Tongue damage?

[TWX]

After getting home I'm a little concerned about the angle of the tongue to the frame.






I attempted to take the photo as flat to the frame as I could, and as perpendicular to the trailer as possible. The angle I measured is around 1.3° different if the software I used as an angle-finder is right.


So how bad? I'm assuming that the prior trip rather than this trip was when I overstressed the weight distribution hitch, and I think I even knew when I did it. This time I noticed it because of the recent wheel and tire change which kicked up the ride height around 2" from the axle to the ground, so with the trailer sitting so high it was more obvious.


I'm assuming that I need to, at a minimum, adjust the weight-distribution tongue attachments on the trailer, to reduce the pressure on them a bit, any other suggestions?

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by TWX

So how bad? I'm assuming that the prior trip rather than this trip was when I overstressed the weight distribution hitch, and I think I even knew when I did it. This time I noticed it because of the recent wheel and tire change which kicked up the ride height around 2" from the axle to the ground, so with the trailer sitting so high it was more obvious.


I'm assuming that I need to, at a minimum, adjust the weight-distribution tongue attachments on the trailer, to reduce the pressure on them a bit, any other suggestions?

Does that rig call for a WDH?...Some specifically say don't use one.

[TWX]

I don't know, bought the trailer used and this is what the previous owner who bought it new had with it.

[Jagiven]

I cannot tell from these images. I recommend crawling under the tt in the area of the tongue, and look for wrinkled metal.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by TWX

I don't know, bought the trailer used and this is what the previous owner who bought it new had with it.

I'd contact JAYCO to be sure it's OK...

https://www.jayco.com/contact-towable-service/

[Jayhawk 29]

Did you adjust the main hitch location on your shank to compensate for the additional height? I looked at the photos a bit closer and its hard to tell if your frame is bent.

But it looks like what you are seeing might be that the new height has modified and increased the tongue weight, coupled with your hitch and ball is still in the original location. Short of wrinkling metal, I would unhook and level your body of the camper on as flat and level surface as possible.

Then measure the height to the ground in the rear, and then the front of the camper. Then measure your A-frame before it goes to the tongue area to the ground and then measure the back of the a frame portion before it goes into the camper frame and see if you have a measurable difference in the two areas.

If the A frame portion is bent, it will show up there.

[gunafulltime]

What type of WDH is it, and what is its weight rating?

[gunafulltime]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk 29

Did you adjust the main hitch location on your shank to compensate for the additional height? I looked at the photos a bit closer and its hard to tell if your frame is bent.

But it looks like what you are seeing might be that the new height has modified and increased the tongue weight, coupled with your hitch and ball is still in the original location. Short of wrinkling metal, I would unhook and level your body of the camper on as flat and level surface as possible.

Then measure the height to the ground in the rear, and then the front of the camper. Then measure your A-frame before it goes to the tongue area to the ground and then measure the back of the a frame portion before it goes into the camper frame and see if you have a measurable difference.

I agree.

[JFlightRisk]

If your trailer has more ground clearance now after your mod to the wheels, it puts more pressure on the WDH bars and that can be a concern. It may help to re-do the WDH set up including ball head height and maybe check if your hitch ball angle is back too far. Be advised that straightening it up some will affect how much weight is transferred to the front axle.

[TWX]

Thanks all.


I will find out if the 174BH should even have a WDH or not. The truck is on the heavy side for a 'mid size' being a crew cab longbed at around 5100# with the camper shell for what it's worth.


Unfortunately examining the underside of the trailer frame will be a challenge, there's some heavy corrugated plastic covering the underside and I expect that there's insulation above the plastic, as spray-in insulation is poking down through openings in the plastic in places. Since the spray-in insulation is starting to turn to powder I may just need to remove it and apply something different anyway so I guess this is an excuse to open it up.



The WDH is a Husky 32215, for tongue weight 400# to 600#, trailers up to 6000#. Adjustments include being able to pitch the head on the drawbar which in-turn would adjust the angles of the sprung-bars, adjustment of the height of the brackets where the sprung-bars seat on either side of the tongue, or adjustment of the height of the head on the drawbar. For that last adjustment, I'm attempting to avoid making it where I can't open the tailgate all the way with the hitch on and trailer hooked up.



Even if I can do without the WDH, with the extended drawbar I expect I should still have some sway-control.


I had a fair amount of weight in the bed, but no more than we would reasonably expect to have on any given camping trip. Due to the extended drawbar we don't put anything in the front overhead compartment while driving, instead packing that stuff around the dinette near the axle. I probably do need to go through what we're bringing along in the under-bed storage. The factory position of the 30 gallon water tank is all the way forward too, but we only had it around 2/5 full so we'd have water to use for the sink and toilet while driving, but I didn't drive with it completely full this trip.


Obviously lead acid battery and 30 gallon propane cylinder are on the tongue, and since I match the truck for the wheel bolt pattern there's no spare on the back at the moment. I have been considering installing a shelf on the back of the trailer for a small generator, but having seen pictures of trailers and RVs with their rear bumpers ripped off I wouldn't want to put a shelf on unless I can go back to the frame itself rather than just on the 4" square tube at the back.

[Jayhawk 29]

I wouldn't want to put a shelf on unless I can go back to the frame itself rather than just on the 4" square tube at the back.

Some of the older TTs I have owned had 6" I beam main frames and four inch sewer hose tubing. I made a bike rack and transferred the load across the entire structure and used the add on receivers in three locations. On the six frame I cut the bottom end off the frame with a sawzall and used the four inch receivers and the matching bolts. I do not trust the tubing. This setup secures the setup. Of course there are hitch receiver brackets that's adjustable depending on your frame width and will go across and bolt to the two main frame and this lets you use a single mounting location in the center thats structural too.

[TWX]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk 29

Some of the older TTs I have owned had 6" I beam main frames and four inch sewer hose tubing. I made a bike rack and transferred the load across the entire structure and used the add on receivers in three locations. On the six frame I cut the bottom end off the frame with a sawzall and used the four inch receivers and the matching bolts. I do not trust the tubing. This setup secures the setup. Of course there are hitch receiver brackets that's adjustable depending on your frame width and will go across and bolt to the two main frame and this lets you use a single mounting location in the center thats structural too.

I have one of those installed sideways to act as an umbrella holder on the door-side of the travel trailer. I was wondering if modifying one to have longer flat plates that sandwich the trailer frame forward of the sewer hose square tube would be enough.


Been experimenting with aluminum welding, perhaps I'll see if I can concoct something along these lines.

[Jayhawk 29]

Jayco installs a lighter weight receiver on the corner of their sewer tube , turned sideways towards the curb, that is setup for blackstone type grills mounted on a flat plate for support. They provide a square tubing to hold the setup. But the receivers that you buy are much heavier steel with a decent flat plate that is fastened with the bolts on the opposing side of the receiver.

[Glamper64]

I think your WDH is over rated and probably not needed for your small trailer. Especially when you start up a steep hill that initial angle change puts a lot of pressure on the tongue frame because of the WDH bars...they're trying to keep everything straight almost lifting the trailer causing potential bendable pressure? I would try towing without a WDH and not worry about the tongue frame unless there is a significant kink on the top of the frame and check bottom for signs of damage/hairline crack...maybe weld a steel scab around the kink if concerned. If sway is an issue get a light duty hitch with one removable sway bar.

[TowPro]

if you raised the RV axle 2" higher with new tires your going to need to raise the ball on the receiver up 2" to keep the trailer level. Not sure what all that other stuff is I see in the picture, it appears you might not be able to raise the ball height. and I would not recommend using weight distribution try to compensate for a truck that is sagging in the rear from weight in the bed. They are designed to accommodate tong weight, not bed weight. For bed weight you would need something on the truck to compensate. an example might be Timbren bags or sumo bags.

[Glamper64]

Just adding to my post @14...when the WD bars are attached are they fairly level? It looks like the L brackets on the frame are high in the pic? When/if the truck and trailer are level as they should be when all hooked up, the bars should also be level or down slightly on the tongue side. There should be quite a bit of pressure on the bars when installed correctly...if not you don't need then Imo. In other words...when you're hitched up without the bars attached, the front of the trailer and the back of your truck should be a little low. You should have to lower the tongue jack while hooked up to the truck to raise the setup slightly higher than level then you can easily install the bars. When you raise the jack the set up is lowered and level and the weight is distributed to the front of the truck and back of trailer. So when not using a WDH your ball height keeps the setup level and maybe as mentioned above, air bags might be needed but I doubt it.

[kblast523]

Originally Posted by Glamper64

I think your WDH is over rated and probably not needed for your small trailer. Especially when you start up a steep hill that initial angle change puts a lot of pressure on the tongue frame because of the WDH bars....

My experience with this series of Jayco with a similar hitch , size of tow vehicle is far more important that the hitch rating. I pulled a 2012 JaySwift SLX 185rb (same frame/suspension) with a 2007 F-150 4.2l with a 5 speed manual AND an UltraFAB wd hitch rated at 10,000 lbs. Traveled some horrendous roads in New Mexico and Oklahoma, traded for a 2009 Ford Flex (factory tow pkg) and more bad roads in Oklahoma, Kansas and Colorado, then a 2015 F-150 2.7eb. Never had a single problem with any of the underpinnings of that rig. Traded it in for a 2016 FR Salem 241QBXL kept the UltraFAB WD hitch and although it had a monster 10 inch frame under it, the 'tail wagged the dog' because the hitch was too close to the front trailer axle, and it was zero fun to drag around. Traded for my current tt, 2018 JayFeather 23 rl and switched to an Andersen hitch. Tow vehicle is now a 2018 Nissan Titan SV CC. Over the last six plus years I have dragged this rig to Arizona and back (2,100 mile round trip) four times, dragged it all over Texas and Oklahoma, worn out two sets of tires and learned way back when I owned my first F-150: ALWAYS enhance the suspension. Sumo Springs or Timbrens keep a large portion of weight transfer in the hitch, moves it to the rear axle. I'll never tow my vacation home, no matter how small, without weight distribution...

[TWX]

Originally Posted by TowPro

if you raised the RV axle 2" higher with new tires your going to need to raise the ball on the receiver up 2" to keep the trailer level. Not sure what all that other stuff is I see in the picture, it appears you might not be able to raise the ball height. and I would not recommend using weight distribution try to compensate for a truck that is sagging in the rear from weight in the bed. They are designed to accommodate tong weight, not bed weight. For bed weight you would need something on the truck to compensate. an example might be Timbren bags or sumo bags.

Truck should be good, it goes from raked to level. I previously added add-a-leafs and Timbren rubber springs that unloaded have around two inches clearance before engagement. Loaded and with the trailer, the Timbrens are not engaged under normal driving conditions.

Originally Posted by Glamper64

Just adding to my post @14...when the WD bars are attached are they fairly level? It looks like the L brackets on the frame are high in the pic? When/if the truck and trailer are level as they should be when all hooked up, the bars should also be level or down slightly on the tongue side. There should be quite a bit of pressure on the bars when installed correctly...if not you don't need then Imo. In other words...when you're hitched up without the bars attached, the front of the trailer and the back of your truck should be a little low. You should have to lower the tongue jack while hooked up to the truck to raise the setup slightly higher than level then you can easily install the bars. When you raise the jack the set up is lowered and level and the weight is distributed to the front of the truck and back of trailer. So when not using a WDH your ball height keeps the setup level and maybe as mentioned above, air bags might be needed but I doubt it.

I'll have to check. I had made adjustments in the past after I built a new hitch for the truck that tucks up in tight including installing the ball-head onto a longer 18" shank to clear the spare tire and jerry cans.


Due to a quirk of how the rear window on the truck and the front covered window on the trailer I am able to see how the two align, and this did not appear to change on this trip. If I did damage it at some point I don't think it was on this recent vacation. Very likely if I did the damage, it would have either been the very first time we took the truck out to go camping and went into the national forest and towed on forest-service roads, or when we visited the undeveloped Agua Fria National Monument, which has a very undulating road.


I have a couple of options for adjusting the height of the ball, but I need to confirm that this isn't going to run into the lowered tailgate. I can also look at the spring-bars and how much tension. I may have to perform adjustments to both.


Husky sells a spacer-washer that installs on the threaded shaft below the base of the towball, and I can see if I can modify where on the drawbar/shank the height, but the latter is a coarser adjustment.

[TWX]

I've been giving some thought to the situation with the tongue of the trailer, the weight distribution hitch, sway control, ride height, and a rake to the trailer as it sits when attached.



Had a moment to go take some pictures since the drawbar is still slotted into the receiver.


The "Head" on the Husky Centerline TS 32215 hitch with 2" ball:
In order to clear my spare tire carrier and jerry cans I'm running an 18" Equal-i-zer drawbar ("shank" in their terms) that I'd previously ordered.
There are six holes on the vertical part of the drawbar for adjusting the position of the head. Due to the Baja Edition trailer sitting so tall to begin with I was using the top position when the vertical bar is oriented down.


The Husky and the Equal-i-zer both use the same 1-1/4" holes on-centers.
The holes are slightly proud of 3/4", presumably so that bolts don't easily rust into place inside of the holes. Not that it matters much but that does mean that the web between the holes is a little under 1/2" thick.


I do not believe that there is room to reconfigure the Equal-i-zer drawbar to orient the vertical part upward without making changes, lowering the tailgate would hit it.


The ball is an 8000# 2" unit:
If what I found is correct, the 8000# ball uses a 1-1/4" shank to attach to the hitch head, and as it was supplied to me, uses a thick cut washer below the ball mount at the hitch head.



Right now I have basically 2-3/8" clearance to the tailgate when lowered:


If I continue to use the weight distribution features basically for sway-control and to try to reduce both rocking and swaying but with a little less pressure on the bars, I could look at a taller ball to avoid having to entirely reconfigure the geometry of the head on the drawbar. But I am constrained by the 2-3/8" space.


For what constitutes a taller ball, this is actually going to be a little difficult with a 1-1/4" ball mounting shank. A 1" shank is a lot more common. There are 1-1/8" shanks for pintle-ball hitches though, and there are some varying heights for those. I'd have to use a barrel shim to take up the space between the hole in the ball head to the shank. I would also have the luxury of using, or not, the spacer underneath of the ball and above the ball head.


There are also long shanks, so I could look at using a different spacer under the ball to get the height right, but I'm less wild about that.


The ball adjustment would only give me part of what I'd want to try to level out the trailer though. The Baja Edition trailer has rather tall forward spring perches welded on to the frame in front of the axle, I'm tempted to drill a new set of holes in those forward spring perches, to actually lower the frame down a little bit.
If I do that, I'm probably going to need to adjust or replace the bump-stops, they're already getting torn by the U-bolts/nuts.


I will of course also have to look at the aft shackles, and after measuring take care with the adjustments.


I only need to keep the larger 32' tires from hitting the wheel wells/openings. I don't mind if the tires tuck in so long as they have enough travel to be suspension. The small wheels/tires on the raised-up trailer looked kind of silly.


Either way, I have some work ahead of me to get the trailer to sit more level when it's attached to the truck and to reduce the angle/stress of the WDH if I continue to use it for sway/rocking. With how tall the trailer is I don't really want to do away with sway control.


In the past I had considered cutting off the bottom of the Equal-i-zer drawbar too, that still may be on the table. If I don't, I may look if I could somehow add a second ball head assembly that might let a lower-height trailer attach, but to this point I haven't needed to tow a flatbed trailer with the jerry cans and spare tire carrier installed, and I haven't towed a cargo trailer ever. We'll see. The weight savings might not be enough to justify the modification, but if might be helpful to not have that hanging down when going out into the boonies.

[Glamper64]

In my unprofessional opinion, I would have the ball angled down like you do but a little more, and just hook up the trailer without the bars and see how it looks as far as straight/level goes. When you get the truck and trailer slightly down at the hitch after adjustments, it's perfect. Put the bars in, they should be well angled down and below the L brackets on the frame. When you lift the bars in place they should be almost level, adjust L brackets if necessary. You should have to raise the truck and trailer while hooked up via jack to install the bars. When set up properly after trial and error, your rig should be level/straight.