Electrical - "Open Neutral"

THE MEEKER · 04-30-2018, 11:36 AM

I have a portable Progressive 30 amp surge protector. When I plugged the surge protector by itself into shore power, it stated "correct" code. When I plugged my RV into it, it stated "open neutral". I checked all connections on my trailer and everything looks clean and good. Would this indicate a problem with the shore power pedestal or my RV's electrical system? What should I be looking for? Thanks!

DonaandDon · 04-30-2018, 11:54 AM

Not an expert, but I believe the 220 has two neutrals in which one is not properly secured. Not in your RV.... I had a similar condition and the campground maintenance personnel ran a 30amp line over (from another leg of their grid) to me and I used a reducer. The surge protector then read all green.

wags999 · 04-30-2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonaandDon

Not an expert, but I believe the 220 has two neutrals in which one is not properly secured. Not in your RV.... I had a similar condition and the campground maintenance personnel ran a 30amp line over (from another leg of their grid) to me and I used a reducer. The surge protector then read all green.

30 amp is not 240 volts it's only 120 volts. One hot leg, One neutral and one ground. A 50 amp service has 2 hot legs each 120 volts, one neutral and one ground. The hot legs are "phased" and hence only one neutral is needed.

Bullitt6283 · 04-30-2018, 12:07 PM

When you connected the RV to the surge protector, did you still have the RVs main breaker turned off? If so, it should have made no difference in the reading.

John from Central Florida · 04-30-2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE MEEKER

When I plugged the surge protector by itself into shore power, it stated "correct" code. When I plugged my RV into it, it stated "open neutral"

Meek,

I have no idea if this could be the problem, but the instructions that came with mine says that the rv plug must be inserted into the protector before the protector is plugged into shore power...just a thought.

wags999 · 04-30-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE MEEKER

I have a portable Progressive 30 amp surge protector. When I plugged the surge protector by itself into shore power, it stated "correct" code. When I plugged my RV into it, it stated "open neutral". I checked all connections on my trailer and everything looks clean and good. Would this indicate a problem with the shore power pedestal or my RV's electrical system? What should I be looking for? Thanks!

The EMS reads incoming power not power once in your RV. I would assume that would mean that the pedestal is at fault. If you ask the campground they can bring a meter and check the pedestal. As others have said you may want to try and plug your RV into the EMS then, with the breaker off in the pedestal, plug the EMS in and then turn the breaker on. See is that makes any difference.

I would check with the campground. If you have an open neutral you should get no power into the RV.,

Good Luck

THE MEEKER · 04-30-2018, 12:34 PM

Surge protector plugged into shore power pedestal by itself, "correct" code. Once I plug my RV electric cord (30 amp) into it, "open neutral" code. Main breaker is closed. Everything works fine.

It is a 20 amp shore power pedestal however. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with this?

wags999 · 04-30-2018, 01:12 PM

NO 20 amp is no different than a 30 amp just a different plug and receptacle. Unless your adapter is bad, or the receptacle is bad and creating a loose connection. They have no 30 or 50 amp receptacles in the pedestal? It must be an old pedestal and most likely the pedestal is the issue.

ALJO · 04-30-2018, 04:47 PM

When you plug the surge-protector into shore-power and it shows the correct code then that side is OK.
When you plug in the RV cord to the surge-protector and shows an open neutral, it means you have an open neutral. So pull your power-cord into your RV and check with a multi-meter for an open connection in the neutral. Unhook the neutral from the panel before you test.

wags999 · 04-30-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALJO

When you plug the surge-protector into shore-power and it shows the correct code then that side is OK.
When you plug in the RV cord to the surge-protector and shows an open neutral, it means you have an open neutral. So pull your power-cord into your RV and check with a multi-meter for an open connection in the neutral. Unhook the neutral from the panel before you test.

I believe an EMS only monitors your power into the RV. I may be wrong but I don't think it's a two way street in that it will monitor what comes in and what happens after the power gets to the RV. I would be interested in hearing from others that may have more knowledge regarding the workings of the EMS.

THE MEEKER · 04-30-2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags999

I believe an EMS only monitors your power into the RV. I may be wrong but I don't think it's a two way street in that it will monitor what comes in and what happens after the power gets to the RV. I would be interested in hearing from others that may have more knowledge regarding the workings of the EMS.

That's what I'm thinking since I have 120V to the trailer and all appliances, outlets etc. I have a closed hot and a closed neutral. If either one was open, there would be no power... right?

Why would the EMS surge protector state "open neutral" and there is power at the pedestal?

wags999 · 04-30-2018, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE MEEKER

That's what I'm thinking since I have 120V to the trailer and all appliances, outlets etc. I have a closed hot and a closed neutral. If either one was open, there would be no power... right?

Why would the EMS surge protector state "open neutral" and there is power at the pedestal?

Any place with an open neutral would not allow power to flow... I actually wrote to progressive with this question. Hopefully tomorrow I will get an answer and will post their reply. You sure it wasn't an open ground ?

Atlee · 05-01-2018, 03:01 AM

I've never done it that way. My PI EMS is always plugged into the pedestal first. Then I plug my shore power plug into the EMS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John from Central Florida

Meek,

I have no idea if this could be the problem, but the instructions that came with mine says that the rv plug must be inserted into the protector before the protector is plugged into shore power...just a thought.

**norty1** · 05-01-2018, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags999

Any place with an open neutral would not allow power to flow... I actually wrote to progressive with this question. Hopefully tomorrow I will get an answer and will post their reply. You sure it wasn't an open ground ?

I'm very interested in what they say. I always plug my rig in to the poser cable then plug into the un-energized pedestal. That way there are no arcs which can cause future connector problems. Then I operate the pedestal breaker, wait for the EMS to run it's tests until I hear it's internal circuit audible CLICK.

It seems doing it any other way would be the same as plugging a connector into an energized connection, which is always the wrong way to do it.

I have always that the EMS tests what is incoming to it and that is one reason many put the hardwired EMS as close to the campers breaker panel as possible.

wags999 · 05-01-2018, 08:36 AM

I received a reply from Progressive. All EMS only monitor what is coming into it, nothing beyond. He did not reply to the situation you had. But I would assume with no load you got a different reading than once a load was put on it. I have a hard wired so it is always connected, when I plug into the pedestal and turn that breaker on I get a reading. I would assume to match a hard wired, you would need to connect the EMS to the RV cord, then plug in and turn the breaker on to get a good reading. Another way to check if the receptacle has an open neutral is to throw a meter on it. If you check from hot to neutral you should get 120 volts, if it's open you should be zero.

Good Luck.

wags999 · 05-01-2018, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norty1

I'm very interested in what they say. I always plug my rig in to the power cable then plug into the un-energized pedestal. That way there are no arcs which can cause future connector problems. Then I operate the pedestal breaker, wait for the EMS to run it's tests until I hear it's internal circuit audible CLICK.

It seems doing it any other way would be the same as plugging a connector into an energized connection, which is always the wrong way to do it.

I have always thought that the EMS tests what is incoming to it and that is one reason many put the hardwired EMS as close to the campers breaker panel as possible.

Sounds like your doing it correctly Norty..

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