1st time out towing w/new trailer

[Helibassplyr]

Hello all,

Took my new TT out camping with the wife and I have a couple of questions with setting up my WD hitch. After reading a few of the threads since I got back from my trip I now realize I need to take the trailer over the scales a couple of more times. Based on the numbers I have already, does anyone have some advice on maybe making some adjustments before I go back to the scales. Here's what I got:

TV
2016 Ram 1500 -
3:21 Gears, Crew Cab, 6.4 bed
6900# GVWR, 3900# GAWR for Front & Rear, 13,800 GCWR, 7780 Max Trailer weight rating

TT - 5800 Dry weight, 7000 Max Weight, Axle Ratings at 3500 each

My first time at the CAT scales with an Equalizer hitch and these are the numbers I have:
Steer Axle - 3500
Drive Axle - 4040
Trailer Axle - 5640
GCWR - 13180

Based on these numbers I'm showing being overweight on my truck by 640 lbs,
Overweight on my rear axle by 140 lbs. I'm not sure what exactly my trailer weight is under by that number being that it was hitched to the truck but the max combined weight is under by 620 lbs. It seems to me that that there is a huge difference between the front and rear axles on the truck. What adjustments should I be making with the weight distribution? I do not have any rear sag on my truck but I also have Airlift 1000s installed and inflated to 30PSI. I didn't think that I had a lot of gear in my truck but I do have a truck topper (maybe 200lbs max) and an inbed truck toolbox (about 200lbs). Any ideas how to proceed to get me back within limits. Despite of what the numbers say, the truck towed the trailer fine and I had no issues at all and it was quite windy on the way to the campground, but regardless of how it towed, I would really like to be within limits. If I can't get the weights corrected via WD I guess I will have to take the toolbox out and then the topper if necessary. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[CampNow]

Most folks try to adjust the WDH to get the truck's front axle weight back to what it was empty/unhitched. Did you scale your truck empty/unhitched?

Although, as you say, "the truck towed the trailer fine", you are over your GVWR and RAWR. Suffice to say, it's impossible to gauge how much your axles, bearings, and tires are actually being stressed by a seat-of-the-pants feel. Also, airbags can easily mask mechanical stress and give a false sense of security. It's not uncommon for bearings, axles, and tires to fail catastrophically with no notice. That's why the "numbers" are so important.

[CaptJerry]

1st post so be gentle.
Your post provoked me to register, we have nearly identical trucks and trailer weights.
I researched nearly 6 months before deciding on my trailer and stay within published limits of my truck.

I'm going to make two recommendations right off the bat, then substantiate what I'm saying.

1st WEIGH your truck by itself with you and whoever rides with you!!!
Then you know what your working with. With your toolbox and topper your truck will need to go on a diet.

2nd REDUCE your air bag pressure. No need to run 30lbs all your doing is ADDING rear axle weight. Reference Equalizers video on weight distribution and air bags. I run 12lbs in my air bags only to help with ride. There is no sag.

My truck is a 2017 Ram Big Horn 4x4, same gear 5'7" bed. 5.7 Hemi.
Only difference on gross numbers is my max trailer capability is 7990 which is bogus number.

My truck weighs with wife and I, full fuel, 6160lbs. Only aftermarket options is a toneau cover and running boards. This leaves 740lbs of payload available.
3600 lbs steer axle
2560 lbs drive axle

Trailer is a 2018 Jay Feather 27RL.
Yellow sticker as is weight, 5904 lbs. Only thing added by dealer was battery and battery box. I figured 50lb. Scales verified these numbers are +- 10 lb.

Went straight to scales about 1 mile from dealership after purchase here are the numbers.
Without WD bars engaged
Steer 3240
Drive 3700
Trailer 5260
Combined 12200

With WD engaged
Steer 3600
Drive 3200
Trailer 5400
Combined 12200

I'm using a Husky TS WD hitch.
As you can see I'm well within everything with 100 lbs to spare on GVWR of my truck.
If I had 400lb of toolbox and topper I'd be 300 over.

Weigh your truck by itself so you know what you have to work with.

[Helibassplyr]

Thanks guys, both good posts. I will definitely shed some weight for the truck before I head to the scales again. Just out of curiosity, CaptJerry - why do you say the 7990 max trailer weight is a bogus number? And do either of you guys know what the limiting factor on the trucks GVWR is?

[CaptJerry]

I can't imagine how a person could tow 7990 without exceeding the gvwr or rear axle.
You would need a completely stripped down bare basic truck with an anorexic driver.

[CampNow]

Originally Posted by Helibassplyr

. . . do either of you guys know what the limiting factor on the trucks GVWR is?

There could be one significant limiting factor, but rather doubt it. If there is one, IMO only a Ram engineer directly involved with your truck's R&D would be privy to that info.

[Demiles]

The one thing most people fail to follow now days is the vehicle manufacturers weight distribution hitch setup limit (FALR %). So you need to be able to stay within RAWR and follow FALR as well. RAM says right in the owners manual to recover only 50% of the front axle load lost to the application of tongue weight. Ideally you need to lose weight off the truck or reduce tongue weight.

[tjpolsin]

Originally Posted by Helibassplyr

Thanks guys, both good posts. I will definitely shed some weight for the truck before I head to the scales again. Just out of curiosity, CaptJerry - why do you say the 7990 max trailer weight is a bogus number? And do either of you guys know what the limiting factor on the trucks GVWR is?

Truck GVWR is regulatory based on truck class (not engineering design)
1/2 ton = ~7000#
3/4 ton = ~10,000#
1 ton SRW = ~12,000#
1 ton DRW = ~14,000#

the amount of weight your rear axle can carry is the lesser of the engineer's RAWR or the tire weight rating.

after you lighten your truck, consider moving some weight to the back of your trailer. BUT be careful to say w/in 10-15% tongue weight.

I wouldn't adjust your hitch too much more since you said that it tows fine.

weigh your TT/TV with WDH bars off, then on. Then weigh your truck by itself.

From those number you can get total trailer weight and tongue weight.

Moving 50# from your tool box to a rear storage compartment of your trailer will probably solve your problem.

[CaptJerry]

Originally Posted by Demiles

The one thing most people fail to follow now days is the vehicle manufacturers weight distribution hitch setup limit (FALR %). So you need to be able to stay within RAWR and follow FALR as well. RAM says right in the owners manual to recover only 50% of the front axle load lost to the application of tongue weight. Ideally you need to lose weight off the truck or reduce tongue weight.

No where (that i can find) is it mentioned in the owners manual or users guide for my 2017 Ram 1500 to only recover 50% of front axle load lost.
It goes quite in depth on trucks with the factory air suspension to adjust to a 33% loss before using air suspension, but nothing for the standard suspension.

[Demiles]

Page 543

[CaptJerry]

Thank you, it was right in front of me.

[jim44646]

One thing I would suggest. Measure your tongue weight. A trailer can weigh within limits and be out of balance. loaded to heavy in front adds tongue weight and add weight to the rear of your truck, trailer loaded to heavy in the rear takes weight of your trucks rear and rear tires.

[JonathanCP]

I had the same problem with a RAM 1500, I was near the limit on most things but not trailer GVWR, I had to reduce tounge weight by moving stuff into rear of trailer, my front storage compartment was practically empty, however this could cause an imbalanced trailer so to balance the weight I found if I filled the fresh water tank because it is to the rear of the axle it would reduce the tounge weight and I could move kit back in the front storage, this balanced everything back to front and allowed me to reduce tounge weight which of course reduces weight on truck rear axle.
This meant I was on the limit for everything though and it was a balancing act every time we took the trailer out, it pulled ok even up mountain roads but I wasn't comfortable with wear and tear on the truck. Final solution was a truck upgrade to a 2017 RAM 2500 . I find the limiting factor is the truck payload more than what it can pull and that was never mentioned to me at the dealers.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by JonathanCP

Snip...
I find the limiting factor is the truck payload more than what it can pull and that was never mentioned to me at the dealers.

Three very important points in that sentence every potential trailer buyer should read and think about:
1) the limiting factor is the truck payload
2) more (limiting) than what it can pull
3) that was never mentioned to me at the dealers (neither RV nor vehicle dealers talk about this)


(BTW: I graduated from CSU a couple years before the Bud plant was built. Camped a lot in RMNP, along the Poudre river, and in recent years, at Dutch George a few times. Beautiful country.)

[mass-hole]

Definitely get the truck weighed by itself. I dont know what the weight of the front axle of a hemi ram should be but I know my F150, which weighs 6140 lbs totally empty, had 3440 lbs on the front axle and 2700 on the rear. That iron block hemi probably is a few hundred lbs heavier than the ecoboost and is mostly sitting on the front.

Part of your issue though is the low GVWR of the Ram trucks. I went to go test drive a 4x4 Crew cab Big Horn Ecodiesel a few years back and it only had 1200 lbs of payload on the door sticker. The Colorado Duramax I drove 10 minutes later had 1450.

Originally Posted by tjpolsin

Truck GVWR is regulatory based on truck class (not engineering design)
1/2 ton = ~7000#
3/4 ton = ~10,000#
1 ton SRW = ~12,000#
1 ton DRW = ~14,000#

the amount of weight your rear axle can carry is the lesser of the engineer's RAWR or the tire weight rating.

after you lighten your truck, consider moving some weight to the back of your trailer. BUT be careful to say w/in 10-15% tongue weight.

I wouldn't adjust your hitch too much more since you said that it tows fine.

weigh your TT/TV with WDH bars off, then on. Then weigh your truck by itself.

From those number you can get total trailer weight and tongue weight.

Moving 50# from your tool box to a rear storage compartment of your trailer will probably solve your problem.

I dont know if the 1/2 ton GVWR you posted is entirely true. My 2014 F150 is 7700 lbs and the HD Payload package was 8200 lbs. GM trucks with the max trailering package are 7600 lbs.

The Ford's only dropped to ~7000 or less when the aluminum bodies came out and they loss all of the weight. GM is still at 7300 I believe with the new 2019.

Ram always just had a really low GVWR and it hurt their payload badly. A Hemi Crew Cab 4x4 maxes out at like 1500 lbs of payload while GM and Ford are in the 2000 lb range.

[fillwa]

My 2 cents. You have a 1500 truck: your max payload is 1500, you + passengers + gas + whatever else you put in cab or bed.
A 7,000lb trailer, figure %15 for tounge weight...1050lb...not much left of payload.
Now consider the stress on bearings, axle, brakes, suspension, transmission, etc.
I tow my trailer with a 2500HD, no problem.

[mass-hole]

Originally Posted by fillwa

My 2 cents. You have a 1500 truck: your max payload is 1500, you + passengers + gas + whatever else you put in cab or bed.
A 7,000lb trailer, figure %15 for tounge weight...1050lb...not much left of payload.
Now consider the stress on bearings, axle, brakes, suspension, transmission, etc.
I tow my trailer with a 2500HD, no problem.

There are 1500 crew cab 4x4's out there with 2500+ lbs of payload which is more than most 3/4 ton diesels. F150 with HD Payload Package.

Not saying its built as heavy as the 3/4 ton but they do come with a heavier duty frame, axle and springs.

[videoarizona]

What I don't see here is how the WDH set up is done?
My E2 WDH says:

1: Turn off all air suspension systems on tow vehicle
2: Fill water tank. It's usually over the axles (gives proper tongue weight to empty trailer)
3: Fill propane tanks (as #2 above)

Now adjust the WDH using the simple proven method of: leveling trailer to ground, measuring ball and hitch heights and measuring tow vehicle front end before hitched, after hitched, then after WDH is engaged. Adjust washers/chains/bars accordingly to equalize within a reasonable amount.

I would think this method, done correctly, would equalize your weight distribution between your two axles. Of course, being over limit is an issue regardless.

I know this only because I had to learn in order to re do my hitch after traveling across country from dealer...I put more tension on my bars by raising the brackets...giving me a more level ride on both truck and trailer...and an excellent ride with no sway! So I started from scratch...got great results.