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Old 09-12-2018, 08:38 AM   #1
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DirecTV becoming even more unfriendly to some.

We all know that DirecTV wasn't always the best option for RV'ers. From no HD programming when using a carryout, no "pay as you go", etc. it only made sense for those of us that already had DirecTV service in our homes, and even then, there were trade offs over going with Dish. Well, things are getting even more "unfriendly".

For the past year or so (basically since ATT took over) I have been reading an increasing amount of posts on numerous boards about recent difficulties in getting one's "service address" changed by simply calling DirecTV as we have done for the past 18+ years. I know last winter, I even had more difficulties in getting it done than I had previously but wrote it off to an overseas CSR vs. any changes in policy by ATT. Please note, if you don't ever call to get your service address changed so you can receive local stations via sat, this may not affect you but you should be aware just the same. I have been told that this "policy" has been in the DirecTV TOS for a long time but was never really enforced. It appears ATT is now doing so in spades. Is it to push RV'ers away, force them into DNS second accounts, or push them to the new streaming service, quit making CSR's answer change of service address calls? Who knows, but knowing ATT over the past few decades (landline, dialup, DSL and now DirecTV) I am sure it is motivated by $$$ vs. anything else.

So knowing what I went thru last spring and now after reading about all the difficulties others were having recently in getting their service address changed, it had me a little concerned and with this years trip approaching, I wanted to see if all the complaints I had read about were legit that said the new ATT account system had messed everything up. So I called DirecTV and opted to bypass the CSR's and talked to two different individuals, one in technical support and one in retention to try and verify what I have been reading. They both verified that things ARE changing and told me the same thing.

They both said that as far as they know, this "change" (I can't call it an "issue" anymore) is only affecting new customers or those that have been migrated to the new system due to bundling, equipment upgrades/changes, etc. But eventually, all accounts will eventually be moved. So if your not affected yet, you soon will be and it WILL be the new norm going forward. Basically got the impression that this is not a "glitch" with the new system but rather a deliberate and permanent change.

If you have been migrated to the new system, in order to perform a change in "service address", you now must go thru the entire "Mover's" process where when reporting a new "service address", they will deactivate all your equipment, roll a truck to your RV or wherever your located now, and the tech will reactivate your equipment. Many also report having to pay a "mover's fee". This process could also take days. They also are going to start enforcing their "policy" that all "active" equipment on a given account MUST be at the "service location" listed on the account. So for those of us that are used to just taking 1/2 receivers with us and the rest stay at home, that also may create issues. I didn't ask if some receivers could be put on vacation hold while left at home and others remain active on the same account to use in the RV so I won't speculate on that but with limitations on how often you can "suspend" and the maximum length of time per year you can do so, it just gets that much more complicated, and possibly more expensive depending on your situation.

I was told that the only other "sat" options are to subscribe to a second "RV" account and apply for the DNS service (network out of NY or LA) so although you would still get "network" programming, no more "local" stations. You would also have to have separate receivers tied to the DNS/RV account because residential account receivers cannot be authorized for DNS. So with us away for only a few months a year, and a maximum suspension time of 6 months, we would still end up having to pay on 2 accounts (programming and receiver fees) for approx. 3 months out of 6, even though we weren't using that RV account during that time. The only other workaround would be to not call DirecTV to change your service address and either go without locals or use your antenna. In our case, the Winegard Rayzar on our new Eagle TT is all but worthless where we stay and we really want to be able to keep up on local news and especially weather while away. And we also would lose the ability to record "local" programming on our Genie as well. Then there is also the chance of having our account terminated due to a violation of the TOS by having equipment on the same account in two locations at once. That termination threat was always there but DirecTV pre-ATT, looked the other way for RV'ers. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if ATT will start going after some as well if they find out.

I could go on but at least for us, ATT just made it even more difficult to even consider DirecTV as a service option in our RV. I get that "technically" what was being done was against the TOS and exceptions were made for RV'ers but I take that as the "old" DirecTV caring more about customer satisfaction and usability than anything else. Appears ATT does not care! The reality is that DirecTV just became either more difficult to use in an RV than it already was or more expensive. Take your pick. And if I am going to have an RV account that will cost me more money, it won't be with DirecTV. Time for us at least, to take a LOT closer look at Dish, at least in the RV. Offer HD via a carryout, have pay as you go plans and most importantly, they actually allow you to change your local stations via chat or thru an app on your smartphone as often as needed.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:49 AM   #2
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Who knows, but knowing ATT over the past few decades (landline, dialup, DSL and now DirecTV) I am sure it is motivated by $$$ vs. anything else.
I'm sure $$ are part of the equation, but it t could be FCC rules too. Years ago DISH was very loose when it came to DNS and they lost their right to provide them for RV's. For a while they even used a 3rd party for RV DNS and that went belly up too.DIRECT may just be trying to keep their nose clean.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #3
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I'm sure $$ are part of the equation, but it t could be FCC rules too. Years ago DISH was very loose when it came to DNS and they lost their right to provide them for RV's. For a while they even used a 3rd party for RV DNS and that went belly up too.DIRECT may just be trying to keep their nose clean.
As far as I know Grumpy, it has nothing to do with FCC regulations because I and many others are not deliberately requesting service address changes or doing anything that would allow us to watch any local broadcast stations outside the "DMA" (designated market area) they are currently staying in. This also has nothing to do with tying to obtain a DNS account to be used in both an RV and residental setting which is what all the hubbub was about in regards to Dish being loose with their DNS permitting. In fact, by requesting a "service address" change, we are complying with the FCC regulations to make sure we get the proper local broadcast stations for our physical location.

The "policy" ATT is now quoting to justify this move was put in place a long time ago to try and prevent "account stacking" where a single account is shared among multiple locations "at the same time". I get that. But in the case of RVer's, the "old" DirecTV looked the other way on their own TOS and allowed the service address changes as a way to actually comply with the sprit of the FCC regulations vs. making everyone apply for DNS service. At least that is the way it was explained to me by a former DirecTV call center tech that actually took these kinds of calls.

So let me further add another scenario that may clear up the point I am trying to make here and why I feel so strongly about this. Two "scenarios" if you will.

First scenario - We go south in an RV or even travel to a vacation rental somewhere say a thousand miles away from home for a few months and take a receiver and/or DVR with us to use with our Trav'ler, another mounted dish on the roof or pole, a tripod setup or a carryout. We can still watch, record, and otherwise use the service, with the exception of the local stations because we are now outside of our spot beam for our "DMA" (designated market area) and everything other than local stations are broadcast on CONUS beams and can be received anywhere in the Continental US. But because we are not only outside our DMA AND spot beam, we call DirecTV and they used to simply make the change to our "service address" in their system and we now have the locals for that area along with an updated channel guide within a matter of a few minutes. Population of the locals for that area takes a few hours. Additionally, since the service address is changed for the account, it affects ALL receivers on the account so any receivers left at our home location can no longer receive the locals there because THEY are now outside the spot beam for the local stations assigned to the account and the only way to view locals at the subscribers "billing address" (aka: home) would be via an antenna or some other service they may have. This scenario completely satisfies any FCC regulations about viewing local broadcast stations outside one's DMA. And although it may "technically" violate ATT/DirecTV's own TOS, read the second scenario as to why DirecTV used to "look the other way" as long as there wasn't proven abuse of the TOS.

Second scenario - A RV'er goes off on a camping trip that does NOT take them outside their spot beam and even though they may be 100 miles from home and physically outside their DMA, still is able to receive the local stations in their home DMA. This IS against FCC regulations and the ATT/DirecTV TOS. Or how about someone simply going to a tailgate a few miles from home and takes a portable dish and receiver with them to watch the game at the tailgate but are also "technically" outside their accounts DMA? It happens all the time and ATT/DirecTV know it. And here's the real rub. Suppose family members that didn't accompany them on the camping trip or to the tailgate are still at home, watching/recording ALL of their stations including locals at the same time the person(s) in the RV or at the tailgate are watching. THAT is a clear violation of both FCC regulations and the TOS.

So is ATT going to start trolling local campgrounds and tailgates? No, they are not. This is ONLY going to affect those that want to not only continue to receive local broadcasts in the DMA wherever that may be, but fully comply with FCC regulations about not being able to view broadcast stations outside the assigned DMA. In other words, if your going to travel outside your DMA spot beam and prefer local broadcast service over DNS, DirecTV just got a WHOLE lot more complicated.

DNS service may suffice for those that change locations a lot, but for those of us that are more seasonal and tend to stay in just a few places for extended periods as well as far outside our DMA, local news and even more important for RV'ers, local weather is MUCH more preferable.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:02 PM   #4
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snip...Appears ATT could give a S***! snip...
In my experience, always has been the case, and always will be the case. If I have ANY other choice than ATT, I will take it in a heartbeat.

Dealing with them right now on internet. I'm out in the boonies, so I have exactly 2 options: their DSL or satellite. There is a third LOS option, but it doesn't tend to work well where I am. But the local Co-op will be putting in fiber soon. The MOMENT that happens, I will drop ATT like a bad habit.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:23 PM   #5
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As far as I know Grumpy, it has nothing to do with FCC regulations because I and many others are not deliberately requesting service address changes or doing anything that would allow us to watch any local broadcast stations outside the "DMA" (designated market area) they are currently staying in.
My point was there may be some "fine print" in the the FCC regs that don't allow them to do that, which up till now, has been ignored. Who knows?
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:39 PM   #6
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Next year directv will be loosing SD channels because the satellite is at the end of it’s usefull life (they said it). They say it’s nearly impossible to setup a portable HD dish without expensive meters. So it looks like dish tv for me.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:57 PM   #7
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JohnWedell - It's easy to setup a portable HD dish for DirecTV... as long as you have a good level surface to start with and room to port the huge full-size HD dish around... Not sure what "expensive meters" they're trying to sell you, but a compass and pole with altitude/angle markings is all you need.

Our Seneca came with the KingDome which could only find SD stations on DirecTV... and it often had to hunt for those every time you changed the channel or had a wiggle in the RV (i.e. a human going in/out the door). We replaced it last year with the roof-mounted full HD fold-down dish. It's been great so far.

We've been with DirecTV since 1997, and they've been great... up until AT&T took them over. Every day it gets worse.

Just one year ago, I called to change our address and get local channels while traveling in CO (WA is home) - the first call was awesome, easy! At our next location on OR, it took about 3x as long... but we got it done. When returning HOME, it was nearly impossible to get our service address returned TO THE BILLING ADDRESS!!!! They needed the "last service address" - i.e. the campground we had been at, before they would even TALK to me. It was VERY frustrating.

There are a LOT of things we love about DirecTV, but the cons are slowly gaining on the pros... it won't be too long before the cons outweigh the pros.

Sad when customer loyalty is tossed out the window. We've invested a LOT of $$ with DirecTV over the last 20+ years.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:33 AM   #8
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I'm sure $$ are part of the equation, but it t could be FCC rules too. Years ago DISH was very loose when it came to DNS and they lost their right to provide them for RV's. For a while they even used a 3rd party for RV DNS and that went belly up too.DIRECT may just be trying to keep their nose clean.
Does Dish have a DNS type service now? I have lost track of what they do offer. I have a DirecTV RV account and no home account since I full time.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:42 AM   #9
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Next year directv will be loosing SD channels because the satellite is at the end of it’s usefull life (they said it). They say it’s nearly impossible to setup a portable HD dish without expensive meters. So it looks like dish tv for me.

Who is "They"? I set up my Slimline portable HD dish all the time on a tripod and have been doing so for 8 years now. I use the meter built in to my Genie receiver (or earlier DTV receivers before the Genie). I put the dish on the tripod after setting and leveling the tripod, tune in the signal strength screen on the Genie, aim a wireless baby monitor camera at the TV screen and take the wireless remote outside with me to aim the dish.

I takes me usually less than 60 seconds to aim the dish after it is set on the tripod.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:00 AM   #10
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Next year directv will be loosing SD channels because the satellite is at the end of it’s usefull life (they said it). They say it’s nearly impossible to setup a portable HD dish without expensive meters. So it looks like dish tv for me.
They have not announced that "SD" (standard definition) is going away. That is a common misconception that is made.

What was announced is that mpeg2 transmissions, which is the compression scheme used currently by DirecTV to broadcast SD channels is ending in April 2019. There is absolutely nothing preventing them from simply converting all current SD channels to mpeg4.

So at this point, that is all that has been officially announced.

Now, "assuming" that DirecTV still offers some kind of SD offering using mpeg4 compressions, the other question is whether they also move these channels to Ka bands/transponders. THIS could have some drastic effects on older carryouts, 18" round dishes, and even in-motion dishes as well. This is because Ka band transmissions are more prone to rain fade than the older Ku band transmissions are. So in order to maintain an equivalent amount of signal strength, the reflectors need to be larger in order to attenuate rain fade using Ka band. In other words, the older equipment would be even more prone to signal loss than they already were.

Knowing that Winegard and King just started marketing new, updated versions of their carryouts, with Winegard's G3 having a 20 percent larger reflector and King's having clear domes to help with signal acquisition, tells me that they know something that we don't know yet. I highly doubt they would spend the money in developing and marketing these new products if all SD offerings from DirecTV were going away. We just need to wait until we know more.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:04 AM   #11
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Does Dish have a DNS type service now? I have lost track of what they do offer. I have a DirecTV RV account and no home account since I full time.
It appears they do but it appears to be in a different fashion than DirecTV does.

https://www.dbstalk.com/community/in...ine-up.223826/
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:12 AM   #12
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JohnWedell - It's easy to setup a portable HD dish for DirecTV... as long as you have a good level surface to start with and room to port the huge full-size HD dish around... Not sure what "expensive meters" they're trying to sell you, but a compass and pole with altitude/angle markings is all you need.

Our Seneca came with the KingDome which could only find SD stations on DirecTV... and it often had to hunt for those every time you changed the channel or had a wiggle in the RV (i.e. a human going in/out the door). We replaced it last year with the roof-mounted full HD fold-down dish. It's been great so far.

We've been with DirecTV since 1997, and they've been great... up until AT&T took them over. Every day it gets worse.

Just one year ago, I called to change our address and get local channels while traveling in CO (WA is home) - the first call was awesome, easy! At our next location on OR, it took about 3x as long... but we got it done. When returning HOME, it was nearly impossible to get our service address returned TO THE BILLING ADDRESS!!!! They needed the "last service address" - i.e. the campground we had been at, before they would even TALK to me. It was VERY frustrating.

There are a LOT of things we love about DirecTV, but the cons are slowly gaining on the pros... it won't be too long before the cons outweigh the pros.

Sad when customer loyalty is tossed out the window. We've invested a LOT of $$ with DirecTV over the last 20+ years.
Same experience here as well. 18+ years. I am also quickly coming to the point where trying to keep DirecTV, at least in the RV, is more hassle than it's worth.

I have decided "for now" to just dust off a spare AM21 I have in the basement and try that for a while to get my locals integrated into my Genie channel guide while I research Dish for the RV a bit further.

But I also will have to fashion another "residential type" antenna that has a lot higher gain to my ladder or maybe a tree to get locals at our seasonal site because the Winegard Rayzar Z1 antenna that came with our TT is a total piece of crap.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:17 AM   #13
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Who is "They"? I set up my Slimline portable HD dish all the time on a tripod and have been doing so for 8 years now. I use the meter built in to my Genie receiver (or earlier DTV receivers before the Genie). I put the dish on the tripod after setting and leveling the tripod, tune in the signal strength screen on the Genie, aim a wireless baby monitor camera at the TV screen and take the wireless remote outside with me to aim the dish.

I takes me usually less than 60 seconds to aim the dish after it is set on the tripod.
I have had instances that for some reason, took me a lot longer to get a Slimline HD dish dialed in properly than others but usually no more than a few minutes.

There was one time where I just couldn't get it no matter what I did and ended up calling to have a tech visit our site. Long story short, somehow the reflector was bent/warped even though it had it's place of honor in the back seat of my truck. He replaced it with another and not a problem since.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #14
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Back to the complaint of AT&T's horrible customer service. It seem to get passed on from the early days before "Ma Bell" was broken up in 1983. I had a bumper sticker back then with Bell System logo that stated:

"We don't care. We don't have to."

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Old 09-16-2018, 12:17 PM   #15
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Back to the complaint of AT&T's horrible customer service. It seem to get passed on from the early days before "Ma Bell" was broken up in 1983. I had a bumper sticker back then with Bell System logo that stated:

"We don't care. We don't have to."

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Old 09-16-2018, 01:30 PM   #16
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We had Dish for one year, didn't like it, Sat TV in general that is. If we get locals on our King Jack antenna then fine, we watch the news, if not I always bring a SSD HD full of movies and series episodes of our shows to watch on those rare occasions we feel like watching TV, not very often. We spend most of our time hiking, fishing, biking, or reading, after all we are camping because we enjoy the outdoors. But we are seasonal RV'ers so for the most part the weather is fine, I can understand full timers wanting good TV choices, but hey, we watch very little TV at home in any case. To each their own but most of the TV programming these days is a waste of time.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:51 PM   #17
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For the past year or so (basically since ATT took over) I have been reading an increasing amount of posts on numerous boards about recent difficulties in getting one's "service address" changed by simply calling DirecTV as we have done for the past 18+ years.
Do yourself a favor and drop Direct. There is a reason why Dish Network has always been rated best in service. Their service is great. But now I don't have to call them anymore when I move to another local market. Just bring up their "My Dish" app and click the "reauthorize" button and it will automatically change your service address to your location. Just wait 10 minutes or so and start the satellite scan. I use a Winegard G2. Automatic. And if the view is clear, you'll have TV in just minutes.

Over the years, I've had many solicitations from cable companies and Direct to switch. No way. Plus their remote software is far superior to Direct.

Just sayin'.
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:00 PM   #18
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Do yourself a favor and drop Direct. There is a reason why Dish Network has always been rated best in service. Their service is great. But now I don't have to call them anymore when I move to another local market. Just bring up their "My Dish" app and click the "reauthorize" button and it will automatically change your service address to your location. Just wait 10 minutes or so and start the satellite scan. I use a Winegard G2. Automatic. And if the view is clear, you'll have TV in just minutes.

Over the years, I've had many solicitations from cable companies and Direct to switch. No way. Plus their remote software is far superior to Direct.

Just sayin'.
Trust me, I get it and am already looking into Dish, at least for the RV. We have had DirecTV for over 18 years so it was just easier to move a DVR and a receiver to the RV as needed, as well as a LOT cheaper than having 2 accounts.

I merely posted my experiences and what I was told by DirecTV for anyone that also was in the habit of changing their service addresses. It is a small percentage of DirecTV users that do this, but it will have adverse effects on those of us that did. With that being said, I have already started doing some investigating and at this point, it looks like it is going to be rather expensive to move the RV to Dish, at least to be able to have the number of tuners and flexibility we already have with our Genie and wireless mini. We are 6 month seasonal so going with less just won't work for us. I would also have to give up NFL Sunday Ticket, which would be yet another sacrifice to move to dish.

Then there is the cost of converting the Trav'ler on the roof (300.00+), get a new Dish dish for the tripod (not a big cost), and I will have to purchase a Hopper 3 as well as a wireless Joey/transmitter (about 450.00) to be able to at least match the number of tuners with what we already use since Dish won't lease a Hopper 3 for an RV nor will they authorize a Hopper 3 on a pay as you go "outdoor" plan for the RV, so that's another 300-400 bucks. So equipment and conversions costs are running close to a grand to move to Dish.

I am going to see what Dish might do to help mitigate the out of pocket costs a bit that I am looking at with discounts on programming. It's still a work in progress and for the time being, I will try to work around these new limitations with DirecTV.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:34 AM   #19
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I am a 23 year non-stop DTV customer and very happy with the service, but never call customer no-service unless absolutely necessary. I full time and have an RV account with DNS. The DNS is well worth it for me because I program my weekly favorite programs and whenever I set up in a different location they are there and record as normal with zero new programming. In two weeks I will be boondocking at Talladega for 6 days volunteering and all I have to do after setting up my dish (which takes me just minutes) I just have to make sure I run my generator in the evenings during the time my selected programs will broadcast. Piece of cake.
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Ed
KM4STL

2006 GMC 2500HD CCSB 4x4 Duramax/Allison, Titan 52 gallon fuel tank, Prodigy Controller, B&W Companion Hitch
2010 Jayco Designer 35RLTS, Cummins/Onan RV QG 5500 EVAP, Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X, TST Systems 507 TPMS, RV Flex Armor Roof
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:52 AM   #20
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Getzville
Posts: 50
Is there any involvement with the NFL package? If you wanted to watch a particular game, you could request a change to a different location and watch the game on that local station. Used to have the NFL package and paid significant dollars for it.
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