|
|
01-10-2018, 02:22 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Media
Posts: 140
|
Diesel or Gas
I've been towing my 2015 27DSRL with my 2004 Dodge Durango 5.7l gas with ease. The Durango has more than enough power with towing capability of 7,300 since I never load up the Whitehawk. Now I'm looking at trading in the Durango on a Ram 1500. My question is, should I get the 3.0l turbodiesel or stick to the 5.7l gas engine. THey both have a towing capability of about 7,700lbs. I have a chance to buy a new 2017 diesel for about $40,000 or a 2018 5.7 for about $10,000 more. We wouldn't be using the truck for much more than towing the trailer and the few times my wife and I need a vehicle at the same time. I've never owned a diesel before and I was hoping to get some advice from others that have. Thank you.
Jeff
__________________
Jeff & Theresa, Media, PA
2015 White Hawk 27DSRL
2017 Ram Big Horn 1500 Crew Cab Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 03:07 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,211
|
The diesel is cheaper than the gas? just a model year older? same options? usually the diesel option is $4k premium...
I would recommend gas... but not if it is a 10K premium over a diesel... do they have leftover 2017 5.7L? that would be the other comparison to make.
go look at the RAM forums see what problems/issues the diesel is having or not...
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 04:05 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Media
Posts: 140
|
The gas does have a few options more than the diesel but I'm looking at better mileage in the diesel by 4-6 mpg. I just don't know what drawbacks there might be to the diesel other than cost of fuel is about $.60 a gallon more and the oil is more expensive and it takes 10.5l each change. That will be about $100 each year where the gas is only about $20 when I do it myself. Are there other "hidden" expenses and benefits with the diesel I'm not seeing?
__________________
Jeff & Theresa, Media, PA
2015 White Hawk 27DSRL
2017 Ram Big Horn 1500 Crew Cab Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 04:47 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: West Central Wisconsin
Posts: 274
|
I don’t know if those small diesels have the same benefits as the larger diesels. If you’d get better mileage and more power I’d go with the diesel.
__________________
2018 Jayco Eagle HT 29.5BHOK
2016 Ford F-350 Super Duty SB CC PSD 4x4
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 05:28 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 831
|
Chances are the diesel doesn't have the payload you need to tow that trailer. You need a payload of about 1600lbs to legally tow that trailer and carry people. Most EcoDiesel have around 1000lbs payload.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
__________________
2015 Jayco WhiteHawk 28BHKS Summit Edition
2021 Ford F-150, 4x4, 3.5L Ecoboost, Max Tow
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 06:22 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,211
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawley
The gas does have a few options more than the diesel but I'm looking at better mileage in the diesel by 4-6 mpg. I just don't know what drawbacks there might be to the diesel other than cost of fuel is about $.60 a gallon more and the oil is more expensive and it takes 10.5l each change. That will be about $100 each year where the gas is only about $20 when I do it myself. Are there other "hidden" expenses and benefits with the diesel I'm not seeing?
|
Fuel filters are extra also water separator, check the warrenty on the fuel system
The biggest expense on any vehicle is the depreciation the mileage will be almost the same towing
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 06:28 PM
|
#7
|
Site Team
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connellsville
Posts: 22,664
|
All of my vehicles are diesel except for my wife's 2010 Ram 1500. It has been a great truck all around, but is getting tired with 120K on it. We are most likely going to replace it with a diesel. All around, the truck has been great with very few problems. So, I have no problem recommending the Ram itself. And if it were my choice, I'd buy the diesel without hesitation.
__________________
Moderator
2017 Jay Feather 7 22BHM Baja/Andersen WD
2018 F150 4x4 3.5L Ecoboost Max Tow
2015 MB Sprinter 2500 Passenger 2.1L Diesel
2007 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 5.9L G56
|
|
|
01-10-2018, 09:53 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 102
|
Which Diesel engine? 6.7L Cummins or 3.0L VM Motori? 6.7, buy it ASAP.
3.0, hmmm. I think I’d pass & stick w/ the 5.7 gasser.
__________________
2015 Seneca 36 FK. Purchased, used, October 7, 2017. Build 5 Console & Diamond Plate steps. Extend-A-Fill extensions. Scan Gauge.
2011 Jeep JK in trailer.
|
|
|
01-11-2018, 07:31 AM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 1,148
|
I've had two diesels now. They are REALLY nice to tow with, but, as stated, they are a bit more expensive.
Fuel mileage is better, fuel more expensive. Maintenance is a bit more as stated above. Normally I would say they last longer, but, our Dodge had the turbo go out at 105k miles. Not sure if the new ones have changed that design or not (VGT type turbo).
Not sure of your towing habits but when towing our longer trailer we have to be selective about fuel stations. Many we just cannot fit so use the truck pumps a lot. If I had a gasser that would not be an option and would severely hamper things.
Fuel capacity. The nice thing about my diesel is the mileage combined with the fuel tank size (35gal) means I can get over 300mi on a tank when towing. May not seem like a big thing. When we had our Toyota Tundra with a smaller trailer the short range was an issue many times out here where gas stations can be hard to find.
Hopefully the smaller diesels will warm up faster. Takes me about 5-10 miles just to get near operating temperature. Idling doesn't help. If you are in cold climates get a block heater and use it.
__________________
2017 Eagle HT 29.5BHOK (sold)
2017 Ford Powerstroke 6.7, Crew, 4x4 (sold)
2018 Toyota Highlander
Maggie, Old English Sheepdog
|
|
|
01-11-2018, 10:07 AM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 2,210
|
Here is my input. - Diesel is cheaper than the gas 5.7, a plus
- Diesel should get better mileage towing, a plus
- Diesel is better for towing, a plus
- Diesel resale is better and heavily sought after, a plus
- Leaves you room to upgrade down the line, a plus
- Gas mileage will be slightly better while not towing
- Gas trucks are cheaper in maintenace costs
- Gas trucks sometimes have larger payloads due to engine weighing less
__________________
2014 375 BHFS Eagle Premier
2014 Ram 3500 Longhorn DRW CC
6.7 CTD, Aisin, 4.10's
Yamaha EF3000iSEB
|
|
|
01-11-2018, 06:12 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulton, NY
Posts: 958
|
For $10 k less, I would get the diesel no questions. It will be worth more down the road and the rest of the drivetrain is the same as the Hemi. Also the hemi may need synthetic oil now too and at 7-8 quarts, it may not be much cheaper than the diesel. The hemi will have to rev to pull hills where the diesel should pull in a higher gear at much lower rpm's. It will probably be a much quieter tow. I know my 2500 diesel is a LOT quieter towing than my Tundra was. The Tundra was into the rpm's pretty good to maintain speed with an 8500# camper behind it!
__________________
2017 28BHBE Kitchen skylight, remote control and Aluminum wheels hitched by ProPride 3P
2017 Ram 2500 CC LB 4x4 Big Horn Cummins
|
|
|
01-14-2018, 04:24 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
|
There is a lot to consider. Actual fuel cost per mile is one. While a diesel will generally get better mpg, the fuel cost and the initial vehicle cost is higher, which makes any mpg advantage rarely work out more than just a wash.
Gas is going for $2.39 in my area right now. Diesel is going for almost $3 a gallon. Let's use some basic conservative numbers that most folks can deal with. Let's say I get about 16 mpg with the gasser 1500. Let's say I get about 22 mpg with the diesel version. Some may get better than that, but that seems to be a rough typical average.
At 16 mpg, with gas being $2.39, that equates to about 15 cents a mile fuel cost. At 22 mpg and diesel cost at $3, that equates to about 13.6 cents a mile fuel cost. One saved about 1.4 cents a mile. In 20,000 miles, that is about $280 a year. Compare that to the initial cost of the diesel, the higher (generally) cost of maintenance on the diesel, etc.
And it may have changed, but the 5.7 has been also a flex fuel engine. Depending on price, that can also play out to an advantage. E85 is going for about $1.85 in my area right now. Sure the fuel economy will be lower, let's say one looses about 3 mpg on it so they are getting 13 mpg instead of 16 mpg. At 13 mpg and $1.85 a gallon, that equates to roughly 14.2 cents a mile. That falls right in the middle between gas and diesel at current pricing in my area.
On the E85 thing, many folks forget that not all that long ago, we were faced with $4 gas and $5 diesel fuel. I could get E85 for between $2 and $2.50 a gallon cheaper than diesel. In that scenario I could beat both gasoline and diesel on a cost per mile basis any day of the week by a comfortable margin. And my pickup at the time lived on E85 for almost 2 years because of that scenario.
About the only real edge the diesel would have would be if towing at higher elevations on a regular basis. No doubt, a turbocharged diesel is going to labor a lot less at 8,000 feet than a 5.7 gasser.
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 05:24 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 831
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cow
There is a lot to consider. Actual fuel cost per mile is one. While a diesel will generally get better mpg, the fuel cost and the initial vehicle cost is higher, which makes any mpg advantage rarely work out more than just a wash.
Gas is going for $2.39 in my area right now. Diesel is going for almost $3 a gallon. Let's use some basic conservative numbers that most folks can deal with. Let's say I get about 16 mpg with the gasser 1500. Let's say I get about 22 mpg with the diesel version. Some may get better than that, but that seems to be a rough typical average.
At 16 mpg, with gas being $2.39, that equates to about 15 cents a mile fuel cost. At 22 mpg and diesel cost at $3, that equates to about 13.6 cents a mile fuel cost. One saved about 1.4 cents a mile. In 20,000 miles, that is about $280 a year. Compare that to the initial cost of the diesel, the higher (generally) cost of maintenance on the diesel, etc.
And it may have changed, but the 5.7 has been also a flex fuel engine. Depending on price, that can also play out to an advantage. E85 is going for about $1.85 in my area right now. Sure the fuel economy will be lower, let's say one looses about 3 mpg on it so they are getting 13 mpg instead of 16 mpg. At 13 mpg and $1.85 a gallon, that equates to roughly 14.2 cents a mile. That falls right in the middle between gas and diesel at current pricing in my area.
On the E85 thing, many folks forget that not all that long ago, we were faced with $4 gas and $5 diesel fuel. I could get E85 for between $2 and $2.50 a gallon cheaper than diesel. In that scenario I could beat both gasoline and diesel on a cost per mile basis any day of the week by a comfortable margin. And my pickup at the time lived on E85 for almost 2 years because of that scenario.
About the only real edge the diesel would have would be if towing at higher elevations on a regular basis. No doubt, a turbocharged diesel is going to labor a lot less at 8,000 feet than a 5.7 gasser.
|
The diesel will have much higher resale value, so the upfront cost is offset when you sell it. Likely $5k or $6k, maybe more.
But the diesel is still a hard sell for me.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
__________________
2015 Jayco WhiteHawk 28BHKS Summit Edition
2021 Ford F-150, 4x4, 3.5L Ecoboost, Max Tow
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 07:00 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Media
Posts: 140
|
Well, I bought the diesel. So far I love it. I hope I still love it when I have to pay for my first fill up. Thanks to all that posted. I appreciate your input.
Jeff
__________________
Jeff & Theresa, Media, PA
2015 White Hawk 27DSRL
2017 Ram Big Horn 1500 Crew Cab Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 08:50 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum
The diesel will have much higher resale value, so the upfront cost is offset when you sell it. Likely $5k or $6k, maybe more.
But the diesel is still a hard sell for me.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
|
Well, yes, the resale is higher, but the initial cost is higher. Really it makes it still a wash at best. And that is based on past vehicles resale values, mostly pre-emission varieties. These newer emissions laden engines are reaching the point where they are going to be real money pits when folks tend to trade them. Paying to replace a SCR or DPF unit on one can really modify one's view of diesel engines. That assumed resale doesn't look so rosy after thinning the bank account fixing one of these. And as the general consumer learns more of this, they will tend to balk more at purchasing someone else's problem child diesel.
As opposed to holding resale value, in the commercial truck market, this emissions money pit game has caused resale values to go into the basement. But then, those buyers tend to be more savvy of this stuff than the general pickup buyer.
If one truly needs the power, then it can be justified. But in all honesty, a lot of folks buy diesel because, for whatever reason, it is somewhat of a status symbol or they think it increases their testosterone level. Those of us who have decades of experience with diesels in various applications are fully aware of the negatives to diesel as much as the positives. Diesel is great in some applications, and not so great in others.
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 08:58 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Millington
Posts: 368
|
Just live in a non-nanny state, delete your Tier-IV emissions truck and profit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Rob, Sarah, Ella, Ava
2017 Eagle HT 29.5BHDS -- 2011 F350 CCSB 4x4 PSD
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 09:05 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
|
That is indeed and option. Spend 4 to 5 grand more for the diesel, spend a few thousand to delete the emissions, along with voiding any warranty. Sounds like a great investment, not.
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 09:40 PM
|
#18
|
Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia`s Eastern Shore
Posts: 17,088
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawley
Well, I bought the diesel. So far I love it. I hope I still love it when I have to pay for my first fill up. Thanks to all that posted. I appreciate your input.
Jeff
|
Just curious but what is the payload on that diesel truck, assuming you got the half ton 3 liter truck.
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 10:10 PM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Media
Posts: 140
|
The payload is 1300lbs but it's just my wife and I in the truck and we won't be loading the bed with much more that a couple hundred pounds. The towing capability is 7,800lbs.
I also purchased a 10 year, 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,600.
__________________
Jeff & Theresa, Media, PA
2015 White Hawk 27DSRL
2017 Ram Big Horn 1500 Crew Cab Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-20-2018, 10:14 PM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Parma, Ohio
Posts: 395
|
Jeff,
Since the diesel or gas question comes up a lot, maybe keep us posted on your thoughts of lets say the first 6 or 7 months of use.
__________________
2016 Jay Flight 34RSBS
2014 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi, 4.10 axle
2009 Jay Flight 29BHS G2 -Traded in-
2015 Toyota Tundra 5.7 Crew Cab, Traded in
Bluegill1
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|