Diesel vs. Gas Cost Comparison

[SawBuck]

I found this report comparing the total cost of ownership of diesel vs. gas vehicles. The study was performed by two research scientists at the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute. It was worth reading and I thought I would share it here.

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf

A couple of observations: It appears that Ford's diesel stats were skewed because of the past problems with their 6.0L. Also, I am not sure why MSRP was used in the formula for calculating TCO. It seems like actual sales prices are needed to give an accurate estimate.

I'm not shopping for a new TV, just trying to keep informed when I eventually do replace my truck.

[clubhouse]

I skimmed the report -- some interesting information.

However, for me, all I need to do was tow once with a diesel to realize it was a better choice for us. The rest of the report is just icing on the cake :-)

Seriously though, the report certainly does support a couple of things always mentioned on the forum...
- Diesel is higher up front cost, but retains considerably more value than the equivialnt gas vehicle
- Although routine maintaince is slightly higher in a diesel, primarily becasue of fluid capacity, its still doesn't add up to a point where diesel is more expensive to own when considering the total cost of ownership.
- Diesel does get better fuel economy over comparable gas engines, but its not an earth shattering improvement.

[KiltDog]

In my research I've found upgrading to a diesel is about an 8K premium, and currently diesel is about $1/gal more expensive than gas. If you're not pulling a heavy load daily, I think it's pretty hard to justify the cost to gain 1-3 MPG.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

I skimmed the report -- some interesting information.

However, for me, all I need to do was tow once with a diesel to realize it was a better choice for us. The rest of the report is just icing on the cake :-)

Seriously though, the report certainly does support a couple of things always mentioned on the forum...
- Diesel is higher up front cost, but retains considerably more value than the equivialnt gas vehicle
- Although routine maintaince is slightly higher in a diesel, primarily becasue of fluid capacity, its still doesn't add up to a point where diesel is more expensive to own when considering the total cost of ownership.
- Diesel does get better fuel economy over comparable gas engines, but its not an earth shattering improvement.

You were able to sum up over 20 pages of gobbly goop in 3 or 4 short statements. Good Job!!

The study seems to have been written more as an enviromental thing than a true D vs G evaluation. Certainly in regard to an RV tow vehicle, the data was totally distorted by including Jetta's and Mercedes etc. Anyway as a tv there is really no comparison. In the end we don't tow w/ a D for a lower cost of ownership, but do it because it is a better over all tow vehicle and coming close to a break even in TCO is just icing on the cake.

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by KiltDog

In my research I've found upgrading to a diesel is about an 8K premium, and currently diesel is about $1/gal more expensive than gas. If you're not pulling a heavy load daily, I think it's pretty hard to justify the cost to gain 1-3 MPG.

I get 4 mpg better towing with my diesel. 4 doesn't sound much better but when I was getting 9mpg and now I'm getting 13-14, it's a ~40-45% increase. Thats a big deal. About 100-115 more miles to the tank while towing. And I get about 30-40% better economy while not towing. Secondly, it will probably take me 10 years worth of driving to recoup the diesel upgrade cost. However, if you consider depreciated value, diesels are much better. They hold their price, and do so for a long time. My in laws just bought a 8 year old duramax with 60,000 miles for more than I sold my 3 year old same model truck with 25,000 for.

One huge misconception with new diesels is that the extra 8 grand is immediately depreciated. It will always be there on the value though. Some may not be able to justify a diesel, but once you've towed with one and understand the actual long term economics, diesel is the way to go. Diesel owners don't buy them because they are cheaper to run because they are pretty much neutral They buy them because towing is much better and they run forever.

[clubhouse]

Originally Posted by KiltDog

In my research I've found upgrading to a diesel is about an 8K premium, and currently diesel is about $1/gal more expensive than gas. If you're not pulling a heavy load daily, I think it's pretty hard to justify the cost to gain 1-3 MPG.

I understand every fuel market is different. Right now 8.28.14, per GasBuddy, in my little corner of California...

Independant Low Cost Station in town
#2 Diesel = $3.899
Reg 87 = $3.739

2 miles away

Name Brand Station off the highway
#2 Diesel = $4.099
Reg 87 = $3.899

Either example its not nearly $1 gallon difference.

UPDATE -- To confirm my numbers are at least relevant to CT and looked up Hartford in GasBuddy. Very Similar Numbers

Diesel - $3.899 - $4.299
Regular Unleaded - $3.699 - $3.899

[nbhybrid]

Originally Posted by UPCamper

they run forever.

There may be quite a few people wanting a lot of cash back for repairs if this was true

[jal0710]

Interesting comparison between the Chevy and GMC twins. I would have thought they would be identical, but it must be a difference in MSRP that accounts for the biggest part of the difference.

[eldermike]

It's hard to support practical logic when discussing vehicles. My guess is it's about 50/50 between practical and emotional logic that makes our decisions on trucks. You can't justify hub caps using logic, nor chrome of any kind or place.....forget leather or moon roofs.

Diesel looks better pulling a trailer and the driver feels better about it.

[KiltDog]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

I understand every fuel market is different. Right now 8.28.14, per GasBuddy, in my little corner of California...

Independant Low Cost Station in town
#2 Diesel = $3.899
Reg 87 = $3.739

2 miles away

Name Brand Station off the highway
#2 Diesel = $4.099
Reg 87 = $3.899

Either example its not nearly $1 gallon difference.

UPDATE -- To confirm my numbers are at least relevant to CT and looked up Hartford in GasBuddy. Very Similar Numbers

Diesel - $3.899 - $4.299
Regular Unleaded - $3.699 - $3.899

$

I filled up this morning for $3.55, deisel was $4.30. Not quite a dollar.

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by nbhybrid

There may be quite a few people wanting a lot of cash back for repairs if this was true

Repairs... you mean wear and tear? It's happens to everything. But...

How any gassers are running 400,000+ miles? A 300,000 mile diesel still holds value.

Here in MI, the body will be destroyed long before the engine dies.

[etex211]

Gas works best for me in my situation. Here is why....


My truck is a '96 Chevy crew cab dually with a vortec 454. We bought it in the spring of 2000, and paid $13,000 cash for it. I've put about 70,000 miles on this truck since I got it (It has about 155,000 miles total on it now), and those miles have been virtually trouble free. The only repairs I've done to it since I bought it are a water pump, a-frame bushings, hydraboost unit, EGR valve, front brakes once. Other than that, it's been tires, batteries, and oil changes.

This truck gets in the neighborhood of 6 miles per gallon pulling my trailer, depending on the conditions and how much of a hurry I am in. I pull my trailer less than 2000 miles every year, and nearly all trips are no further than 100-150 miles from home.

The truck pulls my trailer (2013 Eagle Premier 351RLTS) adequately enough. I usually set the cruise control around at around 63 mile per hour. Sure, I lose some speed going up the hills, and I have to work a little bit to prevent it from downshifting into second gear at times, but it's really no big deal.

My fuel cost on this truck, based on current gas prices, is about 50 cents per mile. Based on 2000 miles, my total fuel cost for the year is $1,000. The truck is old and paid for, so I have only liability insurance on it. Car payments are zero.

If I could get double the gas mileage with a diesel, I could cut my fuel cost roughly in half, to $500 per year. Based on those savings, it would take me 120 years to pay for a new $60,000 diesel dually.

Most used diesel trucks around here (east Texas) have been rode pretty hard. Anything less than $20,000 probably has over 200,000 miles on it. Having owned this truck for the past 14 years, I know everything that's wrong with it, and I know how it's been driven. I'd lose those known quantities with another used truck.

This is just a few thoughts. I've got a $50,000 camper and a $5,000 well worn gas truck. It works for me.

[nbhybrid]

Originally Posted by UPCamper

Repairs... you mean wear and tear? It's happens to everything. But...

How any gassers are running 400,000+ miles? A 300,000 mile diesel still holds value.

Here in MI, the body will be destroyed long before the engine dies.

lots of gas engines with that mileage. Why would you think there isnt?

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by etex211

Gas works best for me in my situation. Here is why....


My truck is a '96 Chevy crew cab dually with a vortec 454. We bought it in the spring of 2000, and paid $13,000 cash for it. I've put about 70,000 miles on this truck since I got it (It has about 155,000 miles total on it now), and those miles have been virtually trouble free. The only repairs I've done to it since I bought it are a water pump, a-frame bushings, hydraboost unit, EGR valve, front brakes once. Other than that, it's been tires, batteries, and oil changes.

This truck gets in the neighborhood of 6 miles per gallon pulling my trailer, depending on the conditions and how much of a hurry I am in. I pull my trailer less than 2000 miles every year, and nearly all trips are no further than 100-150 miles from home.

The truck pulls my trailer (2013 Eagle Premier 351RLTS) adequately enough. I usually set the cruise control around at around 63 mile per hour. Sure, I lose some speed going up the hills, and I have to work a little bit to prevent it from downshifting into second gear at times, but it's really no big deal.

My fuel cost on this truck, based on current gas prices, is about 50 cents per mile. Based on 2000 miles, my total fuel cost for the year is $1,000. The truck is old and paid for, so I have only liability insurance on it. Car payments are zero.

If I could get double the gas mileage with a diesel, I could cut my fuel cost roughly in half, to $500 per year. Based on those savings, it would take me 120 years to pay for a new $60,000 diesel dually.

Most used diesel trucks around here (east Texas) have been rode pretty hard. Anything less than $20,000 probably has over 200,000 miles on it. Having owned this truck for the past 14 years, I know everything that's wrong with it, and I know how it's been driven. I'd lose those known quantities with another used truck.

This is just a few thoughts. I've got a $50,000 camper and a $5,000 well worn gas truck. It works for me.

Nothing wrong with a gas truck, especially one that's paid for. In your example, however, you are comparing the yearly savings against buying a brand new truck. It's an 8K price difference between identical trucks/different engines.

Long and short, the money will probably never be "returned" but it definitely offsets the difference in fuel price plus some. Again, most don't buy for the cost savings of diesel.

[eldermike]

The newer DEF diesels like mine need to come up to temps often so they can regen as they should. Even in the owners manuals it tells you that if you can't get normal regens you need to force them.

The newer diesels will not replace the normal grocery getters. If you live 3 miles from work you should buy the gas version IMHO. Or at least force a regen once a week and listen to it rev in the driveway.

The new 6.7's owned by our local power company have been programed to auto regens from idle because they idle all day. They did this because of engine failing issues with low mileage/high hours on the clocks.

You should buy what you need and understand the give and take from your decision.

All vehicles are an economic loss, they are not investments.

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by nbhybrid

lots of gas engines with that mileage. Why would you think there isnt?

I've never nor heard of seen a gas vehicle with 400,000 miles. I'm sure they exist somewhere but I've encountered tons of 7.3 powerstrokes with that plus some. And there are far fewer diesels on the road. I guess semi trucks run diesel because its "cool" too huh?

[nbhybrid]

Originally Posted by UPCamper

I've never nor heard of seen a gas vehicle with 400,000 miles. I'm sure they exist somewhere but I've encountered tons of 7.3 powerstrokes with that plus some. And there are far fewer diesels on the road. I guess semi trucks run diesel because its "cool" too huh?

what is your issue?

My comment was in response to the statement they run forever. Well they don't. Nothing does without repairs. But to make a blanket statement that a gas engine can't have 400000 miles is based purely on speculation.

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by eldermike

The newer DEF diesels like mine need to come up to temps often so they can regen as they should. Even in the owners manuals it tells you that if you can't get normal regens you need to force them.

The newer diesels will not replace the normal grocery getters. If you live 3 miles from work you should buy the gas version IMHO. Or at least force a regen once a week and listen to it rev in the driveway.

The new 6.7's owned by our local power company have been programed to auto regens from idle because they idle all day. They did this because of engine failing issues with low mileage/high hours on the clocks.

You should buy what you need and understand the give and take from your decision.

All vehicles are an economic loss, they are not investments.

I have a 6.7 as well. I can't imagine ever needed a REGEN weekly unless it idles continuously. The operator commanded regen is a nice option though. For whatever reason, Ford does not want this engine idling for hours. Many of the most restrictive maintenance items are based on idle time.

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by nbhybrid

what is your issue?

My comment was in response to the statement they run forever. Well they don't. Nothing does without repairs. But to make a blanket statement that a gas engine can't have 400000 miles is based purely on speculation.

Run forever is what they refer to as a figure of speech. It means operating life far exceeds what's usually expected. I never said they'd do it without repair. I didn't say a gasser can't have 400,000 on it. I said if they exist they are rare. I see tons of diesels in that range. And considering they are far fewer diesel vehicles on the road, that probably isn't by pure luck. Again, how many long haul over the road gassers exist?

[nbhybrid]

Originally Posted by UPCamper

Run forever is what they refer to as a figure of speech. It means operating life far exceeds what's usually expected. I never said they'd do it without repair. I didn't say a gasser can't have 400,000 on it. I said if they exist they are rare. I see tons of diesels in that range. And considering they are far fewer diesel vehicles on the road, that probably isn't by pure luck. Again, how many long haul over the road gassers exist?

what are you talking about semi trucks for?

you seem terribly defensive about your decision to own a diesel...I am ok with your decision...lol