks in the "hopefully constructive" spirit it was meant.

If anyone ever runs into an LIS, 8735 or 8740, that is actually for sale, let me know because I might want to add it. While mine is "stored" in full sun in my driveway, sun is a fairly scarce commodity here year round and of course is a lot lower in the Winter, so it may not keep up. I have a full park pedestal with 50/30/20, water, and sewer, so keeping it plugged in is not a problem.

DonBr · 08-09-2022, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

It will be nice to have a better charger!

Various posts indicate that, in Lithium mode, both the LIS and AD models will only hold 14.4 output for 4 hours before dropping to 13.6. Turning the converter off for 30 seconds and back on is supposed to drop it back into bulk mode.

I saw a three-month-old post from WFCO that said they are working on a model that will stay in bulk for 10 hours.

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