Jacking BAL/NORCO NGX Frames

[FeatherFam]

I made a new thread for this to clarify and isolate the matter:

Just spoke with BAL/NORCO technician in Elkhart, IN. My concerns/instincts about jacking the NORCO NXG frame were correct. He told me that many users mistakenly treat this frame like other I-beam and box channel chassis, and it is a "mistake" to do so. The frame is designed for ultralights, and it is designed very differently from traditional coach frames. Therefore, it requires some special handling.

The tech told me that the frame should not be engaged with a bottle jack. There is only 1"(+) of a lip to engage the jack (depends on model). He said that the frame's channel depth is not sufficient for jacking, and this will likely bend the frame at the location or potentially cause more structural tweaks and damage to the frame or even the coach's walls.

He told me that when they (NORCO techs) work on the coaches, they locate a crossmember as far away from windows or slide outs as possible; using two floor jacks (one on each side of the coach), they place a support across the coach under the crossmember. He said that he uses a 2x6 for the support under the crossmember. The 2x6 support should extend 4-6" beyond each side of the unit. For instance, an 8' TT would call for a 9'(+/-) support to span the frame and have the protrusion on each end. He also said if you can get a crossmember located near or at an outrigger that is ideal but not necessary.

Once jacked, he said to place jack stands with a decent block (4x4) on them under the wall frame. However, he reiterated several times to place them away from slide outs and windows as much as possible. It is important to place them under as much uninterrupted wall as possible (obvious for strength, integrity, and minimize potential for damage).

An additional reason for the crossmember support engagement is the frame's huck bolt design. It is built using huck bolts rather than welds. The huck bolts are extremely strong, and their strength plays a big part in the NXG frame's ability to be lightweight and made with somewhat narrow C-channel. The flip of that is the frame cannot be handled like a welded I-beam or box frame.

Finally, he told me that jacking directly under the leaf spring mounts on the axle is okay, but it is not best, and it will not work for all jobs. And since the axles are often under a slide out, it is not the best place to put the jack. Our axles are right under our slide out. He is sending me a build sheet for my frame. You can submit your BAL/NORCO model number to get one. I hope this helps. I am thinking a lot more clearly about jacking my ultralight TT off of the ground.

On a side note (for what it's worth), he told me that among their many customers, they rarely have issues with Jayco and Keystone units because the two companies make additional enhancements to the NXG frames and the frames' connections to the rest of the coach. I know Jayco uses extra outriggers and connects/integrates the a-frame inside the chassis. That's good to hear! Safe Happy Jacking!

[JHerzog]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

I made a new thread for this to clarify and isolate the matter:

Just spoke with BAL/NORCO technician in Elkhart, IN. My concerns/instincts about jacking the NORCO NXG frame were correct. He told me that many users mistakenly treat this frame like other I-beam and box channel chassis, and it is a "mistake" to do so. The frame is designed for ultralights, and it is designed very differently from traditional coach frames. Therefore, it requires some special handling.

The tech told me that the frame should not be engaged with a bottle jack. There is only 1"(+) of a lip to engage the jack (depends on model). He said that the frame's channel depth is not sufficient for jacking, and this will likely bend the frame at the location or potentially cause more structural tweaks and damage to the frame or even the coach's walls.

He told me that when they (NORCO techs) work on the coaches, they locate a crossmember as far away from windows or slide outs as possible; using two floor jacks (one on each side of the coach), they place a support across the coach under the crossmember. He said that he uses a 2x6 for the support under the crossmember. The 2x6 support should extend 4-6" beyond each side of the unit. For instance, an 8' TT would call for a 9'(+/-) support to span the frame and have the protrusion on each end. He also said if you can get a crossmember located near or at an outrigger that is ideal but not necessary.

Once jacked, he said to place jack stands with a decent block (4x4) on them under the wall frame. However, he reiterated several times to place them away from slide outs and windows as much as possible. It is important to place them under as much uninterrupted wall as possible (obvious for strength, integrity, and minimize potential for damage).

An additional reason for the crossmember support engagement is the frame's huck bolt design. It is built using huck bolts rather than welds. The huck bolts are extremely strong, and their strength plays a big part in the NXG frame's ability to be lightweight and made with somewhat narrow C-channel. The flip of that is the frame cannot be handled like a welded I-beam or box frame.

Finally, he told me that jacking directly under the leaf spring mounts on the axle is okay, but it is not best, and it will not work for all jobs. And since the axles are often under a slide out, it is not the best place to put the jack. Our axles are right under our slide out. He is sending me a build sheet for my frame. You can submit your BAL/NORCO model number to get one. I hope this helps. I am thinking a lot more clearly about jacking my ultralight TT off of the ground.

On a side note (for what it's worth), he told me that among their many customers, they rarely have issues with Jayco and Keystone units because the two companies make additional enhancements to the NXG frames and the frames' connections to the rest of the coach. I know Jayco uses extra outriggers and connects/integrates the a-frame inside the chassis. That's good to hear! Safe Happy Jacking!

I had not seen any jacking warnings when I had my new tires put on at Discount Tires. I saw TT at this store every time I went by there so felt they had experience. My White Hawk has same frame. It took them less than 30 minutes to do all 4 tires and the spare. The jacked all 4 tires off the ground at the same time with TT hooked to TV and the jacks were on the axles. My slide is over the axels as well. I noticed this quote from the reps response:
"Finally, he told me that jacking directly under the leaf spring mounts on the axle is okay, but it is not best, and it will not work for all jobs. And since the axles are often under a slide out, it is not the best place to put the jack"

I have traveled several times since the tire change and have not had any issues with the axels or any issues with the frame. Looking at my frame I do not see a good place to jack on the frame so not sure what else you could do. This is just an FYI that not knowing any better jacking on the axels for a very short period did not seem to do any harm.

[FeatherFam]

I think that jacking under the leaf axle mounts is very common. If the jack is placed under the mount and not the axle tube itself, it will not likely hurt anything. The NORCO technician gave be the "best practices" approach that they use when jacking for a variety of jobs, especially jobs that require getting the weight off of the suspension.

[homer1959]

Its a stupid trailer not a piano !!! My God its complicated to change a tire here .... just dont jack under the axle rignt in the middle to lift both side at the same time and you are good to go.... unbelievable...

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by homer1959

Its a stupid trailer not a piano !!! My God its complicated to change a tire here .... just dont jack under the axle rignt in the middle to lift both side at the same time and you are good to go.... unbelievable...

As previously stated more than once, this is not about changing a tire. The jacking described by NORCO is for jobs that require getting all of the weight off of the suspension, like removing leaf springs or the axles. Changing a tire can be done with a jack under the leaf mounts or an Anderson jack type of product. Jacking under the axle mounts or using an Anderson Rapid Jack does not relieve the weight off of the suspension, only the tire. I do not understand why that is so hard to believe or understand. Take it easy, man.

[homer1959]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

As previously stated more than once, this is not about changing a tire. The jacking described by NORCO is for jobs that require getting all of the weight off of the suspension, like removing leaf springs or the axles. Changing a tire can be done with a jack under the leaf mounts or an Anderson jack type of product. Jacking under the axle mounts or using a Rapid Jack does not relieve the weight off of the suspension, only the tire. I do not understand why that is so hard to believe or understand. Take it easy, man.

Its the numerous post about jackin that got me going.... man o man I cant count the amount of post about where to place the jack if you end up with a flat

And I dont know for you, but it is pretty obvious to me that its a very bad idea to jack under an axle to change spring shackels and bushing ...if one have the intention to do that I would suggest to this guy to pay to get the job done before spending his summer in intensive care :-)

[FeatherFam]

Very true, but I do enjoy working on all of my vehicles, including a classic truck that DW and I restored. It is not a big deal for us to replace and or rebuild a vehicle's suspension - It's my hobby! I do all of the work that I can and avoid dealers and service departments at this stage in my life. Someday, I will have to find another hobby and trust others for our vehicle care, but I do it myself for most everything right now. I find it gratifying and enjoyable.

I am planning on upgrading our Jay Feather's shackle bushings and upgrading the Equa-Flex to the MorRide 3000 product. When I do this, I will need to elevate the TT and remove the weight off of the suspension. I could tell from the NORCO frame's design that I would not be able to use a jack in the usual way (like I would with an I-beam or box frame). That is why I contacted NORCO, and they confirmed my thought that the frame's design and construction has specific requirements for such projects.

Of course, I use Anderson Rapid Jacks for simple projects like changing tires and servicing the brakes and hubs :-)

[homer1959]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

Very true, but I do enjoy working on all of my vehicles, including a classic truck that DW and I restored. It is not a big deal for us to replace and or rebuild a vehicle's suspension - It's my hobby! I do all of the work that I can and avoid dealers and service departments at this stage in my life. Someday, I will have to trust others for our vehicle care, but I do it myself for most everything right now. I find it gratifying and enjoyable.

I am planning on upgrading our Jay Feather's shackle bushings and upgrading the Equa-Flex to the MorRide 3000 product. When I do this, I will need to elevate the TT and remove the weight off of the suspension. I could tell from the NORCO frame's design that I would not be able to use a jack in the usual way (like I would with an I-beam or box frame). That is why I contacted NORCO, and they confirmed my thought that the frame's design and construction has specific requirements for such projects.

Of course, I use Anderson Rapid Jacks for simple projects like changing tires and servicing the brakes and hubs.

Good luck with that project man !! That must be fun. Enjoy now while you can Remember they might find a way to use cardboard for their next trailer frame design...

[FeatherFam]

Lol - I think they have the plans on the board as we speak!
DW and I just finished insulating and carpeting our storage compartments. What a bunch of cheap junk we found! But we made some pretty cool fixes to them and now we have "Prevost" storage compartments!