Big tt 1/2 ton tv?

[troutslayer]

Some will swear that when they pull a rig like that "they don't even feel it back there". Some will say they have no problem pulling up a 7% grade for 7 miles (or coming down the other side of that mountain). I don't know what to say about that because I have pulled my old SOB 5th wheel at over the maximum hitch weight (something few car or RV salespeople ever talk about) and right at the GVWR and can tell you that it was no fun for me (or my wife). By the end of each traveling day, I was wiped out and dreading the next day of driving. But that's just me. Knowing what I know, If I were in your shoes, I would either get a larger truck or a smaller RV. IMHO
I now pull an Eagle HT 26.5RKS with a GMC 2500 4X4 HD Diesel. I know, it's overkill but I don't ever worry about being overweight or having the ability to stop (as long as I do all proper maintenance). Good luck

[David472]

Originally Posted by Aggiered

I have a Ford F150 Super Cab,4.6L V8, 4X4. I am shopping for a Jayco 5th Wheel EAGLE HT 26RKS. The salesperson says that my truck will have no problem GCWR 10,500 lbs, with a GVWR of 6250. He says that I will have not problem pulling this, don't know if I trust this advise.
What are your thoughts, experiences?

You don't say what your rear end gearing is. This will be an important factor. Our 22FB TT weighed in at the scales as 5,600 lbs with our camping gear. Our truck was the 4.8L V8 with 3.42 rear end. We towed 5,000 miles over two summers thru rolling hills terrain. I would say this is the maximum trailer weight I would tow with this size engine and rear end gearing. And, by the towing guide book numbers, we were at the max. Have a look at the Trailer Life Towing Guide Book for your specific truck configuration. It's available to read on-line. As for the Eagle HT 26RKS, IMHO it's beyond your truck.
http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

[E&J push'n wind]

I'm gonna be the odd man out on this one!

A similar discusion took place over at RVnet when someone was asking about towing with an Armada. This was my post on his quiry.

If I may be allowed to chime in here, the Armada is much more capable than it is getting credit for. Okay, I'm one of those that leaped before I looked. That said, when I first came on this forum folks had me afraid to tow my TT. I had pruchased the TT not knowing all of this "tow stuff." I had a small 19' X 7' TT before that I pulled with my Toyota 4Runner and we were happy.

FF some years later and I have an Armada that Nissan touted at 9K and boy was I happy. Ran out and bought the TT I have now and then found RVnet.., uhg! What was I gonna do? Go camp'n that's what! I've done the numbers and yeah I'm push'n the ragged edge and maybe a bit over on GVWR, well within GAWR ff & rr though.

So.., what I've found is the Armada is quite the capable TV. Slows & stops good with the brake controller I have (Prodigy P2) and does hills surprisingly well, in fact better than one might think.

Now I know the naysayers are gonna have their say. It's okay, I have my flame suit on. I know one can have to much TT for a given TV, that's a no-brainer. However the payload I think is a bit of a brain teas. I gotta ask, before the infamous door sticker was implemented that gives GVWR, GAWR and tire pressure & inflation and all that. What were people doing? Trailers were MUCH MUCH heavier and TV's were MUCH MUCH less capable in the area of drive line and braking not to mention power plants. In the 70's, it was not uncommon to see a Ford Crown Vic towing a 30' Silver Streak or Airstream TT and those things have to have weighed a bunch for a Crown Vic. Probably had drum brakes & a 3 speed auto tranny, and a very short wheel base.

So now FF to today, TT's are much much lighter and TV's are much much more capable in the afore mentioned areas, BUT.., less capable, HUH? I think a lot of care needs to be taken when one purchases a TT for a given TV but I think we tend to overthink some things. I'm sure that needs to be qualified! I'll come back to that later, suffice it to say for now, a little common sence (which isn't so common anymore these days) goes a long way. Sure we ALL make mistakes which is very common, so it is better to err on the side of caution if one knows to. But, going over the GVWR by a couple of ounces isn't gonna break the bank either. Again using discretion, it is completely doable.

Okay, here it comes, I know.., Just because one can doesn't mean they should! Doesn't mean they shouldn't either! Provided they know what they are doing, the problem is knowing where to draw the line. I guess that's why the door sticker, to make it idiot proof as much as is possible, because they're out there.., I know.

A lot of folks recomended the Excursion. Interestingly, if we are talking apples to apples. Payload is payload, correct? What's the payload on an Excursion? I've read that it's 1400 - 1600 lbs. depending on whether it's a V10 or PSD. The Armada has a payload of 1600+ lbs. Uh Oh, I'm in trouble now! I hear it coming, "there is no comparison between an Excursion and an Armada! The Excrusion is a 3/4 ton and the Nissan is a 1/2 ton bla bla bla" but, payload is payload. So.., based on that alone. The Excursion is really no more capable than the Armada. Now I know better than that but the numbers are the numbers and this is where the logic breaks down. Getting back to "overthinking" this payload thing. If one goes strickly by the numbers, and I realize you have to use them to an extent but I think this exemplifies my point! I know that the EX can do much more than the 1/2 ton Armada, but going by the numbers, it can't. So.., what is one to do?

I posted this because I think it speaks a lot to what the OP is asking. Someone stated "stopping and controlling" and all due respect, one has to know what they are getting into. One of the greatest problems is folks really don't know how to drive pulling a loaded TT plain and simple. I know this is gonna ruffle some feathers but even SOME "professional" semi truck drivers don't know what they are doing and they've been to school (most of them anyway).

The issue of ascending and descending hills. Again, you gotta know what you are doing. Most just put their TV in "D" and go, up and over the hills without giving any thought to what they are doing. The throttle is their best friend going up and the brake pedal is their best friend coming down. Now, some might ask. "What's wrong with that?" Well on an ant hill, nothing! However, going up and over BIG hills (mountains) can be a lot more involved than just throttling UP going up and braking coming down. Fact is, your transmission is your best friend going up and coming down. I know I may be preaching to the choir to some but others may not have a clue.

So coming back to the OP's question about the TT he is/was considering. Me, I would have no heartache about the TT in question at all. Sure it's heavy, the TV has a 9800 lbs. tow rating. If the hitch is rated at better than 10K and has sufficient tongue wt. rating he'd actually be okay. Hills would be a challenge but completely doable and safely mind you, provided he know's what he is getting into and more importantly knows how to drive pulling a TT effectively. As mentioned before, it is not just a matter of putting it in "D" and going. You can get away with that on flat and level but mountainous driving, it can be fatal.

I mentioned one has to know what they are doing. I also mentioned even some semi truck drivers don't know what they are doing. Allow me to explain please. A lot of us have travled across the lands and have seen semi's coming down hills (mountain grades) with trailer brakes smoking. Keep in mind that these are "professional drivers" as considered by DMV's across the country. These smoking brakes should NEVER HAPPEN! But you see it all the time. I say this because simply slowing down before one starts to descend any mountain and staying in the proper gear all the way down will save the brakes and make for a much more relaxing trip. Same for going up. Lower gears is the key, not more throttle.

I could speak at depth on this but I don't want to go to far a-field from the OP's original question. If you or anyone lack the confidence or know how, then I wouldn't do it. But, it is doable provided you are not exceeding the axle ratings. Okay, I'm ready. Flame suit on!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by E&J push'n wind

snip....... So coming back to the OP's question about the TT he is/was considering. Me, I would have no heartache about the TT in question at all. Sure it's heavy, the TV has a 9800 lbs. tow rating. If the hitch is rated at better than 10K and has sufficient tongue wt. rating he'd actually be okay......snip

If you referring to the OP's TV, he stated it had a published tow rating of 9,500lbs (w/3.42 gear).

Don't worry, you will find that JOF members respect other members contributions and opinions, plus we avoid flaming

Bob

[David472]

My comment here is not intended as a "flame" but rather an additional view point. When it comes to ascending and descending in the mountains, I agree with what you have to say. I would add however, under those conditions, transmission cooling becomes paramount. Overheat your tranny and you will regret it. Of course this comment applies even if the TV-trailer set-up is all within the GVWR and GCWR numbers. You can still over-do it. Engine cooling would be the second in line to keep a watchful eye on. In the glorious 1970's there were plenty who found out the hard way about the importance of proper cooling. From an engineering point of view, every thermal system has a maximum capacity or ability to shed excess heat. Much like a garden hose. A one inch diameter garden hose is going to move much more volume than a 1/2 inch diameter hose. For a given TV, the thermal mass of the engine block and transmission body plus the capacity of the cooling systems to shed the excess heat (think volume) is a very important factor. It's my view this is the ingredient which differentiates tow vehicles which on the surface would other wise appear to be similar.

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by Aggiered

I have a Ford F150 Super Cab,4.6L V8, 4X4. I am shopping for a Jayco 5th Wheel EAGLE HT 26RKS. The salesperson says that my truck will have no problem GCWR 10,500 lbs, with a GVWR of 6250. He says that I will have not problem pulling this, don't know if I trust this advise.
What are your thoughts, experiences?

Welcome to the forum! For best results please post a new thread with your question in the towing and tow vehicles forum. I think you will get a better response and more views then in an existing thread.

[E&J push'n wind]

David472,

I am not an engineer but somewhat of a gearhead. I couldn't agree with you more, kind'a why I wish one could purchase these trucks & SUV's with manual trannys. I think Dodge offers a manual in their lineup. Anyway, I know all to well about heat load on an engine. I'll try to make a long story short, we took a trip to KS back in 96ish in the middle of summer. The mistake I made was putting an electric fan on my 4Runner. With the little camping we did locally in So Cal, it pulled my 19' X 7' TT very well. It never missed a beat, never got hot. Well, put that thing out on the open highway and start climbing some hills and that poor little electric fan couldn't keep up. I ended up nursing the 4Runner to Las Wages where I tried putting a “bigger” electric fan on (didn’t work any better) and from Las Wages NV. to KS. traveling straight through the night stopping only for fuel & potty breaks. By daybreak, we were in CO. and the land got pretty flat by then. But.., coming through Vail and over the Ike tunnel was hair raising to say the least. The only thing that saved us was low range in the thing. But that was 25 mph in third gear in low range. Needless to say, when we got to KS, I put the OEM fan back on. All went well after that.

I've commented on these issues about tranny cooling on a different forum, not so much about engine cooling. To me that is somewhat of a no brainer but I think a lot of folks probably don't know about keeping the tranny within normal operating temps. One of the keys to doing this is to keep the torque converter (TC) locked up as much as is possible. As I mentioned in the thread prior to yours, "just putting it in "D" and going" can be detrimental on an ascent. I know I don't need to tell you this but for another that might read this, shifting your auto tranny like it is a manual tranny can save it. Many times an auto on a "down shift" doesn't actually drop a gear but rather unlocks the TC allowing it to slip. This can cause tremendous heat buildup, more than the tranny cooler can scrub off. Manual shifting when necessary also helps to keep it from “hunting” for the right gear to be in which also builds excessive heat in the tranny, every time the tranny shifts it causes the TC to unlock and slip very much like a manual clutch.

[mollyr]

I was in the same boat...I had a 1500. Sierra crew...went out and bought my 31 flight...towed it home...really not enough truck...felt unsafe....sold the truck this past weekend and just bought my 2500 duramax today....I literally couldn't sleep thinking I was putting my young family at harm..now I can safely go on vacation..shame on the dealer for selling you an overwieght trailer...its completely miss matched...this comes from recent expierience....by the way...my 31 bhs dry is 7000 lbs....please don't tow with that truck....

[Derek700]

I never felt unsafe in my half ton but knew it wasn't enough truck to go where we want to. I have no doubt in mind that with a 9500 lb tow rating the salesman would have sold me a 9500 lb trailer. I am glad we have a one ton now

[Recondite]

A little off the topic but a previous poster said he thought trailers were lighter now. I think I'd disagree. You can't hardly buy a TT without slides now. Think about it, yes lighter materials but bigger appliances, etc...all around and every slide adds two more walls and a roof (oh, and dont forget slide rails and the floor ) as opposed to just the one wall without a slide. My 29RLS is WAY heavier than my old '88 26ft Layton TT which I was very comfortable pulling with my '03 Silverado w/5.3L. Not so with the new TT. And that is why I upgraded to the F-250 6.0 diesel. Just my two cents, get a bigger truck, your increased comfort (just mentally alone) will be worth it.