Checked out the CAT scales

[JKyle]

First time weighing, so I thought I’d hit the scales with only my loaded truck. The scales about 17 miles from my house. I’m glad I did because i got a good feel for the area and how I’d navigate the area with a trailer.

I used the app since it was a single vehicle weight this time

So this is my truck. I forgot to put on my hitch head, so I’ll have to be sure to remember that when I come back to weigh the trailer and tongue weight.

Glad i took the time to check it out

[colby]

Doing a reconnaissance visit was a great idea. Make sure you read the instructions on the site here, they are very good and explain how to do the three weighs you will need to figure everything out.

Also the 4-Step Weight Safety Plan found here (this is Step 1 - Worksheets) - https://fifthwheelst.com/rv-weighing-worksheet.html, is also very good. Step 2 shows you how to weigh, Step 3 get's you to fill in the various weights on their page and reports your various weights for things like tongue weight, etc., and Step 4 talks about tire inflation (which can be a controversial subject). Step 3 is the one where you get all of the info after the weigh.

[gunafulltime]

Getting your rig dialed in at the scales is an excellent learning experience and worth the effort!

[JKyle]

I figured I get it done today, since I had time and the truck is still loaded with everything I usually take with me.

I really needed this done, because I feel my WD set-up is not quite right.

[SloPoke]

Download the Cat Scale app... open an account and you can get the scale ticket sent to you in a .pdf file in seconds... Eliminates going in to pick up the scale ticket.

[TaftCoach]

I kept telling my wife we were so far under weight there was no need to weigh. Finally, to quiet her down, we did the whole process while on a worst case possible trip.

I was right. (For once) Victory lap.

But I'll admit it was great to have confirmation.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Download the Cat Scale app... open an account and you can get the scale ticket sent to you in a .pdf file in seconds... Eliminates going in to pick up the scale ticket.

Yeah I did that. I picked up the ticket, anyway. I figure I paid $13.50...I'll take my piece of paper, too.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by TaftCoach

I kept telling my wife we were so far under weight there was no need to weigh. Finally, to quiet her down, we did the whole process while on a worst case possible trip.

I was right. (For once) Victory lap.

But I'll admit it was great to have confirmation.

For once, the husband is correct. That's you annual 'give.' Start planning on what you'd like to be right about, next year.

That confirmation will make feel better, too.

I know I'm under weight. I'm of course in need of the weights for proper WD, but the weight I carry....in the truck bed is about 4 different kind of folding chairs and 2 plastic folding tables, a stainless fire pit. 40lb of wood and an 8lb step ladder. It's just me in the cab and another combined 100lb: generator (not every trip) and 'stuff.'

The camper inside, has minimal living stuff. My pass through has some tools my leveling stuff, 2 bins with hoses and my 35lb weber traveler.

The 'chopper' trike (if anyone remembers my bike) is on a flatbed trailer hauled by my husband, with his car.

I'll be back to report the numbers by Monday afternoon.

[Jayhawk 29]

Even the manufacturers confirms the camper weight at the factory. So both gives you a starting point. Its always nice to have a starting point for safety and an even more enjoyable point that makes your driving and towing experience a safe one.

And for what what its worth, for those traveling with individuals carrying opposing points of views,,

" Wimmin have many faults, men but two, everything they say and everything they do"
So accept this and you will always be a happy camper.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by JKyle

I figured I get it done today, since I had time and the truck is still loaded with everything I usually take with me.

I really needed this done, because I feel my WD set-up is not quite right.

Okay. My next CAT scale story, my second visit with trailer attached, is as follows: Showed to the scale, no one in line, great, not busy.

Rolled on to the scales. Had all axles where they belong. Hit the button, explained I want to do 2 weights and asked if I could stay on the scale while I adjust (removed bars) for second weight. She said "Sure...I've already got your first weight." I was out of the truck...because my truck wasn't near the button. I told her I need to get back in the truck, because MY weight is substantial and necessary

She agreed. I get back in the truck, she gets the weight. I tell her I will make my adjustments then call when I'm ready. She agrees. I call, get back in the truck. She says..."They are the same." Now, I know I'm there to pretty much confirm my W/D bars aren't set right, but 'the same weigh't? I explain what I had done. She comes out from the office and walks up to the scales. She is confused. She thinks I am there to weight 'just' my truck and trailer, then the combination of the two. I told her I don't need to un-hook, I just need to remove these bars, pointed at the bars, explained what they do. She says she doesn't understand, and states "there was a guy here the other day doing the same thing." She goes back inside. She sends out her boss. I explain to him what I am doing. He has ZERO CLUE what it is I am doing and has no idea about WD set-ups. I tell him what the bars are, their purpose and how the weights change. He goes back inside and grabs a weight on the truck w/o the bars in place.

By this time it is a gazillion degrees outside and I am done trying to teach the scale master people about campers and weight distribution. I tell them I'll take 2 weights, 2 that appear different from one another. I get charged $13.50 EACH...I thought a reweigh scenario was less, but hey, they were nice enough and I wasn't in the mood to argue, I was hot and done with the situation.

I have 2 sets of weights from today and my 'truck only' weights from the other day, which included camping gear in the bed/cab but I forgot my hitch head for that weight, so you might add 40-50 lb on the drive axle for that

Overall, I have no idea if the two sets of numbers are accurate for what they're supposed to represent: with and w/o W/D.

STEER AXLE:
ALONE: 3180
W/D: 2809
NO W/D: 2900


DRIVE AXLE:
ALONE: 2540
W/D: 3620
NO W/D: 3580


TRAILER AXLE:
W/D: 5860
NO W/D: 5880


GROSS:
Truck alone: 5720
Truck with trailer: 12360


For sure, my hitch head was not adjusted to optimal settings for my truck/trailer. I could feel the front end was too high, like it was too 'floaty.' I got back home, removed my hitch head and got to work.

I watched several videos and read the instructions on how to adjust it as far as tilt. From what I could tell, the entire head was almost level, barely any droop, which is needed in order to drop the bars down, to create more tension when they're lifted. So, I took a shot and adjusted the head down several degrees and set it. I got it back on the truck and did some measurements. I took it for a drive up on the highway and the front was definitely more planted, but the numbers don't make sense to me.

I think I need to take tomorrow for more measuring.
I think I'll take the trailer to the most level part of the neighborhood to get new measurements. The road in front of my house is generally flat, but it is a slight decline. A straight, flat road but slanted, I guess you could say.

Fender heights W/D: FRONT 38 1/4" REAR: 37 3/4"

Then I measured w/o W/D: FRONT: 37 1/2" REAR: 38 1/2

Truck w/o a trailer (but stuff in bed): FRONT: 37 3/4" REAR: 40"

[gunafulltime]

That is frustrating, for sure. But you're on the right track.

We avoid the confusion with the scale personnel by driving off of the scale after the weigh with WDH engaged. We park out of the way and disengage the WDH. Then we go back on the scale for the weigh with the WDH disengaged. Usually, the second weigh costs less.

If you work with today's WDH disengaged number, you need to increase the distribution. You want to get the TV's front axle back to within 50lbs of its weight when the fully loaded truck was weighed without the trailer attached to it; that was 3180lbs. I am not familiar with your WDH, but you need to advance the distribution a little to get closer to 3180 on the front axle. This will also distribute more weight to your trailer axles; the trailer axles' weight with the WDH engaged is less than the weight with the WDH disengaged. You need to reverse that by increasing the distribution. When you increase the distribution with your hitch, both the front axle of the TV and the trailer axles will receive more weight.

If you do not trust the number(s), do the weigh again. If you think the number(s) are decent enough, increase the distribution and go back to confirm that you have the front axle weight where it needs to be. It is a bit laborious, but once you get it dialed in, you're done, and you will know you have your rig set up properly. You will also have a greater knowledge of your rig's workings and requirements.

Hang in there! We've been there. Kudos to you for caring and being strong! Keep us posted.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by gunafulltime

That is frustrating, for sure. But you're on the right track.

We avoid the confusion with the scale personnel by driving off of the scale after the weigh with WDH engaged. We park out of the way and disengage the WDH. Then we go back on the scale for the weigh with the WDH disengaged. Usually, the second weigh costs less.

If you work with today's WDH disengaged number, you need to increase the distribution. You want to get the TV's front axle back to within 50lbs of its weight when the fully loaded truck was weighed without the trailer attached to it; that was 3180lbs. I am not familiar with your WDH, but you need to advance the distribution a little to get closer to 3180 on the front axle. This will also distribute more weight to your trailer axles; the trailer axles' weight with the WDH engaged is less than the weight with the WDH disengaged. You need to reverse that by increasing the distribution. When you increase the distribution with your hitch, both the front axle of the TV and the trailer axles will receive more weight.

If you do not trust the number(s), do the weigh again. If you think the number(s) are decent enough, increase the distribution and go back to confirm that you have the front axle weight where it needs to be. It is a bit laborious, but once you get it dialed in, you're done, and you will know you have your rig set up properly. You will also have a greater knowledge of your rig's workings and requirements.

Hang in there! We've been there. Kudos to you for caring and being strong! Keep us posted.

Thanks for all the information and support Gunna.
Like you said, I do remember the Ford literature stating my truck's front axle, with WD, should be within 50lb of the original front axle weight.

I'll keep working on it.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by gunafulltime

That is frustrating, for sure. But you're on the right track.

We avoid the confusion with the scale personnel by driving off of the scale after the weigh with WDH engaged. We park out of the way and disengage the WDH. Then we go back on the scale for the weigh with the WDH disengaged. Usually, the second weigh costs less.

If you work with today's WDH disengaged number, you need to increase the distribution. You want to get the TV's front axle back to within 50lbs of its weight when the fully loaded truck was weighed without the trailer attached to it; that was 3180lbs. I am not familiar with your WDH, but you need to advance the distribution a little to get closer to 3180 on the front axle. This will also distribute more weight to your trailer axles; the trailer axles' weight with the WDH engaged is less than the weight with the WDH disengaged. You need to reverse that by increasing the distribution. When you increase the distribution with your hitch, both the front axle of the TV and the trailer axles will receive more weight.

If you do not trust the number(s), do the weigh again. If you think the number(s) are decent enough, increase the distribution and go back to confirm that you have the front axle weight where it needs to be. It is a bit laborious, but once you get it dialed in, you're done, and you will know you have your rig set up properly. You will also have a greater knowledge of your rig's workings and requirements.

Hang in there! We've been there. Kudos to you for caring and being strong! Keep us posted.

Another observation...MY tongue weight appears to be in the 1,000lb area.

The hitch I have was chosen by and set up by the dealer. I agreed to the brand/type, but they were responsible to pair the proper size with my trailer. It is the Camco Eaz-Lift ReCurve6 with '600' bars. The hitch is available with 600, 800 and 1,000 and 1,200 bars. Even if I fall into the hitch weight rating safely, shouldn't I have been issued a least, 800lb bars? My trailer's documented tongue weight is 695 pounds. I read yesterday in a Q&A, that Camco expects the bars to work in situation 'up to 200lb greater' than the bars stated numbers. That would put the '600' that bars I have, to be used at a maximum tongue weight of 800lb.

The hitch is offered with different capacity WD bars: 600, 800, 1000, 1200. I'm not sure I should be distributing the weight that I believe needs redistributing, with the bars I currently have.

If I need new bars, there's a person selling a 1200 set in my area for $60

[gunafulltime]

Your tongue is a bit heavy because you need to distribute more weight to the front of the TV and to the TT axles.

I think the 12K WDH is a little too much. You could probably get away with it, but also remember a greater capacity hitch also weighs more. We used a 10K Equalizer on our Jay Feather 23rbm. It worked really well. INMHO, I would go with an 8K or 10K, probably a 10K. Too much hitch can put a lot of stress on your coupler and A-frame. I would be especially mindful of that with the NORCO frame used on ultra lights like Jay Feathers. I think your Feather's GVWR is 6,750. When you nail the distribution, your tongue will probably be 800-900lbs (+/-).

Dealers are notorious for poor WDH knowledge and installations. They typically miss the mark with accurate adjustments. To an extent that is due to the fact that your rig is not loaded when they install the hitch, but far too often their WDH installations are way off the mark. When we buy a new unit, we tell the dealer which hitch we will use, and we know we will have to take the hitch apart and start over to get it right. We've learned the hard way several times.

You're gonna get this! You're going to know your rig's operation like a champ! You are caring for your truck, your trailer, and most importantly you and your passengers' safety. Keep us posted.

[gunafulltime]

Reviewing the Recurve6 specs, it looks like it's fine for your rig - if I'm looking at the correct hitch(?).

https://camcooutdoors.com/eaz-lift-r...h-1000-lb-kit/

1,000lb tongue capacity and 12,000lbs gross trailer rating should take care of your setup. The hitch weighs 110lbs (head, ball, and spring bars). If this is your WDH, you should not need to replace it. You just need to increase the distribution. If there's something else I'm missing, amybe you do need to get a higher capacity hitch. The bars on this Recurve6 are 1200. Do Recurve6 hitches come with different size bars?

[gunafulltime]

Okay. I think I found your hitch. Camco uses different bar sizes within the different Recurves (3&6). It's a little mix n match confusion. An Equalizer 12K has 1,200lb bars, a 10k has 1000lb bars, an 8K has 800lb bars, and so on. They are a little more straight forward with their product design and packaging.

Is this yours?
https://camcooutdoors.com/eaz-lift-r...ch-600-lb-kit/

If so, I agree with you. I would want the Recurve6 with a 1000lb kit.

https://camcooutdoors.com/eaz-lift-r...h-1000-lb-kit/

Do you just buy the higher rated bars? Are the different size bars interchangeable in the hitch head? Or do you have to buy a new head as well?

Sorry for the back and forth. It took me a while to understand the Camco design.

[JKyle]

Originally Posted by gunafulltime

Reviewing the Recurve6 specs, it looks like it's fine for your rig - if I'm looking at the correct hitch(?).

https://camcooutdoors.com/eaz-lift-r...h-1000-lb-kit/

1,000lb tongue capacity and 12,000lbs gross trailer rating should take care of your setup. The hitch weighs 110lbs (head, ball, and spring bars). If this is your WDH, you should not need to replace it. You just need to increase the distribution. If there's something else I'm missing, amybe you do need to get a higher capacity hitch. The bars on this Recurve6 are 1200. Do Recurve6 hitches come with different size bars?

Yes, they do come with different bars. Mine are '600.' There are 800, 100, and 1200 that can be used with the same hitch head.

I think I'm going to have to make a call to the manufacturer.

[colby]

Originally Posted by JKyle

Another observation...MY tongue weight appears to be in the 1,000lb area.

The hitch I have was chosen by and set up by the dealer. I agreed to the brand/type, but they were responsible to pair the proper size with my trailer. It is the Camco Eaz-Lift ReCurve6 with '600' bars. The hitch is available with 600, 800 and 1,000 and 1,200 bars. Even if I fall into the hitch weight rating safely, shouldn't I have been issued a least, 800lb bars? My trailer's documented tongue weight is 695 pounds. I read yesterday in a Q&A, that Camco expects the bars to work in situation 'up to 200lb greater' than the bars stated numbers. That would put the '600' that bars I have, to be used at a maximum tongue weight of 800lb.

The hitch is offered with different capacity WD bars: 600, 800, 1000, 1200. I'm not sure I should be distributing the weight that I believe needs redistributing, with the bars I currently have.

If I need new bars, there's a person selling a 1200 set in my area for $60

It's hard to say what is right for the hitch weight, but in my experience, the tongue weight is usually on the high side of the 10-15%, especially if you have a front passthrough and underbed storage up front. My trailer is a bit heaver (usually about 17%) since I have 2x6v batteries sitting on the tongue. I don't know how full the trailer is, but a 22RB with a GVWR of 7000 pounds would come in at 15% right around 1050#, so being at 1000# for your set up may not be too far off.

As for the bars on the WDH, you want to be close to where you need o be, and not too much over. With the 1200# bars, that would be good for the 1200-1400 range (based on Camco's Q&A), and given your tongue weight is a couple of hundred pounds under that, I would be concerned about too much torque being applied to the trailer tongue. I would be tempted to go with the 1000# bars as that aligns with what you are seeing for tongue weight (the 800 would probably also be OK; however, it may be on the light side if you start loading more into the trailer and the tongue weight goes over 1000#).

This is just my thoughts on this, I would check with the manufacturer to see what their recommended route is.

How were your other numbers? Did you run the CAT scale weights through the formulas to see where things landed for axle weights and stuff?

[colby]

Originally Posted by gunafulltime

Your tongue is a bit heavy because you need to distribute more weight to the front of the TV and to the TT axles.

The tongue weight is calculated without the WDH engaged. Nothing should be transferred to the TV front axle or the trailer axles.

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by JKyle

STEER AXLE:
ALONE: 3180
W/D: 2809
NO W/D: 2900


DRIVE AXLE:
ALONE: 2540
W/D: 3620
NO W/D: 3580


TRAILER AXLE:
W/D: 5860
NO W/D: 5880

Is it just me, or do you have your weigh slips reversed? When you disengaged your WD, your Steer went up, Drive went down, and your trailer went up? Yes, that is a VERY poorly adjusted WDH indeed!

With WDH engaged you should be transferring weight FROM the Drive TO the Steer and Trailer. I generally like to get the Steer close to the TV Only weight to keep steering feel similar. In your example (assuming reversed slips) you are taking almost 300# off your front tires which can make steering pretty squirrely.