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Old 01-10-2018, 02:22 PM   #1
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Diesel or Gas

I've been towing my 2015 27DSRL with my 2004 Dodge Durango 5.7l gas with ease. The Durango has more than enough power with towing capability of 7,300 since I never load up the Whitehawk. Now I'm looking at trading in the Durango on a Ram 1500. My question is, should I get the 3.0l turbodiesel or stick to the 5.7l gas engine. THey both have a towing capability of about 7,700lbs. I have a chance to buy a new 2017 diesel for about $40,000 or a 2018 5.7 for about $10,000 more. We wouldn't be using the truck for much more than towing the trailer and the few times my wife and I need a vehicle at the same time. I've never owned a diesel before and I was hoping to get some advice from others that have. Thank you.

Jeff
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:07 PM   #2
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The diesel is cheaper than the gas? just a model year older? same options? usually the diesel option is $4k premium...

I would recommend gas... but not if it is a 10K premium over a diesel... do they have leftover 2017 5.7L? that would be the other comparison to make.

go look at the RAM forums see what problems/issues the diesel is having or not...
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:05 PM   #3
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The gas does have a few options more than the diesel but I'm looking at better mileage in the diesel by 4-6 mpg. I just don't know what drawbacks there might be to the diesel other than cost of fuel is about $.60 a gallon more and the oil is more expensive and it takes 10.5l each change. That will be about $100 each year where the gas is only about $20 when I do it myself. Are there other "hidden" expenses and benefits with the diesel I'm not seeing?
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:47 PM   #4
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I don’t know if those small diesels have the same benefits as the larger diesels. If you’d get better mileage and more power I’d go with the diesel.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:28 PM   #5
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Chances are the diesel doesn't have the payload you need to tow that trailer. You need a payload of about 1600lbs to legally tow that trailer and carry people. Most EcoDiesel have around 1000lbs payload.

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Old 01-10-2018, 06:22 PM   #6
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The gas does have a few options more than the diesel but I'm looking at better mileage in the diesel by 4-6 mpg. I just don't know what drawbacks there might be to the diesel other than cost of fuel is about $.60 a gallon more and the oil is more expensive and it takes 10.5l each change. That will be about $100 each year where the gas is only about $20 when I do it myself. Are there other "hidden" expenses and benefits with the diesel I'm not seeing?
Fuel filters are extra also water separator, check the warrenty on the fuel system

The biggest expense on any vehicle is the depreciation the mileage will be almost the same towing
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:28 PM   #7
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All of my vehicles are diesel except for my wife's 2010 Ram 1500. It has been a great truck all around, but is getting tired with 120K on it. We are most likely going to replace it with a diesel. All around, the truck has been great with very few problems. So, I have no problem recommending the Ram itself. And if it were my choice, I'd buy the diesel without hesitation.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:53 PM   #8
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Which Diesel engine? 6.7L Cummins or 3.0L VM Motori? 6.7, buy it ASAP.
3.0, hmmm. I think I’d pass & stick w/ the 5.7 gasser.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:31 AM   #9
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I've had two diesels now. They are REALLY nice to tow with, but, as stated, they are a bit more expensive.

Fuel mileage is better, fuel more expensive. Maintenance is a bit more as stated above. Normally I would say they last longer, but, our Dodge had the turbo go out at 105k miles. Not sure if the new ones have changed that design or not (VGT type turbo).

Not sure of your towing habits but when towing our longer trailer we have to be selective about fuel stations. Many we just cannot fit so use the truck pumps a lot. If I had a gasser that would not be an option and would severely hamper things.

Fuel capacity. The nice thing about my diesel is the mileage combined with the fuel tank size (35gal) means I can get over 300mi on a tank when towing. May not seem like a big thing. When we had our Toyota Tundra with a smaller trailer the short range was an issue many times out here where gas stations can be hard to find.

Hopefully the smaller diesels will warm up faster. Takes me about 5-10 miles just to get near operating temperature. Idling doesn't help. If you are in cold climates get a block heater and use it.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:07 AM   #10
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Here is my input.
  • Diesel is cheaper than the gas 5.7, a plus
  • Diesel should get better mileage towing, a plus
  • Diesel is better for towing, a plus
  • Diesel resale is better and heavily sought after, a plus
  • Leaves you room to upgrade down the line, a plus
  • Gas mileage will be slightly better while not towing
  • Gas trucks are cheaper in maintenace costs
  • Gas trucks sometimes have larger payloads due to engine weighing less
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #11
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For $10 k less, I would get the diesel no questions. It will be worth more down the road and the rest of the drivetrain is the same as the Hemi. Also the hemi may need synthetic oil now too and at 7-8 quarts, it may not be much cheaper than the diesel. The hemi will have to rev to pull hills where the diesel should pull in a higher gear at much lower rpm's. It will probably be a much quieter tow. I know my 2500 diesel is a LOT quieter towing than my Tundra was. The Tundra was into the rpm's pretty good to maintain speed with an 8500# camper behind it!
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:24 PM   #12
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There is a lot to consider. Actual fuel cost per mile is one. While a diesel will generally get better mpg, the fuel cost and the initial vehicle cost is higher, which makes any mpg advantage rarely work out more than just a wash.

Gas is going for $2.39 in my area right now. Diesel is going for almost $3 a gallon. Let's use some basic conservative numbers that most folks can deal with. Let's say I get about 16 mpg with the gasser 1500. Let's say I get about 22 mpg with the diesel version. Some may get better than that, but that seems to be a rough typical average.

At 16 mpg, with gas being $2.39, that equates to about 15 cents a mile fuel cost. At 22 mpg and diesel cost at $3, that equates to about 13.6 cents a mile fuel cost. One saved about 1.4 cents a mile. In 20,000 miles, that is about $280 a year. Compare that to the initial cost of the diesel, the higher (generally) cost of maintenance on the diesel, etc.

And it may have changed, but the 5.7 has been also a flex fuel engine. Depending on price, that can also play out to an advantage. E85 is going for about $1.85 in my area right now. Sure the fuel economy will be lower, let's say one looses about 3 mpg on it so they are getting 13 mpg instead of 16 mpg. At 13 mpg and $1.85 a gallon, that equates to roughly 14.2 cents a mile. That falls right in the middle between gas and diesel at current pricing in my area.

On the E85 thing, many folks forget that not all that long ago, we were faced with $4 gas and $5 diesel fuel. I could get E85 for between $2 and $2.50 a gallon cheaper than diesel. In that scenario I could beat both gasoline and diesel on a cost per mile basis any day of the week by a comfortable margin. And my pickup at the time lived on E85 for almost 2 years because of that scenario.

About the only real edge the diesel would have would be if towing at higher elevations on a regular basis. No doubt, a turbocharged diesel is going to labor a lot less at 8,000 feet than a 5.7 gasser.
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:24 PM   #13
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There is a lot to consider. Actual fuel cost per mile is one. While a diesel will generally get better mpg, the fuel cost and the initial vehicle cost is higher, which makes any mpg advantage rarely work out more than just a wash.

Gas is going for $2.39 in my area right now. Diesel is going for almost $3 a gallon. Let's use some basic conservative numbers that most folks can deal with. Let's say I get about 16 mpg with the gasser 1500. Let's say I get about 22 mpg with the diesel version. Some may get better than that, but that seems to be a rough typical average.

At 16 mpg, with gas being $2.39, that equates to about 15 cents a mile fuel cost. At 22 mpg and diesel cost at $3, that equates to about 13.6 cents a mile fuel cost. One saved about 1.4 cents a mile. In 20,000 miles, that is about $280 a year. Compare that to the initial cost of the diesel, the higher (generally) cost of maintenance on the diesel, etc.

And it may have changed, but the 5.7 has been also a flex fuel engine. Depending on price, that can also play out to an advantage. E85 is going for about $1.85 in my area right now. Sure the fuel economy will be lower, let's say one looses about 3 mpg on it so they are getting 13 mpg instead of 16 mpg. At 13 mpg and $1.85 a gallon, that equates to roughly 14.2 cents a mile. That falls right in the middle between gas and diesel at current pricing in my area.

On the E85 thing, many folks forget that not all that long ago, we were faced with $4 gas and $5 diesel fuel. I could get E85 for between $2 and $2.50 a gallon cheaper than diesel. In that scenario I could beat both gasoline and diesel on a cost per mile basis any day of the week by a comfortable margin. And my pickup at the time lived on E85 for almost 2 years because of that scenario.

About the only real edge the diesel would have would be if towing at higher elevations on a regular basis. No doubt, a turbocharged diesel is going to labor a lot less at 8,000 feet than a 5.7 gasser.
The diesel will have much higher resale value, so the upfront cost is offset when you sell it. Likely $5k or $6k, maybe more.

But the diesel is still a hard sell for me.

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Old 01-20-2018, 07:00 PM   #14
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Well, I bought the diesel. So far I love it. I hope I still love it when I have to pay for my first fill up. Thanks to all that posted. I appreciate your input.

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Old 01-20-2018, 08:50 PM   #15
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The diesel will have much higher resale value, so the upfront cost is offset when you sell it. Likely $5k or $6k, maybe more.

But the diesel is still a hard sell for me.

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Well, yes, the resale is higher, but the initial cost is higher. Really it makes it still a wash at best. And that is based on past vehicles resale values, mostly pre-emission varieties. These newer emissions laden engines are reaching the point where they are going to be real money pits when folks tend to trade them. Paying to replace a SCR or DPF unit on one can really modify one's view of diesel engines. That assumed resale doesn't look so rosy after thinning the bank account fixing one of these. And as the general consumer learns more of this, they will tend to balk more at purchasing someone else's problem child diesel.

As opposed to holding resale value, in the commercial truck market, this emissions money pit game has caused resale values to go into the basement. But then, those buyers tend to be more savvy of this stuff than the general pickup buyer.

If one truly needs the power, then it can be justified. But in all honesty, a lot of folks buy diesel because, for whatever reason, it is somewhat of a status symbol or they think it increases their testosterone level. Those of us who have decades of experience with diesels in various applications are fully aware of the negatives to diesel as much as the positives. Diesel is great in some applications, and not so great in others.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:58 PM   #16
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Just live in a non-nanny state, delete your Tier-IV emissions truck and profit.


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Old 01-20-2018, 09:05 PM   #17
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That is indeed and option. Spend 4 to 5 grand more for the diesel, spend a few thousand to delete the emissions, along with voiding any warranty. Sounds like a great investment, not.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:40 PM   #18
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Well, I bought the diesel. So far I love it. I hope I still love it when I have to pay for my first fill up. Thanks to all that posted. I appreciate your input.

Jeff
Just curious but what is the payload on that diesel truck, assuming you got the half ton 3 liter truck.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:10 PM   #19
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The payload is 1300lbs but it's just my wife and I in the truck and we won't be loading the bed with much more that a couple hundred pounds. The towing capability is 7,800lbs.
I also purchased a 10 year, 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,600.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:14 PM   #20
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Jeff,
Since the diesel or gas question comes up a lot, maybe keep us posted on your thoughts of lets say the first 6 or 7 months of use.
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