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07-21-2017, 08:08 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 35
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Poor A/C blamed on Campground Electric?
Hi all, looking for some feedback. Sorry about the length.
We have a new 2017 Eagle HT 29.5 BHDS, and the A/C on our most recent trip wasn't working properly in our opinon. 86 ambient outside, 70% humidity, trailer inside was low humidity but 82 during afternoon, well into the evening. Campground is newish, but has had power issues (temporary outage, low voltages)
Prior to that, we stayed in Ocean Lakes, SC, and it was 90, with 90-100% humidity. Trailer was dry, and stayed around 78-79 during heat of the day.
Both spots are full sun. We do have a Progressive EMS unit in place, and the trailer is 50 amp. 15k btu A/C
We took the trailer in for it's first round of warranty work, and they checked the A/C and said it's putting out the 20 degree difference that's required. They are recommending running the Fridge and Water heater on propane, and cut any other electric usage we can. Saying they have seen a number of trailers lately with A/C problems due to not enough voltage at the campgrounds.
What has me confused is if it is a low power issue, shouldn't my Progressive be catching and shutting down the power totally? Is the dealer on to something? My friend next site over has a large toy hauler that he could keep at 70, where mine runs at 80. He does have an extra A/C over mine. Shouldn't he have the same power related problems I am?
Thanks
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2017 Eagle HT 29.5 BHDS
2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, CC/SB, 6.0L w/B&W hitch system
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07-21-2017, 08:17 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where ever the boss says we're going.
Posts: 16,081
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As the tech said a 20 degree temp differential is the standard for cooling.
The fact that he has 2 units makes a big difference and I think that is the main reason his unit is cooler.
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DISNEY LOVERS
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07-21-2017, 08:27 AM
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#3
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Brookhaven
Posts: 15
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You need to be in our shoes, 89 outside 85 inside.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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07-21-2017, 08:28 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 1,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erren
Hi all, looking for some feedback. Sorry about the length.
What has me confused is if it is a low power issue, shouldn't my Progressive be catching and shutting down the power totally? Is the dealer on to something? My friend next site over has a large toy hauler that he could keep at 70, where mine runs at 80. He does have an extra A/C over mine. Shouldn't he have the same power related problems I am?
Thanks
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You Progressive will catch the low voltage PROVIDED the input voltage drops to a certain set point it would then cut power to your TT until the voltage comes back to or past that set point. It will also will do the same for an overvoltage condition.
Recommend you read the manual for your Progressive unit to get a better understand as to how the over/under voltage works
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2004 Jay Feather 25E
2001 Ford Expedition 4X4 EB 5.4 3.55 rear
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07-21-2017, 09:11 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedrck46
You Progressive will catch the low voltage PROVIDED the input voltage drops to a certain set point it would then cut power to your TT until the voltage comes back to or past that set point. It will also will do the same for an overvoltage condition.
Recommend you read the manual for your Progressive unit to get a better understand as to how the over/under voltage works
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Fair enough, but the question I really have is, if that under-voltage is small enough to not trip the EMS, is it potentially causing an A/C problem?
__________________
2017 Eagle HT 29.5 BHDS
2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, CC/SB, 6.0L w/B&W hitch system
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07-21-2017, 09:15 AM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 35
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We are upgrading to a 2nd A/C next spring either way, but my concern is if this is a power supply problem, adding a 2nd A/C will further exasperate the issue. I don't expect the trailer to hang out a 60 degrees during the heat of the day, but a 3-5 degree outside/inside difference just seem like a bad design. Our previous Keystone Passport was longer, with a 13.5k btu A/C and never had this type of issue. And that was an "entry-level" camper compared to our Eagle. I'd have expected the Eagle to have more insulation and better thermal properties compared to a unit half it's cost.
__________________
2017 Eagle HT 29.5 BHDS
2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, CC/SB, 6.0L w/B&W hitch system
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07-21-2017, 09:26 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: --
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erren
Fair enough, but the question I really have is, if that under-voltage is small enough to not trip the EMS, is it potentially causing an A/C problem?
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That's what an Autoformer corrects ....
You can still limp on voltage that is not ideal but just high enough to not trip your EMS. The Autoformer will boost you 10%.
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2023 Ford F-150 XLT SCREW 3.5EB (Max Tow Pkg., Black Appearance Pkg., Bed Utility Pkg.)
1727 Payload / 4150 RAWR
On the sidelines taking it all in.
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07-21-2017, 09:33 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 68
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Something seems weird. As you stated, one day when the temperature/humidity was more extreame, it appeared to work fine at one campground, but didn't work at all at another campground.
It does appear that the quality of the power played a role. Have you been able to verify that the A/C works ok now, separate from the dealer test? I would have expected if the power dropped enough to cause a problem that the EMS should have done something. Will need to research how the EMS works with a 50Amp vs 30Amp service, as the 50 amp has two legs of power (240V vs 120V). You could have potentially had a low voltage on only one leg that caused the A/C issue, but didn't bother the EMS trip circuit.
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Alex and Rachel Johnson - Cincinnati, OH
Four kids, 12 and under 2016 Jayco x23B - 2013 Dodge Durango Citadel - 2006 Land Rover LR3 SE
Retired - 1996 Coleman Cheyenne Pop-Up RIP Chloe, a very good dog - 9/15/01-12/02/17
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07-21-2017, 09:38 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 35
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I ran it for about 45 mins on generator the following weekend while I was cutting grass. The trailer did drop a degree or two, but I didn't start it until it was already 90+ outside. No A/C is going to keep up with that.
Going to get the trailer back and take it out a few more times to test it. My biggest concern is my wife is 7 months pregnant, so not having reliable A/C torpedoes plans to get out the next few months.
__________________
2017 Eagle HT 29.5 BHDS
2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, CC/SB, 6.0L w/B&W hitch system
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07-21-2017, 09:40 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erren
Fair enough, but the question I really have is, if that under-voltage is small enough to not trip the EMS, is it potentially causing an A/C problem?
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I think it is fairly unlikely that slightly low voltage would cause the issue you describe. The rotational speed of AC motors is largely a function of line frequency. So low voltage does not equal low speed, as it does with a DC motor. Now, it is possible that low voltage would not allow the compressor to start, but normally you would find that out, real quick, with a blown fuse.
I suppose it is possible that the EMS low voltage setting is just slightly below the voltage requirement for the AC and causing some issue, but it seems a stretch to me.
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2015 Jayco 27RLS
2015 Ford F250 6.7PSD
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07-21-2017, 09:40 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where ever the boss says we're going.
Posts: 16,081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsoax
Will need to research how the EMS works with a 50Amp vs 30Amp service, as the 50 amp has two legs of power (240V vs 120V). You could have potentially had a low voltage on only one leg that caused the A/C issue, but didn't bother the EMS trip circuit.
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It will shut down if either leg drops.
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07-21-2017, 09:40 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 68
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Reading the manual, it looks like it shuts down power if the voltage is under 104 or above 132. You will have to check your A/C manual to see if 104 is in the operating range it wants... Normally when you lower voltage, you raise current to do the same "work"... But the A/C could have a voltage protection circuit that doesn't let the compressor run under a certain voltage.
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Alex and Rachel Johnson - Cincinnati, OH
Four kids, 12 and under 2016 Jayco x23B - 2013 Dodge Durango Citadel - 2006 Land Rover LR3 SE
Retired - 1996 Coleman Cheyenne Pop-Up RIP Chloe, a very good dog - 9/15/01-12/02/17
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07-21-2017, 09:45 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where ever the boss says we're going.
Posts: 16,081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsoax
But the A/C could have a voltage protection circuit that doesn't let the compressor run under a certain voltage.
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That is also 103-104
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07-22-2017, 10:44 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Springfield
Posts: 558
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Your rig is 29 foot. It is on the large size for a single air conditioner to keep up. These rigs are big boxes, poorly insulated, and surrounded by heat. Your orientation to the sun also makes a difference. If your 90 degrees toward the sun you have a much greater greenhouse effect than if your inline with the sun, with the exception of the windshield if you have one. Block the sun as much as possible. Windows are a major solar collection array. Good luck with it.
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07-22-2017, 12:22 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,588
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We had our rig down in Michigan at the beginning of June during an insane heat wave (insane to my Canadian self, maybe not you Southern folk). We were parked in a driveway in full sun. They day we arrived it was 90* according to my truck, and disgustingly humid on top of that. I plugged into 30amp and the 13.5K BTU air conditioner had my trailer cooled down to 75 within a half hour and water was pouring out of my gutter spouts. I do not have the thermal package. Your trailer has greater internal volume than mine but I think there is a problem with yours. Maybe pull the cover off the AC and check to make sure nothing is nesting in there and plugging up the condenser? Or maybe there is a freon leak?
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2013 F-150 EcoBoost MaxTow, Roush tuned (415hp 506tq), lifted on 33s, R.A.S.
2013 Jay Flight 28BHS Elite (Equalizer 10K hitch)
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07-22-2017, 11:40 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: liberty
Posts: 13
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I would check that the vents arent leaking cold air into the roof. I would have to say that's not really what you should expect. If it can't cool you down more than 4° at 86 outside temp than there is something not right. It might have a great 20° drop but if some of those vents are leaking into the roof then you don't have the volume. 20° drop is great but you need more than a tickle of air.
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07-23-2017, 07:00 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 2,210
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I am on the side that if the voltage was good enough for your EMS to keep engaged then the unit should cool. My EMS was going off for an hour last weekend due to low voltage once everyone kicked on coffee pots and micros during breakfast and dinner. My display read 94 volts at one point.
Without protection like an EMS an A/C could permanently die. With protection you just loose power and it needs to cycle again once power is restored to your unit through the EMS.
The A/C's have a timed restart built into them once they shut down and if they continually get shut down it would result in a hot camper.
Every model is going to have it's challenges when it comes to cooling and heating. For starters the vent array and setup will make a difference with air flow. Consider adding vents into the unit down stream and closing others off closer to the supply.
Do you have a whisper quiet setup? Is the air dam separating the return from the flow air shifted or leaking? They are only a rigid piece of foam in most.
Are your filters clean?
Do you have a black A/C roof cover? Check out the reflectix mod on this forum for your air box. I did this and my unit is 3-4 degrees cooler for it.
There is a laundry list of checks, but start with the source and vents.
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2014 375 BHFS Eagle Premier
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07-27-2017, 02:21 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 1,148
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In full sun, running only one of our two A/C's cannot keep up with the heat load when the temps are over 95F. We run two of them most of the day in those conditions. It does help to put the awning out when the sun is hitting that side of the trailer. Also, we are set up for 50A service.
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2017 Eagle HT 29.5BHOK (sold)
2017 Ford Powerstroke 6.7, Crew, 4x4 (sold)
2018 Toyota Highlander
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07-27-2017, 03:30 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,804
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20 degrees cooler is pretty much the industry standard, give or take.
One AC in a big camper won't do as well as 2 AC's. I have a 29QBS with 1 15K AC, didn't want to upgrade to 50amp and 2 units. During the day try to block windows to reduce solar heat gain. Reflective window covers will help quite a bit. Campers aren't very efficient, you have to make the best of what you've got.
Good luck.
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07-28-2017, 01:41 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBound
We had our rig down in Michigan at the beginning of June during an insane heat wave (insane to my Canadian self, maybe not you Southern folk). We were parked in a driveway in full sun. They day we arrived it was 90* according to my truck, and disgustingly humid on top of that. I plugged into 30amp and the 13.5K BTU air conditioner had my trailer cooled down to 75 within a half hour and water was pouring out of my gutter spouts. I do not have the thermal package. Your trailer has greater internal volume than mine but I think there is a problem with yours. Maybe pull the cover off the AC and check to make sure nothing is nesting in there and plugging up the condenser? Or maybe there is a freon leak?
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I stand corrected. I apparently have the 15K unit after some inspecting. My apologies for the misleading info.
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2013 F-150 EcoBoost MaxTow, Roush tuned (415hp 506tq), lifted on 33s, R.A.S.
2013 Jay Flight 28BHS Elite (Equalizer 10K hitch)
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