1/2 Ton Miracles and Magic

[motorbreath]

How about some concrete examples instead of a few vague anecdotes...one might get the impression that you are trying to rile people up for no legitimate reason.

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

Increasingly we see and read about 1/2 ton trucks towing very substantial fivers and travel trailers. We are just trying to get our minds around this. The trucks are RAM, Silverado, and F150. When we talk to the owners, they tell us things like, "It 'idles' up steep grades," "Tons of power for passing," "No problems with brake fade," and "Doesn't effect the suspension at all." If 1/2 tons are all that, why not just eliminate the category? They sound like 3/4 tons.

Personally, I find all of this very hard to believe. Our fully tow-equipped RAM Tradesman HD is not the truck that I would choose for towing these lengthy, weighty trailers, definitely the 3/4 ton (+) for safety, performance, and vehicle wear and tear. We also have never understood all of the "Don't even know it's back there" talk. I have always "known it's back there" whether I tow a Ditch Witch, a small cargo trailer, a PUP, or our TT.

[SkyBound]

With a half ton truck, take the most limiting factor (payload, axle rating, hitch rating) and divide that corresponding tongue weight by 0.15. THAT is how much your truck can actually tow, not the advertised specs.

For example: My truck is advertised to tow 11,100lbs according to Ford. My hitch, however, is rated to a max tongue weight of 1,150lbs with the use of a weight distribution hitch. Therefore, 1,150/0.15 = 7667lbs total trailer weight.

Another example: A hypothetical truck has 1500lbs of payload and an advertised tow rating of 9000lbs. Your family and gear weighs in at 800lbs, leaving you with 700lbs of available payload. 700/0.15 = 4667 total trailer weight.

This is assuming 15% tongue weight which I understand is on the higher end of preferred tongue weights, but similar calculations can be done using 14% or 13% etc.

I factored these limitations into my trailer purchase and bought a perfectly suited trailer for my truck.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by motorbreath

How about some concrete examples instead of a few vague anecdotes...one might get the impression that you are trying to rile people up for no legitimate reason.

Not trying to "rile" anyone or anything - I simply wrote about observations that I have. I increasingly see people towing very large travel trailers and fivers with half ton trucks, and these people tell me what I said they tell me about their truck's capabilities. I also commented on my personal take on the matter. I think we can do that. Can we share and flesh-out our thoughts, concerns, and opinions about our RV experiences?

I am not sure why you would read it any other way or what "concrete" examples you want. Do you want me to record folks I speak with on the road and/or video them towing with their half tons? Sorry that the text which is void of voice, body language, and facial expression causes you to read too much into it - It happens with the medium . . . Similarly, "one might get the impression" that you tow a Montana with a Jetta.

[Vaquero]

I worry more about the soccer mom with the smart phone.

Most of us realize our capabilities as well as those of our equipment.
The distracted driver is a bigger issue today.

[NVGun40]

Originally Posted by scottyt24

So, based on this thread, because I bought a half ton, I should only be choosing to tow a pop up and would be crazy to tow anything else?

And I am not to believe the payload sticker, my axle weight limits or the little sticker on my hitch that tells me how much tongue weight it can handle?

And even if I weigh everything and am still under what the manufacturer says is ok, I should not even consider pulling a larger trailer?


I love this forum and have gotten a lot of good feedback on questions, but it always seems like if you tow with a half ton, you are treated like you are a moron.

I get that more truck is better. I get that there are probably folks who are towing more than they should. That may also even be happening on 3/4 tons. But, post a question about towing and tow vehicles and dare mention the word half ton, be prepared for the attacks to come on how crazy you are for even considering it.

I have a Silverado half ton with max tow package. I also have almost 1900 lbs payload and 7600 lb GVWR. And you're telling me that the only thing it should be capable of towing is a pop up??

Please do not take offense or consider this as such a one sided issue. Nobody is saying that half tons should ONLY be towing pop-ups or hybrids. There are many trailers and fifth wheels which are capable of being towed by properly equipped 1/2 tons. Even a couple of 1/2 ton owners have chimed in on this very thread who are towing very nice sized trailers.
What I think the OP and many others here are conveying is the belief by many 1/2 ton owners that their trucks are just as capable, if not more capable than the 3/4 tons and up. Which is simply not the case. In many aspects, the 1/2 tons get close to the 3/4 tons but they still cannot do as much simply by virtue of the lighter frame and suspension components. Even with add on's to beef up suspensions, the fact there is a very significant difference between a 1/2 tons frame and suspension and drive train and the 3/4 tons and up frames, suspensions and drive trains still must be a factor to consider.
It seems like there are a growing number of people out there who are towing trailers which are too big for the truck they have and they talk themselves into doing so because the numbers fall into place.
Yet just like most things in life there comes a time when things just get too big or "just because the numbers say you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing".

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by Vaquero

They couldn't tell it was back there.

I have no idea how you miss something like that, it was evident they had been driving for more than a mile or two, the tire was gone and the rim looked like it was on fire sparks everywhere and while not totally dark it was dark enough for me to have on my headlights. But some folks do not pay attention.

Worse they looked and me and my wife as if we were crazy, yelling, pointing...FINALLY he rolled down his window and my wife screamed FIRE. Then he pulled over.

[Vaquero]

It was a sarcastic post.
Sorry.

[M&A]

Still won't beat the toilet paper thread.

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by SkyBound

With a half ton truck, take the most limiting factor (payload, axle rating, hitch rating) and divide that corresponding tongue weight by 0.15. THAT is how much your truck can actually tow, not the advertised specs.

For example: My truck is advertised to tow 11,100lbs according to Ford. My hitch, however, is rated to a max tongue weight of 1,150lbs with the use of a weight distribution hitch. Therefore, 1,150/0.15 = 7667lbs total trailer weight.

Another example: A hypothetical truck has 1500lbs of payload and an advertised tow rating of 9000lbs. Your family and gear weighs in at 800lbs, leaving you with 700lbs of available payload. 700/0.15 = 4667 total trailer weight.

This is assuming 15% tongue weight which I understand is on the higher end of preferred tongue weights, but similar calculations can be done using 14% or 13% etc.

I factored these limitations into my trailer purchase and bought a perfectly suited trailer for my truck.

I would disagree with your numbers. The rating given by the mfg is well within the parameters of the truck or the lawyers would never approve, it would have lawsuit written all over it. In fact the mfg numbers are well within the safety envelope.

That said it may NOT deliver the driving experience you expect or want. You might find your world is Right lane driving only and they may not be what you want.


As for a ½T pulling a rig, the Eagle HT was in fact designed for that according to Jayco. Here again its not the fault of the camper if your half ton is not properly equipped. In addition if your driving style is left lane at the posted limit you may not be happy with the results. I personally, have been driving F 350's too many years to drop down to a smaller truck. My Eagle HT has little or no effect on my truck at all, not even sure but I think I have 925 lbs of torque.

The weight of your rig poses a lot of questions about what you pull it with, answer them carefully or you could be disappointed, but don't blame the camper or the truck...

[motorbreath]

I suggest that you talk to those people you observe towing "large" trailers with 1500s and find out the whole story. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but I doubt this thread is going to change their minds. On the other hand, people come to these forums all the time to have a constructive discussion about what they should buy to tow their 5000# trailer and a decent number of people always chime up saying if they don't buy a 3500 DRW diesel they are threatening their family's safety.

In my opinion, these types of threads are not useful without an actual trailer and it's specs. THEN we can talk about which truck, as long as it ain't a Ford😀.

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

Not trying to "rile" anyone or anything - I simply wrote about observations that I have. I increasingly see people towing very large travel trailers and fivers with half ton trucks, and these people tell me what I said they tell me about their truck's capabilities. I also commented on my personal take on the matter. I think we can do that. Can we share and flesh-out our thoughts, concerns, and opinions about our RV experiences?

I am not sure why you would read it any other way or what "concrete" examples you want. Do you want me to record folks I speak with on the road and/or video them towing with their half tons? Sorry that the text which is void of voice, body language, and facial expression causes you to read too much into it - It happens with the medium . . . Similarly, "one might get the impression" that you tow a Montana with a Jetta.

[SkyBound]

Originally Posted by 17 Oaks

I would disagree with your numbers. The rating given by the mfg is well within the parameters of the truck or the lawyers would never approve, it would have lawsuit written all over it. In fact the mfg numbers are well within the safety envelope.

That said it may NOT deliver the driving experience you expect or want. You might find your world is Right lane driving only and they may not be what you want.


As for a ½T pulling a rig, the Eagle HT was in fact designed for that according to Jayco. Here again its not the fault of the camper if your half ton is not properly equipped. In addition if your driving style is left lane at the posted limit you may not be happy with the results. I personally, have been driving F 350's too many years to drop down to a smaller truck. My Eagle HT has little or no effect on my truck at all, not even sure but I think I have 925 lbs of torque.

The weight of your rig poses a lot of questions about what you pull it with, answer them carefully or you could be disappointed, but don't blame the camper or the truck...

You can't disagree with my numbers because they aren't MY numbers. The reason these limitations are significant is by virtue of the travel trailer/fifth wheel design.

The max trailer tow weight advertised by the manufacturer is a function of total GCWR minus the unloaded vehicle weight. As soon as you start putting people or gear in the truck, that max trailer weight value starts decreasing.

If you had a wagon type trailer with a front axle with nearly zero tongue weight then this figure would be more relevant. Similarly, one could haul a heavier boat than travel trailer with the same truck because of the lesser tongue weight chipping away at that payload.

If a hitch is limited to 1,150lb like mine is, you won't be able to tow a 11,100lb travel trailer (max advertised weight) because by nature of design the tongue weight would exceed that.

Keep in mind the example used in my previous post was 15% tongue weight, and again I will say some trailers will be under that rendering the total trailer weight that can be towed higher.

[bono]

SkyBound, it all depends... you are using 15% TW in your calculations. The minimum TW in the US is recommended 10%. In Europe it is between 6 and 8%. Why? Because the trailers are smaller (shorter) and the speed limits are lower. I have TW around 10% and with ProPride hitch it is solid as rock. However, I am usually towing 55-60 mph (55 mph is max in CA). If I tow 50 mph, I guess 8% TW would be enough.

Again, it all depends on the setup, speed, etc.

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by bono

SkyBound, it all depends... you are using 15% TW in your calculations. The minimum TW in the US is recommended 10%. In Europe it is between 6 and 8%. Why? Because the trailers are smaller (shorter) and the speed limits are lower. I have TW around 10% and with ProPride hitch it is solid as rock. However, I am usually towing 55-60 mph (55 mph is max in CA). If I tow 50 mph, I guess 8% TW would be enough.

Again, it all depends on the setup, speed, etc.

You are right. Your starting point is the parameters of the your truck make and model, from there you can buy your camper. To often folks buy the camper (frequently with bad advice of the camper sales person) and hope it fits the truck which at that time may well be a crap shoot especially if you already own the truck. My first camper I spent a couple of years researching and looking then picking the make and model we wanted. Then matched it to the truck, bought truck and found my camper for sale. All in about 2 weeks...do your homework and then take the test...

[Camper_bob]

It's not just 1/2T class trucks. I've seen plenty of 3/4T class trucks towing rigs they have no business towing. Mostly large fifth wheels. I think that number on the fender gives people a false sense of security. They think "yeah, I went with the 3/4 T truck, I can pull anything". That's not the case. That false sense of security makes them complacent and they don't look at the numbers. There are 3/4T class trucks that have LESS payload than a well equipped 1/2T class truck. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but it can happen.

Really, the bottom line is to weigh it. Whatever it is, just get it weighed. After you've weighed it, you need to ensure your expectations are realistic. I towed at the top of my capacity for a while, and I didn't like it. My expectations weren't in line with reality. I figured the numbers, and I was just barely under, so on paper I was good. When I put my butt in the seat and drove it, it wasn't so good for me. And I think that's the key, "for me". Someone else may have been fine where I was. It wasn't dangerous, just wasn't ideal for my situation. So I made a change.

And I may suggest a member consider a 3/4T truck if they are approaching the max on their potential 1/2T class truck. But if they end up choosing the 1/2T class truck, I don't care. It's not my money, and it's not my life. So long as it's not an obvious danger to everyone else on the road, it has nothing to do with me. I simply offer my experience here on occasion more as a show of support and additional information than a "finger-shaking" scolding on what a person "should" or "should not" do.

1/2T class trucks ARE becoming more capable machines. So are the HD trucks. But to a point, it's all marketing. You still need to pay attention to the actual specifications of your specific equipment and make prudent decisions accordingly. That doesn't ever change, no matter what truck or trailer someone is considering.

I also happen to agree that the bigger threat to our safety out there is distracted driving. I've seen WAY too many distracted driving incidents that could have been, and I've almost been hit several times (managed to avoid because I AM paying attention) and I don't really even spend that much time out on the roads.

[motorbreath]

Well said!

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

It's not just 1/2T class trucks. I've seen plenty of 3/4T class trucks towing rigs they have no business towing. Mostly large fifth wheels. I think that number on the fender gives people a false sense of security. They think "yeah, I went with the 3/4 T truck, I can pull anything". That's not the case. That false sense of security makes them complacent and they don't look at the numbers. There are 3/4T class trucks that have LESS payload than a well equipped 1/2T class truck. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but it can happen.

Really, the bottom line is to weigh it. Whatever it is, just get it weighed. After you've weighed it, you need to ensure your expectations are realistic. I towed at the top of my capacity for a while, and I didn't like it. My expectations weren't in line with reality. I figured the numbers, and I was just barely under, so on paper I was good. When I put my butt in the seat and drove it, it wasn't so good for me. And I think that's the key, "for me". Someone else may have been fine where I was. It wasn't dangerous, just wasn't ideal for my situation. So I made a change.

And I may suggest a member consider a 3/4T truck if they are approaching the max on their potential 1/2T class truck. But if they end up choosing the 1/2T class truck, I don't care. It's not my money, and it's not my life. So long as it's not an obvious danger to everyone else on the road, it has nothing to do with me. I simply offer my experience here on occasion more as a show of support and additional information than a "finger-shaking" scolding on what a person "should" or "should not" do.

1/2T class trucks ARE becoming more capable machines. So are the HD trucks. But to a point, it's all marketing. You still need to pay attention to the actual specifications of your specific equipment and make prudent decisions accordingly. That doesn't ever change, no matter what truck or trailer someone is considering.

I also happen to agree that the bigger threat to our safety out there is distracted driving. I've seen WAY too many distracted driving incidents that could have been, and I've almost been hit several times (managed to avoid because I AM paying attention) and I don't really even spend that much time out on the roads.

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

It's not just 1/2T class trucks. I've seen plenty of 3/4T class trucks towing rigs they have no business towing. Mostly large fifth wheels. I think that number on the fender gives people a false sense of security. They think "yeah, I went with the 3/4 T truck, I can pull anything". That's not the case. That false sense of security makes them complacent and they don't look at the numbers. There are 3/4T class trucks that have LESS payload than a well equipped 1/2T class truck. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but it can happen.

Really, the bottom line is to weigh it. Whatever it is, just get it weighed. After you've weighed it, you need to ensure your expectations are realistic. I towed at the top of my capacity for a while, and I didn't like it. My expectations weren't in line with reality. I figured the numbers, and I was just barely under, so on paper I was good. When I put my butt in the seat and drove it, it wasn't so good for me. And I think that's the key, "for me". Someone else may have been fine where I was. It wasn't dangerous, just wasn't ideal for my situation. So I made a change.

And I may suggest a member consider a 3/4T truck if they are approaching the max on their potential 1/2T class truck. But if they end up choosing the 1/2T class truck, I don't care. It's not my money, and it's not my life. So long as it's not an obvious danger to everyone else on the road, it has nothing to do with me. I simply offer my experience here on occasion more as a show of support and additional information than a "finger-shaking" scolding on what a person "should" or "should not" do.

1/2T class trucks ARE becoming more capable machines. So are the HD trucks. But to a point, it's all marketing. You still need to pay attention to the actual specifications of your specific equipment and make prudent decisions accordingly. That doesn't ever change, no matter what truck or trailer someone is considering.

I also happen to agree that the bigger threat to our safety out there is distracted driving. I've seen WAY too many distracted driving incidents that could have been, and I've almost been hit several times (managed to avoid because I AM paying attention) and I don't really even spend that much time out on the roads.

Good advice.

I have never owned a ¾ T or a 250xx, its either a 1/2T or a 1T. The tariff to go 1T is so little over the ¾ not sure why you would not make the jump...but I am a retired engineer and have never built to meet specs, I build to exceed specs. I believe you must assume there will be a time in the lifecycle that requirements will exceed the parameters...but that is just me...

[bono]

What were they thinking not that long time ago...

[GraftonGuns]

I traded in my 2008 F-250 for a "cute Little" 2016 F-150. I like the ride of the F-150 much better obviously. And I don't wear a 10 gallon hat either.

[Camper_bob]

HA! I don't wear a 10-gallon hat, but my boots are muddy and so is my truck. While I do not work in agriculture, (I have A LOT of clients who do) I live in rural Texas, AKA "Truck Country". There are LOTS of trucks here. Many have mud on them and tools/feed in the bed, or a welder, or a round bale ... often accompanied by a pretty rough looking canine.

That being said, I use my truck as a truck, that is to say, I put it to work when it's called for. It gets dents, and scratches, and is often dirty despite my best efforts (DW will get it washed on the rare occasion she drives it). I USE my 4-wheel-drive fairly often, and my truck has seen its share of heavy loads. But then that's what I bought it for. If I just needed something to go from A to B ... ah, who am I kidding?! I would STILL get a truck! Even a "cute" truck is still a truck!

I LOVE my truck, and I LOVED my last truck (broke my heart to trade it). I guess I was just made to drive a truck. I drove a Nissan Altima for about 5 years, and I hated it. Only reason I owned it was because I had some horrible commutes during those years, and the fuel was killing me.

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by GraftonGuns

I traded in my 2008 F-250 for a "cute Little" 2016 F-150. I like the ride of the F-150 much better obviously. And I don't wear a 10 gallon hat either.

You may or may not already know this. Ford (a long time ago) figured out that as Texas goes so does the truck market. Texas historically sells more trucks than cars and while it was (back in the days I grew up on a ranch) dominated by Chevy/GMC. I am not sure what all Ford did to capture the market here in Texas since I headed out and made a career in the military, but I do know of one FACT: The designed the cab of the Ford truck higher in order that us Texans can wear out "10 gallon hats" in them. They still do (Chevy and Dodge have not figure it out yet) and I can wear my hat in my truck...