13 ram 1500 and looking at white hawk 28dsbh

[gtsum2]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 2013 ram laramie 1500 4x4 and the wife and think the whitehawk 28dsbh is the perfect fit for us and our 2 and 5 year old sons. I thought we had plenty of room (weight wise) but now I am not so sure??

The build data for our truck model shows a gcvw of 14000, max payload of 1272, max tt weight of 8450. claimed dr weight of the jayco is 5290 with dry tongue weight of 590 and gvw of 7500. i read an article in trailer life or somewhere that recommended reducing the max tt by 10% to start with...That would be about 7605. then take another 890lbs or so for wd hitch, food, supplies, propane, water etc. that gets me to a dry tt weight of 6715 max....well under the claimed dry weight of the 28dsbh.....

i think i am good with trailer weight(?????), but am concerned with tongue weight and payload weight...me, wife, and 2 kids are about 450lbs give or take. Do I add the tongue weight to that to make sure I am not over payload? If so, I would be close without anything in the bed of the truck....I am guessing the true tongue weight when equipped to hit the road would be closer to 700??? This is what has me concerned... I really don't want anything longer, and the floor plan is just what we are looking for, but before we go any further need to see if I am thinking this out correctly.

Also we live in Virginia so we will not be crossing the Rockies,but there are mountains here, so we would certainly not be towing across flat land. Ay input you can lend is greatly appreciated!

[mikmurphy]

first thing to do is to take your TV to a CAT scale and see what it weighs with you, your wife, and your normal load of "stuff," plus a full tank of gas. Once you have that, subtract the CAT weight from your GVWR weight, likely on a sticker on the inside of your TV driver door. IF you're like me, you'll be unpleasantly surprised to find your TV curb weight is surprisingly close to the GVWR. (In my case, 7000 lbs for a Chevy Silverado.) In my case, I'm in the process of upgrading our TV from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton, to be well within safe towing limits. You may find yourself in the same position. Food for thought. See this thread:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...itehawk!/page3

[LongIslandCamper]

My parents tow a much heavier 26rls with their 2013 Big Horn. It's really only the two of them when towing with little things like folding chairs and rugs in the truck bed. I've driven it and it felt great.

My brother tows a 28dsbh with a 2010 Tundra and loves it.

[gtsum2]

well, I suppose a trip to a cat scale is in order with the truck. I guess I should have thought this out a little better...as I honestly didnt realize the limited payload capacity of most 1/2 ton trucks. Ive only had the Ram for 2 1/2 months now...momma wouldn't like me trading it in on a F250 diesel already....I dont think I would like the finances of that as well!

So does the tongue weight need to be included in the payload? I am guessing so...but how do I calculate the tongue weight if using a WD hitch?? (before you actually buy the trailer and get it installed, etc...I realize I can take it to a scale after purchase and setup, but that doesnt help me right now). Is there a rule of thumb? Say the trailer loaded up is 7000 lbs.....13-15% of that is 910-1050lbs...is there a rule of thumb where the actual tongue weight would be less with a WD hitch (like 20% less, 30% less, etc)?

[RaveOn]

The tongue weight as well as the weight of the ball and receiver is subtracted from ur payload. B sure to visit a cat scale to set up according. I found my biggest challenge was with keeping my rear axle weight legal. A bit of adjusting and shuffling did the trick. Lol. Im not sure what ur truck weights but my f150 supercrew full of gas with me in it weights 6140 pounds. I would weight ur truck full of gas to see where u r in terms if ur truck weight. Remember u will load ur truck with stuff so factor that. The wd hitch just dustributes the weight between the front and rear axles. If ur water tanks r behind ur axles u can fill them partially or fully which will reduce ur hitch weight as long as ur tow or combined weight isn't exceded. B sure to know ur front and rear axle weights and stay within them.

[Pitch1]

You do not need to add fuel weight as Ram says truck and all fluids. You need driver passengers and all cargo and after market add ons which includes hitch bars and tongue weight. One thing you might want to consider is the expense of switching over to LT tires. Your p rated tires do have the capacity to legally carry your load, but the stiffer sidewall design of LT's will make for a more stable ride once you get onto curvey, rough mountain roads. Yeah I know that 1000 bucks is a big hit but they will perform much better.
Rams are notorious for soft suspension and many owners will add airbags or adjustable shocks to stiffen the rear end. They will not add any legal capacity to your truck but they do help stabilize every thing.
What you want to do is doable,but is close to the limits. Travel with minimum water in the tanks, maybe 5 or 6 gallons, just enough for bathroom use. You can tweek your tongue weight by moving trailer cargo either fore or aft of the axles. with those numbers I am assuming you have the 5.7, a pulling beast, but in the short steep hills that you are in expect an average of 6 to 8 miles per gallon

[RaveOn]

Fuel may b included in ram payload specs but a full tank will have an effect on ur combined total weight of truck and trailer.

[pjsteve99]

Hey I have a F150 2010 Lariat and had just purchased a 28DSBH and tows no problem. I also have a eq hitch. Good luck.

[Rustic Eagle]

The base "Curb Weight" on most vehicles includes the weight of the "base model" truck in question, 150lb driver, and all fluids including a full tank of fuel.

It should be noted that some of a vehicle's specified Weight Limits are based on it's "Curb Weight" (ie; Tow Ratings). http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by gtsum2

snip..... Also we live in Virginia so we will not be crossing the Rockies,but there are mountains here, so we would certainly not be towing across flat land. Ay input you can lend is greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately a 1/2 ton TV may have an attractive specified GCWR or Tow Rating, but where many fall short is in Payload Capacity, especially as loaded HTT or TT weights start getting on the heavy side. This isn't to say that your proposed TV/TT combination isn't doable, but a little do diligence (as you are doing) may help in your TT selection.

I agree with 'mikmurphy', you already have the TV and thus a brief visit to a CAT scale will eliminate a lot of the guess work. The CAT scale certificate will provide you with the "Gross Weight" of your TV under loaded (or simulated loaded) conditions.., and as mentioned in prior posts subtracting the CAT scale gross weight from your TV's GVWR will tell you how much remaining weight you have for the TT's loaded tongue weight, WDH weight, and any other weight not accounted for at the CAT scale.

The White Hawk 28DSBH is 32 feet long, so 13% to 15% of the loaded TT weight would be the recommended loaded tongue weight for enhanced TV handling. RV and WDH manufactures recommend a 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight range.

Example of a "loaded" White Hawk 28DSBH: (UVW 5,290lbs) + (Ship Weight delta 400lbs) + (RV Dealer; Battery, WDH, etc. 125lbs) + (TT Cargo 700lbs) = 6,515lbs Loaded TT Weight. Loaded Tongue Weight = 846lbs to 977lbs (13% to 15%). Depending on your personal loading habits weights may vary.

A little more JOF info on towing the 28DSBH: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...k-28DSBH/page4

Hope this helps.

Bob

[jamesj]

Originally Posted by Pitch1

One thing you might want to consider is the expense of switching over to LT tires. Your p rated tires do have the capacity to legally carry your load, but the stiffer sidewall design of LT's will make for a more stable ride once you get onto curvey, rough mountain roads.

Be careful on tires. Most of the newer RAM's (2009+) come with TPMS sensors. You cannot put LT tires and fill air to the MAX tire pressure, you'll blow the TPMS sensors out and the computer can go haywire. I just recently researched this for my '09 Ram with 20" tires and TPMS sensors. I purchased Cooper Discover A/T3, which is a 'P' rated tire, however the Cooper designed the side-walls stiffer. These are about a 56,000 mile rated tire and has a weight capacity of 2679lbs. Although the tire has a max pressure of 44psi, I can only put in 36psi so I don't blow the TPMS sensors.

I have a set of AirLift 1000's on the RAM and tow bars with a 10,000lb rating. Our 28DSBH pulls like a dream. Of course gas mileage will not be the best, but I will be adding in a K&N 63 Series High Performance Air Intake kit, which will add about 15.66 HP and 17.5ft/lb more torque. I'd also expect a 2-3MPG increase with this too.

[Jammer]

The numbers don't lie, so you do need to work that stuff out, but I will say that I'm towing a 28DSBH with my 2006 F150, and it tows the same as my old tent trailer. The truck has no problem with it at all...

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The numbers don't lie, so you do need to work that stuff out, ....snip

Just curious, have you weighed your 28DSBH under loaded conditions? It would be interesting for folks to know what loaded tongue and TT weights other owners have incurred.

Bob

[gtsum2]

Originally Posted by mikmurphy

first thing to do is to take your TV to a CAT scale and see what it weighs with you, your wife, and your normal load of "stuff," plus a full tank of gas. Once you have that, subtract the CAT weight from your GVWR weight, likely on a sticker on the inside of your TV driver door. IF you're like me, you'll be unpleasantly surprised to find your TV curb weight is surprisingly close to the GVWR. (In my case, 7000 lbs for a Chevy Silverado.) In my case, I'm in the process of upgrading our TV from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton, to be well within safe towing limits. You may find yourself in the same position. Food for thought. See this thread:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...itehawk!/page3

Thank you sir..I am going to head to a CAT scale tomorrow. My exact truck shows a weight of 5555 on Ram site...so it will be interesting to see what it shows at the scale

Originally Posted by cm11599ps

My parents tow a much heavier 26rls with their 2013 Big Horn. It's really only the two of them when towing with little things like folding chairs and rugs in the truck bed. I've driven it and it felt great.

My brother tows a 28dsbh with a 2010 Tundra and loves it.

I might have hope then! Thanks!

Originally Posted by RaveOn

The tongue weight as well as the weight of the ball and receiver is subtracted from ur payload. B sure to visit a cat scale to set up according. I found my biggest challenge was with keeping my rear axle weight legal. A bit of adjusting and shuffling did the trick. Lol. Im not sure what ur truck weights but my f150 supercrew full of gas with me in it weights 6140 pounds. I would weight ur truck full of gas to see where u r in terms if ur truck weight. Remember u will load ur truck with stuff so factor that. The wd hitch just dustributes the weight between the front and rear axles. If ur water tanks r behind ur axles u can fill them partially or fully which will reduce ur hitch weight as long as ur tow or combined weight isn't exceded. B sure to know ur front and rear axle weights and stay within them.

I am guessing I will be right close to your weight as well....I am also seeing that RAM trucks tend to NOT have as much payload capacity as Fords...and I was going to get a King Ranch Ford too....

Originally Posted by pjsteve99

Hey I have a F150 2010 Lariat and had just purchased a 28DSBH and tows no problem. I also have a eq hitch. Good luck.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Unfortunately a 1/2 ton TV may have an attractive specified GCWR or Tow Rating, but where many fall short is in Payload Capacity, especially as loaded HTT or TT weights start getting on the heavy side. This isn't to say that your proposed TV/TT combination isn't doable, but a little do diligence (as you are doing) may help in your TT selection.

I agree with 'mikmurphy', you already have the TV and thus a brief visit to a CAT scale will eliminate a lot of the guess work. The CAT scale certificate will provide you with the "Gross Weight" of your TV under loaded (or simulated loaded) conditions.., and as mentioned in prior posts subtracting the CAT scale gross weight from your TV's GVWR will tell you how much remaining weight you have for the TT's loaded tongue weight, WDH weight, and any other weight not accounted for at the CAT scale.

The White Hawk 28DSBH is 32 feet long, so 13% to 15% of the loaded TT weight would be the recommended loaded tongue weight for enhanced TV handling. RV and WDH manufactures recommend a 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight range.

Example of a "loaded" White Hawk 28DSBH: (UVW 5,290lbs) + (Ship Weight delta 400lbs) + (RV Dealer; Battery, WDH, etc. 125lbs) + (TT Cargo 700lbs) = 6,515lbs Loaded TT Weight. Loaded Tongue Weight = 846lbs to 977lbs (13% to 15%). Depending on your personal loading habits weights may vary.

A little more JOF info on towing the 28DSBH: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...k-28DSBH/page4

Hope this helps.

Bob

That helps a lot..thanks! I am thinking the payload is going to catch up with me quickly....I wasnt really looking to get a trailer so soon, but you know how that goes sometimes. If payload is only around 1000 lbs real world weight, then I have issues obviously. I was thinking to get a TT around 6500-7000lbs loaded weight and that would give me plenty of room under the 8400 max tow rating on my Ram....apparently I was quite wrong in assuming it would be that simple (I didnt take into account payload capacity)

.....is there a rough estimate of actual tongue weight when using a WD hitch? Ie...if the tongue weight of 977lbs is used in your example above, how much of that 977 would actually be on the tongue with a WD hitch (since it transfers xxxxx% to the front? Or is that completely offbase? if so, I need to look at a smaller trailer or 2500 truck...

[gtsum2]

Originally Posted by mikmurphy

first thing to do is to take your TV to a CAT scale and see what it weighs with you, your wife, and your normal load of "stuff," plus a full tank of gas. Once you have that, subtract the CAT weight from your GVWR weight, likely on a sticker on the inside of your TV driver door. IF you're like me, you'll be unpleasantly surprised to find your TV curb weight is surprisingly close to the GVWR. (In my case, 7000 lbs for a Chevy Silverado.) In my case, I'm in the process of upgrading our TV from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton, to be well within safe towing limits. You may find yourself in the same position. Food for thought. See this thread:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...itehawk!/page3

Originally Posted by cm11599ps

My parents tow a much heavier 26rls with their 2013 Big Horn. It's really only the two of them when towing with little things like folding chairs and rugs in the truck bed. I've driven it and it felt great.

My brother tows a 28dsbh with a 2010 Tundra and loves it.

Originally Posted by RaveOn

The tongue weight as well as the weight of the ball and receiver is subtracted from ur payload. B sure to visit a cat scale to set up according. I found my biggest challenge was with keeping my rear axle weight legal. A bit of adjusting and shuffling did the trick. Lol. Im not sure what ur truck weights but my f150 supercrew full of gas with me in it weights 6140 pounds. I would weight ur truck full of gas to see where u r in terms if ur truck weight. Remember u will load ur truck with stuff so factor that. The wd hitch just dustributes the weight between the front and rear axles. If ur water tanks r behind ur axles u can fill them partially or fully which will reduce ur hitch weight as long as ur tow or combined weight isn't exceded. B sure to know ur front and rear axle weights and stay within them.

Originally Posted by pjsteve99

Hey I have a F150 2010 Lariat and had just purchased a 28DSBH and tows no problem. I also have a eq hitch. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Unfortunately a 1/2 ton TV may have an attractive specified GCWR or Tow Rating, but where many fall short is in Payload Capacity, especially as loaded HTT or TT weights start getting on the heavy side. This isn't to say that your proposed TV/TT combination isn't doable, but a little do diligence (as you are doing) may help in your TT selection.

I agree with 'mikmurphy', you already have the TV and thus a brief visit to a CAT scale will eliminate a lot of the guess work. The CAT scale certificate will provide you with the "Gross Weight" of your TV under loaded (or simulated loaded) conditions.., and as mentioned in prior posts subtracting the CAT scale gross weight from your TV's GVWR will tell you how much remaining weight you have for the TT's loaded tongue weight, WDH weight, and any other weight not accounted for at the CAT scale.

The White Hawk 28DSBH is 32 feet long, so 13% to 15% of the loaded TT weight would be the recommended loaded tongue weight for enhanced TV handling. RV and WDH manufactures recommend a 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight range.

Example of a "loaded" White Hawk 28DSBH: (UVW 5,290lbs) + (Ship Weight delta 400lbs) + (RV Dealer; Battery, WDH, etc. 125lbs) + (TT Cargo 700lbs) = 6,515lbs Loaded TT Weight. Loaded Tongue Weight = 846lbs to 977lbs (13% to 15%). Depending on your personal loading habits weights may vary.

A little more JOF info on towing the 28DSBH: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...k-28DSBH/page4

Hope this helps.

Bob

Originally Posted by jamesj

Be careful on tires. Most of the newer RAM's (2009+) come with TPMS sensors. You cannot put LT tires and fill air to the MAX tire pressure, you'll blow the TPMS sensors out and the computer can go haywire. I just recently researched this for my '09 Ram with 20" tires and TPMS sensors. I purchased Cooper Discover A/T3, which is a 'P' rated tire, however the Cooper designed the side-walls stiffer. These are about a 56,000 mile rated tire and has a weight capacity of 2679lbs. Although the tire has a max pressure of 44psi, I can only put in 36psi so I don't blow the TPMS sensors.

I have a set of AirLift 1000's on the RAM and tow bars with a 10,000lb rating. Our 28DSBH pulls like a dream. Of course gas mileage will not be the best, but I will be adding in a K&N 63 Series High Performance Air Intake kit, which will add about 15.66 HP and 17.5ft/lb more torque. I'd also expect a 2-3MPG increase with this too.

That is good to know. Mine are 20's with the TPMS also. What kind of mileage do you normally get? I assumed I would have to get some air bags, as the rear end sure does seem soft with a atv in the bed and 2 more on the trailer...I have never weighed that, but I would guess 2600-2800lbs for the loaded atv trailer, and another 400 in the bed for the kid's atv...for all I know that might be close to the payload (it pulls like a dream through the mountains though loaded like that...much smaller trailer obviously)

[gtsum2]

Hmmm...I typed a few responses but they never posted for some reason? Thanks for all the input. It has been invaluable. I still cannot believe that the sticker on my door says max cargo is 1061lbs....the wife's minivan has a cargo rating of 1150?!!?!?!?! Unbelievable really.

So, the main question remaining, is when using a wd hitch, does that actually transfer weight to the front axles of the truck as well as weight to the trailer tires? In effect, does it reduce the actual tongue weight when the everything is all hooked up? As noted above, based on a 6500lb gross trailer weight, the tongue weight should be 13-15% or 845-975lbs. Does the wd hitch actually make those Tw's lower or not? If not, then I see no way how my truck could tow anything over 500lb tongue weight (me and family and min gear would be around 500lbs). If that is the case, that is pretty sad for a $50k pickup truck. Basically nothing over a popup camper.....if so, looks like I will be selling the ram.

[mikmurphy]

All I can say is that my experience with a 2011 Chevy Silverado rated to 7000 GVWR is that it sounded more than ample until I got it on the CAT scale. When I saw the "unloaded" weight of my truck with me, another passenger and a full tank of gas was 6620 lbs, I knew I would be in trouble throwing another 975 lbs tongue weight of a fully loaded White Hawk onto the truck, without adding in anything that most of us would throw into the bed of a truck for a long camping trip. My solution: see my new signature. It cost me about $9500 to upgrade, but I will have much more peace of mind when crossing the Rockies this August. (Re: your question on the WD hitch, Jayco says they use 13% of the maximum trailer weight, which on the 27DSRL is 7500 lbs, meaning 975 lbs transfers to the TV, at least in our case.)

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by gtsum2

snip...... does that actually transfer weight to the front axles of the truck as well as weight to the trailer tires? ........snip

Gtsum2,

Yes...., When the WDH spring bars are engaged, weight is removed off the TV's rear axle, then distributed to the TV's front axle and TT axles, but the actual TT tongue weight that was placed on the hitch ball basically remains the same.

When the TT tongue weight is placed on the hitch ball the result is the front of the TV rises (weight removed) and the rear of the TV squats (weight added). The WDH objective in most cases is to return the same weight back to the front of TV that was removed when the TT tongue was placed on the hitch ball....., thus re-establishing the TV's front suspension steering/braking characteristics. Another by-product of engaging the WDH is that some weight from the TV will be distributed to the TT axles. The only way to confirm how much weight has been distributed, and where, is a visit to a CAT scale.

Originally Posted by gtsum2

snip...... In effect, does it reduce the actual tongue weight when the everything is all hooked up?.....snip...... Does the wd hitch actually make those Tw's lower or not? ........snip

As mentioned above, the TT tongue weight for the most part remains the same over the hitch ball. However, the WDH does transfer some TV weight back to the TT axles which in effect reduces some weight load against the TV. Since every TV/TT combination reacts differently with a WDH (different suspensions, frames, etc.), only a CAT scale can tell how much weight has been transfered to the TT axles. I have seen this weight amount equal about 10% to 20% of the TT's tongue weight value (ball park).

Please Note: Refer to your TV's owners manual in the Towing Section for the specifications when using a WDH. In some cases the TV manufacture doesn't require all the weight removed from the front suspension to be returned when using a WDH...., Ford and GM have revised their recommendations on some of the newer models. The following JOF thread (lengthy & detailed) touches a little on Ford & GM's recent WDH usage changes: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...-General/page6

CAT scale "how to": http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv

Bob

[mikmurphy]

Bob, thanks as always for your clear evaluation of how us 1/2 ton owners should proceed. I, for one, appreciate your candor, your experience, and wisdom.

[Rustic Eagle]

Mike,

Thanks for the positive feedback....., and I'm still learning new stuff from JOF threads like this one as well!

Bob