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Old 05-23-2016, 09:02 AM   #1
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Autoformer, EMS, Proper Order, Weather Protection

Hey Gang,

Okay, so I've been thinking about this topic for easily over 2 years now on and off. What's the best way to order your electrical protection between the pedestal and the coach? How do you protect your various objects from theft. Some of them can get wet, some of them shouldn't.

Its enough to make your head spin.

I'm in the camp that believes a Autoformer is a must-have piece of kit. Low voltage will fry your motors and electronics, and camping in the heat w/o my air conditioner is just a no-go for my family. We're on vacation, we're going to enjoy all the amenities that our coach offers.

So - the question of sequence comes in. Autoformer --> EMS, or EMS --> Autoformer. There are valid reasons for both ways to order them.

The former allows for both items to do their jobs. The Autoformer boosts voltage, the EMS interrogates the power from the Autoformer and keeps your coach safe. The Autoformer has some pedestal checks in it, the EMS has them all. The coach has corrected voltage coming in and is protected from all the bad stuff. The downsides: The Autoformer takes the hit for a surge and must be sent back in for service. The Autoformer should probably be locked down to something so it doesn't walk, and Hughes advises you put a bucket over the AutoFormer if its raining. What a pain !

The latter allows your EMS to sit at the pedestal and the Autoformer can fit in your electrical bay if you have room. You still might want to lock the EMS up somehow, but the Autoformer is 'hidden'. The Autoformer still provides voltage correction down to the cut-out limit of your EMS. Your EMS provides the surge protection first, likely saving your Autoformer. If the Autoformer is in your electrical bay, you don't have to worry about securing it or the bucket. It's supposed to be able to 'breathe' so I always left the bay door cracked. Its not very hidden if the wind blows the right way and your bay door opens.

This works, but you don't get the full worth of the Autoformer. Like I said, there are many in both wiring camps. I was in the latter, but this year I find myself prepping to rig the former way.

So - my Autoformer goes first. I have a nice chain to lock it down, but frankly the bucket is a pain in the backside. Plus it calls attention to the unit, and I understand some parks don't allow Autoformers. What to do?

I'm thinking of taking my extra 25' cord and running it from the post to the Autoformer. I'll put the Autoformer under my coach, and chain it to the leaf spring of my rear wheels/axle. From there I'll take another run of cord and pull that up into my electrical bay where I'll have my portable EMS. EMS plugs directly into the coach.

The Autoformer is now 'covered', it can breathe, its presence is obscured, and its chained to the rig underneath.

Adding the first 25' run of cord from the pedestal to the Autoformer will net me a ~2v drop, nothing the Autoformer can't fix. If this works out well, I can always cut the 25' cord down and add new ends.

What do you guys think?
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:54 AM   #2
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Not the most popular topic I see ...
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:27 AM   #3
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I read your post yesterday and it seems you've done lots of thinking on the subject, so maybe no one can improve on it. For me, I had to find out what the Autoformer was. Never knew about them.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:45 AM   #4
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I too had to research what these devices were... its seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:49 AM   #5
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I too had to research what these devices were... its seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
I'm going to assume your're considering the Autoformer here and not the EMS. Most folks wouldn't be without a EMS.

If you ever camp anywhere there is low voltage, you'll understand the value of an Autoformer. Last year I was at a campground that had 100-102 volts coming off the pedestal. The campground was full and I had no recourse but to stay in the site I had booked. The Autoformer had me running at 110 - 112 volts all week. Without it, I would have been causing slow damage to my onboard electrical system and various motors (A/C, Microwave, etc.).
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Old 05-24-2016, 07:02 AM   #6
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I'm going to assume your're considering the Autoformer here and not the EMS. Most folks wouldn't be without a EMS.

If you ever camp anywhere there is low voltage, you'll understand the value of an Autoformer. Last year I was at a campground that had 100-102 volts coming off the pedestal. The campground was full and I had no recourse but to stay in the site I had booked. The Autoformer had me running at 110 - 112 volts all week. Without it, I would have been causing slow damage to my onboard electrical system and various motors (A/C, Microwave, etc.).
Yes, I permanently install a meter in our coach and just have never seen it happen. Not saying it can't. I spent a lot of time in India so my perception of the quality of our power grid has a different frame of reference than many.
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Old 05-24-2016, 07:19 AM   #7
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I currently only use an autoformer. It's stowed in the bay where the power cord goes. I cut off the existing cord and made it short enough that I could stow the autoformer under the MH if need be. I've seen posts like this previously and it seems like the best order would be the EMS to the post and then the autoformer. This would protect the autoformer but would result in loss of power earlier than the other way around. It's a tough call really.

FYI, I've also checked the temperature of the autoformer while stowed in the bay and it doesn't seem to generate much heat even when stepping up the voltage. So I'm considering it safe to stow in the bay for now.

My reason for going with an autoformer was the same as yours. Last year I was at several marginal voltage sites and damaging the AC was a real concern. I even fired up my generator at one point as the temps outside were over 100 and the voltage was down to 104.
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Old 05-24-2016, 07:30 AM   #8
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I'm going to have to pay more attention to this than I have. It's possible I may just not be aware of what is really happening under loads.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:03 AM   #9
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Proper order would be (from the power post) a surge suppressor... then an auto former... then an EMS... then power line to the coach.

Why? Auto formers have surge suppression in them (via MOVs only). If they are damaged in a surge, the entire unit must be sent back in for repair or replacement. A standard surge suppressor will protect the far more expensive autoformer.

If you run an EMS before the autoformer, your overall operating voltage is greatly diminished as the voltage monitor in the EMS will shut off before your autoformer can boost enough.


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Old 05-24-2016, 08:17 AM   #10
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Proper order would be (from the power post) a surge suppressor... then an auto former... then an EMS... then power line to the coach.

Why? Auto formers have surge suppression in them (via MOVs only). If they are damaged in a surge, the entire unit must be sent back in for repair or replacement. A standard surge suppressor will protect the far more expensive autoformer.

If you run an EMS before the autoformer, your overall operating voltage is greatly diminished as the voltage monitor in the EMS will shut off before your autoformer can boost enough.


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I suppose if you want the utmost in electrical protection you are correct. I had considered this, than I was wondering if I was going crazy on the topic.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #11
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Very interesting topic, folks. It's phunny because I have been thinking long and hard regarding this very topic right on up to preventing these high dollar items from growing legs and walking as well as the proper orientation of hook up from power post to unit. I like jopopsy's ideas regarding chaining the autoformer underneath at the axles which mitigates both water exposure and theft. J.Lockhart's hook up orientation is priceless in itself because I assume many do not follow such proper procedures.

My idea on the autoformer would be to take a tube of good ultra silicone and seal up the areas that are prone to water intrusion like where the case splits as well as where the cables enter and exit however, that still leaves the unit being in sight issue even if the unit is chained and locked near the power post.

Now, this to me is a possible bigger issue and such a possibility made me sick to my stomach if true. I provided a post on this topic awhile back and never got a response as of yet. Go to post #17 here: http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f5...a-35062-2.html

If the above post is true, I think we need to consider going with the 50A Technology Research voltage regulator model 10175 (made in China ). I also think those who happen to currently own the grey 50A autoformer made in the USA, should consider looking into this and if such is true, contact the manufacturer and see what they say. If the manufacturer has no credible response, I could assist in drawing up a commercial affidavit or administrative action to push them to answer. Hopefully, jopopsy and J.Lockhart can chime in on this matter. What do you all think?
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:38 AM   #12
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Very interesting topic, folks. It's phunny because I have been thinking long and hard regarding this very topic right on up to preventing these high dollar items from growing legs and walking as well as the proper orientation of hook up from power post to unit. I like jopopsy's ideas regarding chaining the autoformer underneath at the axles which mitigates both water exposure and theft. J.Lockhart's hook up orientation is priceless in itself because I assume many do not follow such proper procedures.

My idea on the autoformer would be to take a tube of good ultra silicone and seal up the areas that are prone to water intrusion like where the case splits as well as where the cables enter and exit however, that still leaves the unit being in sight issue even if the unit is chained and locked near the power post.

Now, this to me is a possible bigger issue and such a possibility made me sick to my stomach if true. I provided a post on this topic awhile back and never got a response as of yet. Go to post #17 here: http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f5...a-35062-2.html

If the above post is true, I think we need to consider going with the 50A Technology Research voltage regulator model 10175 (made in China ). I also think those who happen to currently own the grey 50A autoformer made in the USA, should consider looking into this and if such is true, contact the manufacturer and see what they say. If the manufacturer has no credible response, I could assist in drawing up a commercial affidavit or administrative action to push them to answer. Hopefully, jopopsy and J.Lockhart can chime in on this matter. What do you all think?
Be careful with the silicone; Hughes recommends you not futz w/ the holes around where the wire enters the unit; they are condensate drain holes.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:03 PM   #13
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Be careful with the silicone; Hughes recommends you not futz w/ the holes around where the wire enters the unit; they are condensate drain holes.
Thanks, Good to know regarding condensate drain holes. With that, your chain locked undercarriage location is the answer.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:12 PM   #14
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I run a Progressive Industries SSP-50X surge protector, then a Hughes 50A autoformer, then a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C.

If you note, the first two are "portable / non hard-wired" products. The reason I did this is that I wanted the freedom to plug-in / unplug devices as needed. I leave all plugged in 24/7 - but if one fails - pulling a device out and keeping the rest running is easy. I did this by cutting the main power line coming in and installing male and female 50A plugs.

One could argue the point that the plugs create resistance... and while true... I've run this setup for eight years through two units with no issue.

Also important to note, all my gear is mounted inside the unit to protect it from theft and weather.


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Old 05-24-2016, 12:14 PM   #15
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I run a Progressive Industries SSP-50X surge protector, then a Hughes 50A autoformer, then a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C.

If you note, the first two are "portable / non hard-wired" products. The reason I did this is that I wanted the freedom to plug-in / unplug devices as needed. I leave all plugged in 24/7 - but if one fails - pulling a device out and keeping the rest running is easy. I did this by cutting the main power line coming in and installing male and female 50A plugs.

One could argue the point that the plugs create resistance... and while true... I've run this setup for eight years through two units with no issue.

Also important to note, all my gear is mounted inside the unit to protect it from theft and weather.


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So YOU run: Post --> Cord --> Surge --> Autoformer --> EMS --> Cord --> Coach?
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:22 PM   #16
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I run a Progressive Industries SSP-50X surge protector, then a Hughes 50A autoformer, then a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C.

If you note, the first two are "portable / non hard-wired" products. The reason I did this is that I wanted the freedom to plug-in / unplug devices as needed. I leave all plugged in 24/7 - but if one fails - pulling a device out and keeping the rest running is easy. I did this by cutting the main power line coming in and installing male and female 50A plugs.

One could argue the point that the plugs create resistance... and while true... I've run this setup for eight years through two units with no issue.

Also important to note, all my gear is mounted inside the unit to protect it from theft and weather.


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Jeff, Unfortunately, it is the Hughs 50A autoformer that is referred to here: http://www.amazon.com/50-Amp-Autofor...ews/B00IYWZE6Q

Check out the rating titled: "Top Critical Review" That is where I pulled this from. I don't want to beat this topic to death however, I felt all should at least know of this potential and possibly fraudulent issue.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:39 PM   #17
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So YOU run: Post --> Cord --> Surge --> Autoformer --> EMS --> Cord --> Coach?


Yes. Though once inside the coach... the "cord" is the existing coach romex wiring with plugs installed...


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Old 05-24-2016, 01:45 PM   #18
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I did the 'Autoformer Install Kit' which was basically a 10 gauge 'whip' wired into the RV junction box where the original power cord was. On the original power cord, I have a female receptacle on it. So the Autoformer sits in between them typically. I'm just trying to afford the most protection w/ the most flexibility w/o having my gear grow legs.

It seems the 'best' way to do that would be to use my idea in post 1 w/ the added regular surge protector on the post. But then the whole ordeal is quite spendy, however you're well protected and you can run safely in a great many more conditions.

I may just wire it post --> EMS --> cord --> Autoformer --> Coach. If I start to disconnect I can always switch the EMS and the Autoformer.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:46 PM   #19
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Autoformer, EMS, Proper Order, Weather Protection

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Jeff, Unfortunately, it is the Hughs 50A autoformer that is referred to here: http://www.amazon.com/50-Amp-Autofor...ews/B00IYWZE6Q

Check out the rating titled: "Top Critical Review" That is where I pulled this from. I don't want to beat this topic to death however, I felt all should at least know of this potential and possibly fraudulent issue.


Fair. But the "reviewer" was writing about a product that he acquired used. In addition, Hughes is a newer company that came out of a company called "Frank's". Was he reviewing a Hughes model? A Frank's model?

My experience with Hughes has been phenomenal as has anyone that I know with one. I rank them right along Progressive Industries, Quadra Mfg, and ProPride Inc on my scale of best customer service companies.... absolutely top notch.

I would have zero concern installing one of their products.


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Old 05-24-2016, 02:23 PM   #20
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Jeff, Unfortunately, it is the Hughs 50A autoformer that is referred to here: http://www.amazon.com/50-Amp-Autofor...ews/B00IYWZE6Q

Check out the rating titled: "Top Critical Review" That is where I pulled this from. I don't want to beat this topic to death however, I felt all should at least know of this potential and possibly fraudulent issue.
I tend to agree with the commenters to this review since the acquisition of the unit in itself was suspicious. Either the unit was modified by the previous owner, was not a Hughes, or both.
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