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Old 06-27-2020, 12:58 PM   #1
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Electrical Experts

I build and design electrical distribution and control systems for a living and have done so for 37 years. Every "electrical" thread I see here has incorrect information in one or more posts. I'm just curious as to who actually is a licensed electrical engineer or licensed electrician here in this forum.
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Old 06-27-2020, 01:46 PM   #2
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I have a electrical question for you ..... I have a 2019 Senneca 37K that has two 13,500 BTU AC. It also has a 50 Amp cord with male plug for RVing. My electrical box at my home is full and I did not want to add another box. I use only one AC unit when plugged in to house. My question to you is ..... Can I use a 50 foot 30 Amp extension cord with the 4 prong 50 Amp female to my 50 amp male and add a 30 amp male 4 prong and plug into my 220V dryer plug safely ? Most say no and as you are in the business will this work safely ? Thanks in Advance.
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:07 PM   #3
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I build and design electrical distribution and control systems for a living and have done so for 37 years. Every "electrical" thread I see here has incorrect information in one or more posts. I'm just curious as to who actually is a licensed electrical engineer or licensed electrician here in this forum.
I'll step up.
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:14 PM   #4
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I have a electrical question for you ..... I have a 2019 Senneca 37K that has two 13,500 BTU AC. It also has a 50 Amp cord with male plug for RVing. My electrical box at my home is full and I did not want to add another box. I use only one AC unit when plugged in to house. My question to you is ..... Can I use a 50 foot 30 Amp extension cord with the 4 prong 50 Amp female to my 50 amp male and add a 30 amp male 4 prong and plug into my 220V dryer plug safely ? Most say no and as you are in the business will this work safely ? Thanks in Advance.
You can IF you use a real electrician and he builds you a personal dog Bone that fits your 30 amp dryer outlet. The dryer outlet must be 4 wire.You will be limited to 30 amps. Not 50. You can not buy one made to do that. You would have to use this only on a 50 amo RV.

30 amp Rv is 120 volts one leg. 50 amps is 120/240 leg 2 leg.
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:21 PM   #5
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The answer: it depends. Dryer outlets used to be 240v with a ground, then they were 240v with a ground and a neutral but the ground and neutral were landed on the same terminal on the device and then there was another code change and now there is a 4 wire dryer outlet with 240v, a neutral and a ground. IF you have a 240v, a neutral and a ground you could remove the dryer out and install a 30 amp RV outlet which is a different prong configuration than a dryer outlet and doesn't need a second "hot" which you would cap off so you would have 120v a neutral and a ground. That's a lot of work and then you couldn't use your dryer.

Your panel is full but there are "peanut" breakers (tandem) available where you can remove two single pole breakers and install one tandem as long as the two breakers you remove are the same phase or are dedicated circuits with there own (not shared) neutral, install two peanut breakers on different phases which frees up room for a two pole breaker so could have 240v available for your RV. I actually could have done all this in less time than it takes to type it. Hire an electrician and have them install a 50 amp RV outlet and run the whole RV.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:15 PM   #6
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licensed electrician here and have to agree I see a lot of misinformation on all RV forums.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:58 PM   #7
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The answer: it depends. Dryer outlets used to be 240v with a ground, then they were 240v with a ground and a neutral but the ground and neutral were landed on the same terminal on the device and then there was another code change and now there is a 4 wire dryer outlet with 240v, a neutral and a ground. IF you have a 240v, a neutral and a ground you could remove the dryer out and install a 30 amp RV outlet which is a different prong configuration than a dryer outlet and doesn't need a second "hot" which you would cap off so you would have 120v a neutral and a ground. That's a lot of work and then you couldn't use your dryer.

Your panel is full but there are "peanut" breakers (tandem) available where you can remove two single pole breakers and install one tandem as long as the two breakers you remove are the same phase or are dedicated circuits with there own (not shared) neutral, install two peanut breakers on different phases which frees up room for a two pole breaker so could have 240v available for your RV. I actually could have done all this in less time than Tt takes to type it. Hire an electrician and have them install a 50 amp RV outlet and run the whole RV.
You almost got it right. Actually what we ran was called 10/3 plain. Black, white and a green, White was a hot leg. I guess in this case you could say they were combined but in reality it was one wire and we were using the ground as a neutral also which in fact was a code violation until it was change to 4 wire. We were never allowed to bond a neutral and a ground on terminal at the device. That happened at the sub panel. That brought on the 4 wire system. Neutral (Insulated) and Ground (Bare) were never allowed to be together at a device. The code was changed to isolate at the sub panel and neutral and ground bonding now happen at the main service panel Point of Disconnect. Which may or not be in the main panel. But that is a whole different discussion.

FYI, the breakers are called wafer or twins. Not peanut. That term is reserved for relays.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:11 PM   #8
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You almost got it right. We were never allowed to bond a neutral and a ground on terminal at the device. That happened at the sub panel. That brought on the 4 wire system. Neutral (Insulated) and Ground (Bare) were never allowed to be together at a device. The code was changed to isolate at the sub panel and neutral and ground bonding now happen at the main service panel Point of Disconect. Which may or not be in the main panel. But that is a whole different discussion.

FYI, the breakers are called wafer or twins. Not peanut. That term is reserved for relays.

There was a period of time in the 80's when the dryer and the range circuit were derived from the main electrical panel where the neutral was bonded the AHJ in Santa Barbara County California required us to land the neutral and ground wire together on the 3 wire receptacle. And I don't know or care where you are from but in many parts of the country they are called "Peanut" breakers. Were both right. You probably call flex greenfield.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:20 PM   #9
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licensed electrician here and have to agree i see a lot of misinformation on all rv forums.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:24 PM   #10
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I build and design electrical distribution and control systems for a living and have done so for 37 years. Every "electrical" thread I see here has incorrect information in one or more posts. I'm just curious as to who actually is a licensed electrical engineer or licensed electrician here in this forum.
This is an internet forum, EVERYONE'S AN EXPERT! LOL

I'm a retired Rocket Scientist, if any one needs advise on getting into space, send me a PM!
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:28 PM   #11
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This is an internet forum, EVERYONE'S AN EXPERT! LOL

I'm a retired Rocket Scientist, if any one needs advise on getting into space, send me a PM!



I actually know a retired rocket scientist and he built an extremely nice retirement house on the shore of the Columbia river in Washington state. I'll defer to him for any propulsion questions.
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:26 PM   #12
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There was a period of time in the 80's when the dryer and the range circuit were derived from the main electrical panel where the neutral was bonded the AHJ in Santa Barbara County California required us to land the neutral and ground wire together on the 3 wire receptacle. And I don't know or care where you are from but in many parts of the country they are called "Peanut" breakers. Were both right. You probably call flex greenfield.
We all know the left coaster are strange.
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:57 PM   #13
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We all know the left coaster are strange.



I was born in Concord, Mass. So I'm officially a Masshole. I'm also a card carrying NRA member and a Republican. Not much "left" with me.
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Old 06-27-2020, 08:19 PM   #14
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I'm sure the fine folks who wired my rv DC and AC wiring with 500 splices were licensed electricians. I've found that coax is their nemisis. They would rather roll up 150ft under my bed then cut it and terminate it with an F connector.
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:05 PM   #15
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I build and design electrical distribution and control systems for a living and have done so for 37 years.
I really don't understand why some people find the need to post their resumes here, over and over.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:19 AM   #16
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I was born in Concord, Mass. So I'm officially a Masshole. I'm also a card carrying NRA member and a Republican. Not much "left" with me.
I'm headed to The Bershires to Pittsfield MA on Monday AM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:29 AM   #17
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I really don't understand why some people find the need to post their resumes here, over and over.
I for one have it highlighted in my signature to keep down a lot of conversation on whether I know what I'm talking about from time to time. Stops a lot of argument from DIY wannabe's that don't know the codes and give out bad information. I go out of my way to stop unsafe and non code compliant information on the internet. I get lots of PM requests from folks that see it in my signature.

It is not a bragging thing with me. it's a need to inform whomever I am talking to.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:35 AM   #18
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I go out of my way to stop unsafe and non code compliant information on the internet.
Everyone needs a hobby.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:37 AM   #19
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Everyone needs a hobby.
Yep and this one is mine!
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Old 06-28-2020, 05:36 AM   #20
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I was born in Concord, Mass. So I'm officially a Masshole. I'm also a card carrying NRA member and a Republican. Not much "left" with me.
Bless your heart and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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