lithium ion battery on humminbird

[thv]

anybody tried uograde to lithium ion battery on hummingbirds. does the battery monitir still work with lithium ion batteries

[BudMor]

When you say monitor you are stating a device to just monitor the charge voltage or are you stating the battery charger maintainer in the system.

While you can in fact charge a lithium ion 12 volt battery setup with a standard 12 volt lead acid battery charger you should not maintain a lithium battery with such charger.

Can I charge my lithium battery with a lead acid charger? - Enerdrive Pty Ltd

https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithi...acement-units/

[BuckeyeHB]

Did you upgrade to lithium? I have a Hummingbird 17RK. I am considering Lithium power station with solar panel charge. Jackery is the front runner.

[MrKABC]

What about one of these? This is my battery charger and it would be maintaining the Lithium one when I get it.

https://www.zentiz.com/schumacher-sc...harger-review/

Schumacher SC-1200A/CA SpeedCharge 12Amp 6/12V Fully Automatic Battery Charger

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

What about one of these? This is my battery charger and it would be maintaining the Lithium one when I get it.

https://www.zentiz.com/schumacher-sc...harger-review/

Schumacher SC-1200A/CA SpeedCharge 12Amp 6/12V Fully Automatic Battery Charger

I would consider changing out the cheap WFCO converter that your trailer likely came with for a 4-stage Progressive Dynamics or Boondocker model that will include the capability to charge multiple battery types including Lithium. The units are designed to slide right in where your existing WFCO converter is installed and run ~$150-200. There are 3 AC wires and 2 DC wires to connect and your done. Everything will work as it originally did except you have expanded charging capabilities.

Determine which WFCO unit is installed in your trailer. As I recall our 195RB had a WFCO 8935. Then go to Best Converter and look at either Boondocker Mainboard Replacements or Progressive Dynamics 4600 series Upgrade kits to see if there is a direct swap-out replacement. I'm in the process of doing this with our new ORV in preparation for a battery upgrade. I've been leaning towards the Progressive Dynamics as I like the optional remote pendant that lets you interact with the Charge Wizard without having to access the front panel.

[MrKABC]

@ttavasc great advice. I'll find where my inverter is. This is what I am looking for?

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...r-4600-series/

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

@ttavasc great advice. I'll find where my inverter is. This is what I am looking for?

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...r-4600-series/

Yes - those were the ones I was thinking of. However, I poked around in my Photos library and found a pic of the power center from my 2015 195RB and it had a WFCO 8735, not the 8935 I thought it had. If they are still using the 8735 then swapping out the converter alone doesn't look like it's possible. You'd have to swap out the entire power center for something like the PD4135 or a Boondocker 1235PC.

Before you make any changes though, you may want to inquire further about your specific converter. I looked around on the Battleborn site as well and found a page that details which existing charging devices are known to work with their LiFePO4 batteries and WFCO is noted as working. Here is the link to that page -> Battleborn Charger Compatibility Table

The cost of the Lithium's is still a bit high for the amount of off-grid camping we do so I'm looking at some quality AGM's such as Trojan SAGM 06 220's. However, on these smaller trailers where keeping tabs on your loaded weight is more important they make a lot of sense. I had added a second Group 24 battery to our 195RB but we had to be careful how we packed as we were always running at over 3700 loaded trailer weight, just below the GVWR.

[Allen_C]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

The cost of the Lithium's is still a bit high for the amount of off-grid camping we do so I'm looking at some quality AGM's such as Trojan SAGM 06 220's. However, on these smaller trailers where keeping tabs on your loaded weight is more important they make a lot of sense. I had added a second Group 24 battery to our 195RB but we had to be careful how we packed as we were always running at over 3700 loaded trailer weight, just below the GVWR.

A pair of those Trojans will cost about $700 while you can buy a 250ah LiFePo4 for $1000 with it's own charger: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07W5...sin_title&th=1, with longer life, double the useable ah and less weight!

[MrKABC]

Battle Born 12v 100AH with Built-in BMS - 3000-5000 Deep Cycle Rechargeable Battery - Perfect for RV/Camper, Marine, Overland/Van, and Off Grid Applications. 100 amp continuous output with a 200 amp surge output - 30 seconds 1/2 second surge output for higher loads. 29 lbs.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX197GJ..._7mrhEbVMJY77G

Is the battery...

[Allen_C]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

Battle Born 12v 100AH with Built-in BMS - 3000-5000 Deep Cycle Rechargeable Battery - Perfect for RV/Camper, Marine, Overland/Van, and Off Grid Applications. 100 amp continuous output with a 200 amp surge output - 30 seconds 1/2 second surge output for higher loads. 29 lbs.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX197GJ..._7mrhEbVMJY77G

Is the battery...

Great battery, expensive price though! I like finding good value instead of paying premiums!

[Paulo19]

The YouTube Channel "DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse" has many helpful videos on batteries and solar systems. Personally, I have found it possible to boondock for many days with the standard lead-acid battery and a 200w solar panel (Dokio). For emergency heat, I use a Buddy propane heater and rely on USB-C rechargeable lights, ipad, speakers, fans, toothbrush etc. I really don't think you need hundreds of amp-hours in reserve just to run a microwave oven or hair dryer .

[seanreit]

Good value: https://amzn.to/2sUzQax
Better value: https://amzn.to/2sTHzpc

[Allen_C]

Originally Posted by seanreit

Good value: https://amzn.to/2sUzQax
Better value: https://amzn.to/2sTHzpc

Why do you list those in the order that you did? The Aims doesn't list their warranty and it's specs are no better than the other battery. Also, neither one had a better warranty and their cost for a 200ah is the same as the one I listed for 400ah and with a 3 yr warranty! Just wandering what your rationale is?

[seanreit]

Originally Posted by Allen_C

Why do you list those in the order that you did? The Aims doesn't list their warranty and it's specs are no better than the other battery. Also, neither one had a better warranty and their cost for a 200ah is the same as the one I listed for 400ah and with a 3 yr warranty! Just wandering what your rationale is?

In an earlier post you suggested that Battleborn was a "good" battery, but expensive price.

I suggested two alternatives that were "good" batteries, but less expensive. One of them over 25% less expensive for the same battery chemistry and rated capacity of the Battleborn that you yourself determined to be "good".

At the time of your determination of what was good, I only interpreted battery chemistry and price, so you are right, my suggestions did not include "warranty".

In my life, I have often overlooked warranty as being less important than other criteria for investing products that were important to me. In otherwords, if I rely on batteries to accomplish a task, and a year from now, said battery fails; I know myself, I am far more likely to immediately buy another battery, than to say, contact some random company and try to demand a replacement under warranty. That's just me, I promise I was not trying to impart my values on you by making the above recommendations.

Sean

[seanreit]

It just occurred to me that maybe Battleborn is charging more for the same capacity and battery chemistry as others because they have a 10 year warranty. But you suggested you would not be interested in paying a premium. I'm just trying to help man!

[Allen_C]

Originally Posted by seanreit

In an earlier post you suggested that Battleborn was a "good" battery, but expensive price.

I suggested two alternatives that were "good" batteries, but less expensive. One of them over 25% less expensive for the same battery chemistry and rated capacity of the Battleborn that you yourself determined to be "good".

At the time of your determination of what was good, I only interpreted battery chemistry and price, so you are right, my suggestions did not include "warranty".

In my life, I have often overlooked warranty as being less important than other criteria for investing products that were important to me. In otherwords, if I rely on batteries to accomplish a task, and a year from now, said battery fails; I know myself, I am far more likely to immediately buy another battery, than to say, contact some random company and try to demand a replacement under warranty. That's just me, I promise I was not trying to impart my values on you by making the above recommendations.

Sean

No worries and your explanation makes sense! Those are two alternatives among an ever growing see if LiFePo4 batteries!

Regarding warranty, I bought a new Jayco specifically for the 2yr warranty, instead of a used Jayco or another brand. Knowing these units are rolling earthquakes, it can take more than 12 months to uncover issues!

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by seanreit

Good value: https://amzn.to/2sUzQax
Better value: https://amzn.to/2sTHzpc

First off to the OP - The batteries that I'm referring to below are lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), which are not the same as Li-ion batteries.

The BattleBorn are less expensive than the "Good Quality" link.

For a couple hundred more you get a 10 year warranty instead of a two year warranty of the "Better Quality" linked.

IMO BattleBorn are worth the extra cost given their warranty, customer service and robust build quality. The other's may be built as well internally, but I am not 100% sure, I've seen inside the BB and it's well built.

[seanreit]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

First off to the OP - The batteries that I'm referring to below are lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), which are not the same as Li-ion batteries.

The BattleBorn are less expensive than the "Good Quality" link.

For a couple hundred more you get a 10 year warranty instead of a two year warranty of the "Better Quality" linked.

IMO BattleBorn are worth the extra cost given their warranty, customer service and robust build quality. The other's may be built as well internally, but I am not 100% sure, I've seen inside the BB and it's well built.

Ah, come on, not everyone, including you ONLY buys based on build quality, I'm not buying it

You must have missed the part of the thread where I said "That's just me, I promise I was not trying to impart my values on you by making the above recommendations."

Public Service Announcement:
I need to address the statement that the Battleborn are less expensive than the "good quality link". This is a common mistake. It has been at least 5 months since I posted that link. Anyone coming later should infer that at the time I posted that link, the prices were in line with what I said they were. In other words, less expensive. Going to that link took you to something called "available sellers". When something is being "sold and shipped" by amazon, there is a buy link and generally speaking, a somewhat fair price. But what happens when Amazon runs out of the product at that price? That's when "3rd party sellers" come in. And 3rd party sellers are able to charge any price they want as long as it's not determined to be "price gouging". So what I can tell you is that that product was available at a price that was significantly better pricing than battleborn at the time I posted the link. But months later, it is not available from amazon, it's available from a 3rd party seller who is charging more, because they can. I'm sure this is a common miss, I only know it because I am on Amazon buying stuff probably more than average.

I've been a federal government construction contractor my entire career. One of the most important fundamentals of that business is the "as or equal to" clause of a federal contract. In part that means that if another product meets the salient characteristics of the specified product I can use it regardless of the name on the product. A lithium (iron phosphate, or ion, or any other) battery has battery chemistry, voltage, terminals, charging and discharging capability, capacity, etc. The fact that it says battleborn, duracell, or any other name is NOT a salient characteristic of lithium battery.
I have no problem if someone wants to pay more for something because of real or perceived value. But my suggestion remains not to get duped by name brands. I mean, I get it, nobody buys on price, if that were true we would all be driving Yugo’s, and that never happened. But we’re also not all driving Tesla’s as an example of something that might be “the best build quality”. (just an example, I’m not particularly a fan, but I'm there are those that believe).

[brwarrior]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

First off to the OP - The batteries that I'm referring to below are lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), which are not the same as Li-ion batteries.

The BattleBorn are less expensive than the "Good Quality" link.

For a couple hundred more you get a 10 year warranty instead of a two year warranty of the "Better Quality" linked.

IMO BattleBorn are worth the extra cost given their warranty, customer service and robust build quality. The other's may be built as well internally, but I am not 100% sure, I've seen inside the BB and it's well built.

The other thing to note is not all of these cheaper batteries have a BMS with low temp charging cutoff. If the battery falls to 32F (0C) they should not be charged. If you camp in freezing weather it's something to be aware of. The internal wiring of the batteries also sometimes leaves a bit to be desired. Watch some of Will Prowse's tear downs.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by brwarrior

The other thing to note is not all of these cheaper batteries have a BMS with low temp charging cutoff. If the battery falls to 32F (0C) they should not be charged. If you camp in freezing weather it's something to be aware of. The internal wiring of the batteries also sometimes leaves a bit to be desired. Watch some of Will Prowse's tear downs.

Yes, that and BattleBorn have more than 100Ah of capacity due to the reserve they build in. The tear down video you referenced tells a pretty good story.

I just finished installing our second BB.