Diesel vs. Gas Cost Analysis

[Archie]

My 2c I believe when you get in that 10 K- possible 11K and above you have no choice but a diesel ! But don't waste your money on a 3/4 diesel (low payload) if your looking at a fifth wheel.. It will take you approximately 150,000 miles to break even on the diesel.

[norty1]

[QUOTE=Archie;560710. It will take you approximately 150,000 miles to break even on the diesel.[/QUOTE]

I am about to break even on my latest one.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

snip.... One FW that we like has an 11,200 "gross dry weight" and a 16,000 GVWR and a 2,700 "dry hitch weight." How do you think a gas 2500 would handle that? It seems like diesel and 3500 territory to me.....snip

I would agree 100% on the 1 ton diesel.

Bob

[Big1]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

Thank you so much! I appreciate your candor. I have often heard that the older diesels would churn longer with fewer problems, but I have no actual experience myself.

I am wondering where the jump off point is, from a gasser to a diesel. At what tow weight does a gasser become so much more less desirable than a diesel? Surely, a "beefy" gasser has some range of excellent performance capability. (?)

So what kind of weigh will you be towing, I have a 2016 Ram 2500 6.4L with the 4.10 gears and tow my 12,000 lbs with no problem. On flat I get about 9-10 mpg and non-towing I get 12-13 and highway I get 16-17 mpg. The payload on my 2016 2500 is 3000 lbs.

Would I love a diesel yes but one I can't afford the extra 8 to 12 thousand dollars and two I don't need it for what I do but you might be better off with the diesel since your plan on keeping it for a long time and the amount of towing you will be doing.

[vcbice]

Ok, so a bit more to 'help'.

How much towing will you do? Will you use the truck as a daily driver in town, on errands, etc? As mentioned above newer diesels do NOT like town driving. They like to be at full temperature and turbos nice and hot. My 2009 just got a new turbo at 115k miles. Yes, 15k miles out of warranty. New turbo is $4000-$5000. [note: gas turbos are different and do not have this kind of problem].

Overall maintenance on a gasser is much cheaper. Mine had an engine filter that cost around $150. Oil changes, the diesels take a LOT. Everything on a diesel engine is more expensive.

If you are doing this only as a cost exercise, gas wins 90% of the time. Especially if you are going to use it around town for much of it's life.

Diesel fuel availability. This is not a minor issue. There are so many gas stations out there that do not have diesel, especially in small towns. The only thing that makes this less an issue is I get over 350mi range with my 37gal fuel tank..

We almost decided on a new gasser for our rig (11,000lb fifth wheel). Decided instead to keep the old diesel until it dies (especially since we like this no frills truck).

Towing, I agree, nothing beats the 800-1000 ft-lb of torque for towing up hills. When not towing the gasser is so much nicer.

[B5 GTX]

Side bar.....just curious how did the Dodge patrol car with the warmed over 440 in your signature tow?

[etex211]

Originally Posted by vcbice

Ok, so a bit more to 'help'.

How much towing will you do? Will you use the truck as a daily driver in town, on errands, etc? As mentioned above newer diesels do NOT like town driving. They like to be at full temperature and turbos nice and hot. My 2009 just got a new turbo at 115k miles. Yes, 15k miles out of warranty. New turbo is $4000-$5000. [note: gas turbos are different and do not have this kind of problem].

Overall maintenance on a gasser is much cheaper. Mine had an engine filter that cost around $150. Oil changes, the diesels take a LOT. Everything on a diesel engine is more expensive.

If you are doing this only as a cost exercise, gas wins 90% of the time. Especially if you are going to use it around town for much of it's life.

Diesel fuel availability. This is not a minor issue. There are so many gas stations out there that do not have diesel, especially in small towns. The only thing that makes this less an issue is I get over 350mi range with my 37gal fuel tank..

We almost decided on a new gasser for our rig (11,000lb fifth wheel). Decided instead to keep the old diesel until it dies (especially since we like this no frills truck).

Towing, I agree, nothing beats the 800-1000 ft-lb of torque for towing up hills. When not towing the gasser is so much nicer.

I agree with most of this. Unless you are working your truck with loads every day, then a diesel is not necessary.

My dually is a 22 year old big block Chevy on gas. It does everything I need it to do. I think it's the most economical truck on the road. We bought it used for $13,000 back in 2000 and paid for it in three months. The insurance on it is liability only.

Can I get on the highway and set the cruise on 80 pulling my camper with this truck? Absolutely not, but nobody needs to be towing a trailer at that speed anyway. I usually set the cruise on about 63, and manually disengage it anytime it wants to downshift to 2nd gear going up a hill.

This truck rarely gets further than 125 miles from home, and we don't have time to take a lot of camping trips throughout the year. If I was taking my camper cross country, I might have a different opinion on the matter.

If somebody was to hold a gun to my head right now and force to go to a dealer and buy a new one ton truck, I'd get the 6.4 gas Dodge or the 6.0 gas Chevy. There was a time I thought I wanted a diesel, but that is no more. The federal government has killed the diesel pickup with their silly regulations. I've got friends that have ditched their diesel trucks to go back to gas. They just didn't want to deal with the headache of owning a diesel any longer.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by B5 GTX

Side bar.....just curious how did the Dodge patrol car with the warmed over 440 in your signature tow?

Thank you for your input! The Dodge was an animal! Dad brought it home with under 20k on it. It had been a lieutenant's car. It was the full-on police package. After painting it a beautiful metallic deep olive, all 9 of us packed in to tow the Santa Fe TT all through the Sierras and the CA North Coast. We took extended trips to AZ and NM. My brother and I would laugh as we blew by trucks, big wagons, and luxury sedans towing up the mountains. We traveled through snow, ice, sand storms, and 115-120 degree wicked desert passes. Then we moved to GA and Dad used it to haul the Santa Fe TT across country. On the trip back to CA, it hauled a maxed out U-Haul (family of 9). Dad had to trade the Santa Fe TT for a hog as he worked hard to feed all of us.

When we returned to CA, Dad sold it to an uncle who used it to blow off Vettes, Mustangs, Camaros, and other muscle cars. He would creep up on them at a stop, engage their attention, and taunt them; they would laugh at him and take off thinking he was toast. Then he would hit the upper-mid range of that 440; the reared would bite down, and he would smoke 'em. The car would actually chirp the rear at 50(+)mph. I do not know what all went into that special engine and drivetrain, but that car was incredible. It may not have been "legal" for the citizenry in its day. That uncle sold it to another uncle who drove the daylights out of it in the Sierras, hauling the family and a camper throughout the mountains and using it as a daily driver. With studded tires, he said that it was the best "snow" car that he ever owned. It finally died somewhere up in the Sierras. The thing was a super reliable workhorse, a "tank"! I wish that I could get my hands on one.

So, to answer your question, the Polara was an awesome TV!

[B5 GTX]

Cool story on the Dodge, those 440's are torque monsters, Chrysler engineers really did a good job getting a lot out of them.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by B5 GTX

Cool story on the Dodge, those 440's are torque monsters, Chrysler engineers really did a good job getting a lot out of them.

It is strange how a machine can captivate and take hold of some of us. I cannot really explain it. It may be the way my dad indoctrinated us into all things auto, or it could be something innate in me and my brother, a masculine attraction to power and beautiful "steel art." My guess is that it is both forces working in me. Dad gave us a huge appreciation for the styling aesthetics of cars from the 30's-early 70's. My brother and I kind of found our way to the power and muscle on our own.

It is not hyperbole to say that we both have an almost soulful exchange with some of our vehicles. That '68 Polara was pert-nearly "alive." What a warrior! She definitely lives in our hearts and memories as a formative boyhood exchange with an influential, intimidating, and inspiring machine. I can still smell her interior, engine bay, and exhaust. I can hear her firm low rumble and her roar at take-off. I can see her clean lines and jet like tail. Don't get me started on Dad's '64 Caddy - Talk about beauty and smooth power! Man, they do not make 'em like that anymore. Real art and engineering married and memorable - Nothing sterile about them. Now I am wishin' I had my '71 C10 back!

[bdreinv]

We have an 06 Ram 3500 dully we bought new. One major repair the ECM engine control computer went out. Bought Cummins replacement from ebay 600 + 300 labor. Tires are expensive but have not having a car payment for years.Not a bad investment!

[vcbice]

I must be different. I never liked big block engines and the 60's-70's cars. Big, heavy, stupid suspensions. Not enough cooling capacity. Yes, even a Dodge Dart was heavy and lumbering.

Torque? 454 Chevy, 455 Olds, 460 Ford, 426 Hemi, 440 Wedge. Yep, they all had it to a certain degree. Had a 454 in my first MH. Yep, would pull tons. And easy to get more power from them. Just needed money...and LOTS of gas

Engines now days are SOOO much better there really is not a good comparison. You can have good torque and power and still get decent gas mileage.

[33 RLDS]

Originally Posted by vcbice

I must be different. I never liked big block engines and the 60's-70's cars. Big, heavy, stupid suspensions. Not enough cooling capacity. Yes, even a Dodge Dart was heavy and lumbering.

Torque? 454 Chevy, 455 Olds, 460 Ford, 426 Hemi, 440 Wedge. Yep, they all had it to a certain degree. Had a 454 in my first MH. Yep, would pull tons. And easy to get more power from them. Just needed money...and LOTS of gas

Engines now days are SOOO much better there really is not a good comparison. You can have good torque and power and still get decent gas mileage.

I still run my big heavy stupid 496 cubic inch engine and love it. With programming over 500 ft lbs of torque. Your right about the LOTS of gas but I don't drive it unless I'm hauling !

[B5 GTX]

Back to the original question, I recently purchased a new gas truck. I looked closely at both the gas and diesel offerings. The diesel is hands down a superior tow vehicle. The initial cost was difficult for me to justify. I feel the longevity of the newer diesels is not as good as it once was. I remember hearing that the Cummings in the Dodges would run forever, and would be trouble free while doing that. I think all of the gas offerings will give 200,000+ miles of reliable service.
Not to mention my truck is not a dedicated tow vehicle and will be used for short trips, which I hear is not good for the newer diesels. For me the gas was a better fit, many others find the diesel the top choice.

Best of luck in your search

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

My 10 year old Duramax, dedicated tow vehicle and weekender task truck, has had 2 repairs...

Replacement of Body Control Module .... ~$1000
Replace 2 glow plugs .... ~$125 each

I put about 7500 miles a year on it. I'm the second owner, currently it has 125,000 miles.

I don't do my own maintenance, so I pay the "quick lube" shop ...

~ $80 per oil change @ 5000
~ every other oil change I replace the fuel filter ~$50
~ my Allison Transmission is running Transynd. Per Allison its 100k+ fluid, so I all I do is change the spin on filter every 10k miles and top off the lost fluid ... $20/ time

Fully realize I can cut this cost in 1/2 if I did it myself.

So yes, it's only $100-$200 more depending on mileage.

As for fuel economy, and I don't need DEF, I get ~12 towing & ~18 not towing, vs when I had a 1500 gasser I experienced ~9 towing and the same ~18 not towing.

If the finances are your primary concern then maybe a diesel isn't for you. If you can justify the few hundred $ more per year, there is no comparison to towing with a diesel.

This is a personal decision only your value system and financial situation can determine.

I will never got back to towing with a gasser.

This ^ right here is my view. OP, Don't get too wrapped up in the exact costs, because the relative costs between gassers and diesels or between two different diesels is not calculable in any accurate way. It's highly variable from one vehicle to another, even though they may have identical drivetrains. Maintenance and fuel costs are predictable, but repairs and failures are not. And they are infinitely more expensive than maintenance. We drove a diesel pickup for 15 years, and expected overall costs to be about the same. They weren't likely even close. That particular model and generation of diesel needed injectors replaced 3 times in 125k miles, at $5000 per instance. Luckily, some of trhat was under warranty, and that line of diesels no longer has those issues. But you'll likely get 350,000 good hard serviceable miles out of a diesel. Not likely with any gasser pulling a load. And there is no comparison in manageable torque between the diesel and the gasser. The gasser can get in the ballpark, but you'll destroy the gasser trying to keep up with a good diesel.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

One FW that we like has an 11,200 "gross dry weight" and a 16,000 GVWR and a 2,700 "dry hitch weight." How do you think a gas 2500 would handle that? It seems like diesel and 3500 territory to me.

FeatherFam, I'm not certain about the brand new 2500's but I can assure you, my 2015 Chevy 2500 LTZ/Z71 would be overloaded. If I remember correctly, Chevy rated the 2015 at 14,000 GVWR for a FW and my CCC is 2723 lbs. We pull a Eagle HT 27.5 without issue getting 8.5mpg at 63mph.

[15BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

This ^ right here is my view. OP, Don't get too wrapped up in the exact costs, because the relative costs between gassers and diesels or between two different diesels is not calculable in any accurate way. It's highly variable from one vehicle to another, even though they may have identical drivetrains. Maintenance and fuel costs are predictable, but repairs and failures are not. And they are infinitely more expensive than maintenance. We drove a diesel pickup for 15 years, and expected overall costs to be about the same. They weren't likely even close. That particular model and generation of diesel needed injectors replaced 3 times in 125k miles, at $5000 per instance. Luckily, some of trhat was under warranty, and that line of diesels no longer has those issues. But you'll likely get 350,000 good hard serviceable miles out of a diesel. Not likely with any gasser pulling a load. And there is no comparison in manageable torque between the diesel and the gasser. The gasser can get in the ballpark, but you'll destroy the gasser trying to keep up with a good diesel.

There is a guy on the Ford truck enthusiasts forum who hauls heavy with a F450 for a living with the 6.2 gas. He got 418k miles out of it before a cam wore out. He decided to replace engine with a reman for under 3k I believe. Truck is a 2012 I think. So I would say a gas now a days will give just as long as service. I would have to read post again but only part on engine replaced was a water pump minus regular maintenance items like spark plug changes and such. Diesel is the torque king. Just depends how much you plan on towing and where. There is also a guy named rvpuller on the ford site that pulls a 15k 5er all over the west with a gasser and loves it. Averages 8.5 -9 doing it. Good luck OP only you can decide what is best for you and your pocket book.

[repacs0103]

Originally Posted by 15BlueStreak

There is a guy on the Ford truck enthusiasts forum who hauls heavy with a F450 for a living with the 6.2 gas. He got 418k miles out of it before a cam wore out. He decided to replace engine with a reman for under 3k I believe. Truck is a 2012 I think. So I would say a gas now a days will give just as long as service. I would have to read post again but only part on engine replaced was a water pump minus regular maintenance items like spark plug changes and such. Diesel is the torque king. Just depends how much you plan on towing and where. There is also a guy named rvpuller on the ford site that pulls a 15k 5er all over the west with a gasser and loves it. Averages 8.5 -9 doing it. Good luck OP only you can decide what is best for you and your pocket book.

You can't even get the 6.2 in an F450, only the V10 or diesel.

Can a gas engine make it to 400k or higher? Absolutely - but the overall percentage of engines that will do it is few compared to a diesel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[etex211]

The thing we need to remember about these diesel pickups is that they are still pickups. Even if the engine is good for a million miles, the rest of the truck will fall down around it at the same rate as any other pickup.

[15BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by repacs0103

You can't even get the 6.2 in an F450, only the V10 or diesel.

Can a gas engine make it to 400k or higher? Absolutely - but the overall percentage of engines that will do it is few compared to a diesel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep sorry my bad on the F450 thing. It must have been a 350.

Here is a link to the thread. Pretty interesting read.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...000-miles.html