Lithium battery in the Jay Feather Micro’s?

[TomC_AZ]

Yea the value is usually one of the reasons. The other is to have it closer to an inverter. As the shorter the electrical runs from the battery the smaller and more efficient the wire is. Also unlike lead acid or agm they do not vent any gases so they are safe inside. It also helps when you have ones that may not have the low temp cut off for charging.

I have a cheap one that is in my tongue area. Honestly that one battery handles most of what we need. With the hybrid truck though you don’t even need a generator which is nice. I believe that has 7kwh of battery or more of battery in it.

As for “credit” toward another one in the future maybe. It depends on what you get and what you plan to end up with. I chose one that I knew I would replace when going bigger. Some things need tkk on be kept in mind when adding more batteries. With led acid or agm they need to all be of the same age and size. With LiFePo4 they can be of different age but should be similar in charge current and ability to push the same continuous amount of amps out. Lithium have a battery management system (BMS) that help make them compatible with each other. you don’t want to put a battery that can do 200amps continuous with one that can only do say 80 or 100amps. You can easily fry the one with lower capabilities. That also can turn into a fire hazard. But if all things are equal it does not matter what mfg or age when adding new lithium to each other.

[Larry Mac]

Thanks again!

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by Larry Mac

Is the reason people have mentioned that inside Lithium storage because of the extreme value of those systems leading to vandals and thief’s if left in the normal battery compartment behind the propane outside?

Not Tom, just my thoughts, I'm ready to be corrected.

I loved the idea of Lithium batteries. Light, lots of power, can run them way down, etc.
Theft wasn't my biggest concern, temperature and charging was. Mine wouldn't charge below freezing, and to try and charge below freezing will damage them, this I learned from the company, which I found out after purchase. I didn't do my homework on this. I could have put a battery warmer on them, but what does the warmer run from? In my case,the batteries of course, unless you are plugged in all the time for the battery warmer. Running battery warmers off the batteries didn't make sense. My solar "2 panels @190 watts each" would not power the battery warmers anyway. But I live up in Michigan's U.P. where it's extremely cold and usually cloudy in the winter.

Maybe someone can make sense out of this post, I'm not good at putting my thoughts down. Thanks

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

Not Tom, just my thoughts, I'm ready to be corrected.

I loved the idea of Lithium batteries. Light, lots of power, can run them way down, etc.
Theft wasn't my biggest concern, temperature and charging was. Mine wouldn't charge below freezing, and to try and charge below freezing will damage them, this I learned from the company, which I found out after purchase. I didn't do my homework on this. I could have put a battery warmer on them, but what does the warmer run from? In my case,the batteries of course, unless you are plugged in all the time for the battery warmer. Running battery warmers off the batteries didn't make sense. My solar "2 panels @190 watts each" would not power the battery warmers anyway. But I live up in Michigan's U.P. where it's extremely cold and usually cloudy in the winter.

Maybe someone can make sense out of this post, I'm not good at putting my thoughts down. Thanks

I also use Lifepo4 batteries but here in Texas I am not overly concerned with charging them in below freezing temperatures. However, I did consider a couple of options in case I decided to do some winter RV'ing, one being to keep them inside the RV where freezing conditions are not a concern (at least not while I am RV'ing), or use a battery heating pad which Amazon sells and only uses 60 watts (per battery) which means that one of your solar panels should have plenty enough power to warm up two Lifepo4 batteries with power to spare. My plan though was that I would use the generator or shore power first to warm up the batteries and then charge them, although I haven't worried with purchasing a battery warmer but one day, I may. ~CA

[TomC_AZ]

Yooper, actually the heating pad can be powered by the battery itself. That is exactly what many battery mfg's do with the internal heaters that they offer on some of their products, Battle Born does this, Ampere Time also does this on some of there newer/more expensive (still cheaper than BB) batteries, those also have the low cut off along with the heating pads.

The battery is still usable down past -4f internal temp (again not air temp). Basically the heater would need to have some sensor that would kick it on at a specific temp (some MPPT's can do this for you). Then it will just use some of its own power to warm itself allowing it to be charged via solar or generator or shore power.

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

Yooper, actually the heating pad can be powered by the battery itself. That is exactly what many battery mfg's do with the internal heaters that they offer on some of their products, Battle Born does this, Ampere Time also does this on some of there newer/more expensive (still cheaper than BB) batteries, those also have the low cut off along with the heating pads.

The battery is still usable down past -4f internal temp (again not air temp). Basically the heater would need to have some sensor that would kick it on at a specific temp (some MPPT's can do this for you). Then it will just use some of its own power to warm itself allowing it to be charged via solar or generator or shore power.

Thank you. This helped me to understand how these work. When spring comes I”ll be looking into this further. I do want lithium batteries.

[ARoamer]

A previous post regarding lithium battery heaters-

DIY Lithium Battery Heater Setup
Thought I'd share this if anyone is interested in keeping their lithium batteries warm. Eventually headed for warmer climates, I wanted a way to keep my batteries functioning in the meantime. Now that it's been around 18-20 degrees (Ugh!) a few days I have been able to get an idea of how my DIY 12v lithium battery heater setup has been working. Current draw is .55A for each pad and they seem to be working nicely. Batteries are wrapped with reflective foam core insulation. Set thermostat at 2c, (35.6F) batteries have never gone below that so far. You probably could stick the pads directly on the battery case as the pads do not get hot enough to melt anything. I stuck 3 pads evenly spaced on a aluminum sheet and set my 3 batteries on that sheet trying to get more of an even heating. With pads wired in parallel at 1.65A draw, my 300AH battery bank would "theoretically" run the heaters for 4.5 days continuously, but the thermostat cycles as needed. My flat mounted roof solar panels (640 watts) keep up with the heaters fine even though they are severely de-rated by Michigan's low sun angle and cloudy days. Side note- cleaning snow off of solar panels on a 5th wheel roof is a PITA. I've probably got around $40 into this, enough for 3- 100ah batteries, but I had some of the items.-

Facon 12V 7.5 Watt Pipe Elbow Heater Pad 3" x 13" $16.88 (amazon)
W1209 12V -50-110°C Digital Thermostat Temperature Control Switch Sensor Module $5.95 (e-bay)
Fuse holder with 5 amp fuse and a few feet of wire.
1/8" aluminum plate
Supershield Reflective Foam Core Pipe Duct Wrap Insulation 6" x 25' Roll $7.77 (amazon)

[LineG]

We have the same issue, we have a 1.5 year old rv, 212qc. It is written on the door that the wfco is lithium compatible, but it is not. We get 80% charge as well. I phoned where we purchased the RV and the technician told us a lithium battery should not be charged at 100%, my partner was saying he was wrong. The dealer even told us a lithium battery could be damaged if charge at 100%. That didn’t make much sense to me. Maybe the guy I was talking to was new. But what he told me seems to be wrong.
So in reality, Jayco is selling us RVs , claiming they will be compatible if we change to lithium but it is not,
That is wrong in my opinion, isn’t it? They should say the truth and it is that it is not compatible with lithium.
Not impressed.

[RogerR]

[QUOTE=LineG;1136220]We have the same issue, we have a 1.5 year old rv, 212qc. It is written on the door that the wfco is lithium compatible, but it is not. We get 80% charge as well. I phoned where we purchased the RV and the technician told us a lithium battery should not be charged at 100%, my partner was saying he was wrong "


I agree that the lithium battery should be charged to 100%. My older Wifco will pull it up to 80% and then very slowly go up from there over 2 or 3 days. But after I added solar and an MPPT I just shut that down as I don't need it.


My thought from prior posts is that on some Wifcos there is a lithium switch hid away somewhere. Have you contacted Wifco and asked if yours is lithium capable and how to change it over??



My MPPT required me to set the type of battery to get the correct charge voltage and I assume the Wifco has the same need to be reset to lithium.

[TomC_AZ]

On the WFCO power centers that are Lithium capable there is either a small switch on the 12v side of the power center (were the fuses are) or its Auto Detected. Look at the model number of your power center to confirm if its compatible with being able to charge 100%.

The model number with a switch will end in LIS the auto detect will end with AD. Anything else means its not lithium, but will still charge them. I have the LIS one and it works great. Others who have the AD may say they dont, however from what I have seen/read you just need to leave it on there as the power center will "learn" your battery type and it might not fully charge it the first few times.

As RogerR said even if not it will charge to 100% when hooked up to shore or a generator. The solar (if you have it) will top it off to 100 if there is good sun.

[LineG]

We haven’t contacted Wfco and it is a great idea. We check for a switch and didn’t found any. It is not ending by AD, nor LIS. I will see what they say.

We have solar and it gets it to 100% with solar but we are very often in rain so solar wouldn’t help. It is why we want to get it working properly.
Thanks for your reply.
L

[LineG]

It says on the lid that it is compatible with lithium and that it is auto detect. We will see in the next days if it is learning, we just went and checked but we didn’t see any switches.
We will see what wfco says.
Thanks you for you help.
L

[TomC_AZ]

Since its an auto detecting type it will not have any switches. Keep if plugged in for a couple of days if you can, I would also suggest draining the battery so that it is at say 70-50% so that it will actually give the charger a slightly lower voltage. Unplug the trailer and then say run the lights and what ever else you can to drain the battery some then plug back in and see what it does. While lithium batteries are really constant on their voltage it does drop a bit as they are used.

Also what batteries do you have? Do you have a shunt to see what their charge is or do they have Bluetooth connection to check? If you are trying to go off any other method it will not be accurate.

[DonBr]

I don't know what model Jayco puts in a 212qc, but for the Micros it is an 8735. As shown in the picture the non-lithium will say 8735P. I don't think that Jayco used any of the switched lithium versions, as they were produced only for a very short time. The auto-detect would say 8735AD.

It has long been wondered how a controller can tell if it is attached to a lithium. There is also anecdotal evidence that it only goes into lithium mode if the batteries are substantially discharged, when it would put out 14+ volts regardless of what battery was connected to it. In other words, it might not quite be snake oil, but close.

[colby]

Originally Posted by LineG

It says on the lid that it is compatible with lithium and that it is auto detect. We will see in the next days if it is learning, we just went and checked but we didn’t see any switches.
We will see what wfco says.
Thanks you for you help.
L

Is there a green or blue LED light behind on the board? You should see it when the door is open

[TomC_AZ]

LineG watch this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MA5lKMf9A&t=521s