Driver's License for Large Fifth Wheel

[Isaacs]

I've kicked around the idea of getting a large fifth wheel and a 3/4 or 1 ton truck to pull it with. After doing some research on both the Federal and State level, it would seem that I would need a class A driver's license to pull one of these.

I currently have a CDL B license which will, in New York, allow me to pull any combination of truck and trailer as long as it doesn't have a GCWR of more than 26,000 pounds. The truck would clock in at about 10,000 or more (right?) leaving me with 16,000 pounds for the trailer GVWR. Several of the Jayco fifth wheels are rated heavier than that. Do people seriously go out and get a tractor trailer license to pull this stuff? Would it make any difference if I had some sort on non CDL license?

To make things more confusing, the Federal web site states that the trailer has to weigh under 10,000 pounds regardless of what you're pulling it with if you don't have a class A. I thought the federal standards were supposed to be minimum requirements that the states could add upon which does not seem to be the case with New York. The federal site makes little mention of any non CDL licenses.

I'd be interested to know if any of you have any thoughts on this.

Thanks, Bob

[merlinhomeauto]

You need to check with your state on NON CDL requirement. Your class B CDL allows you to be over 26,000lbs towing under 10,000lbs. RVs only fall under CDL if transporting commercially. Some states are starting non CDL licensing for RVs.

[bluie5]

If your pulling your personal RV, and not pulling commercially for profit, you would not need a CDL. In Wisconsin for instance you only need a Class D, regular license to operate a car, and nothing else.

[shadester]

This is what NY says for a Class D:

Changes for Drivers with Current Class D Licenses. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:

• A truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. (Before, a Class D driver could only operate a vehicle with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less.), and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs., but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.

A driver with a Class D license can now operate a personal use vehicle (for example a rental vehicle or a recreational vehicle or RV) with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or more, but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.


So my unit is well under 26,000lbs when loaded. Although my truck GCWR is rated at 32,000lbs. Some laws are written in riddles. But when they say with two vehicles together must be 26,000lbs are less makes me believe I'm fine. But, If they said when both GVWR are added together exceeds 26,000lbs I'd really freak.

[CampNow]

DOT licensing statutes don't apply to privately owned, non-commercially operated RV's.

If you're legally licensed to drive your RV in your legal state of residence you can legally drive it anywhere in the US regardless of the licensing requirements of the state you're traveling through. However, this is not applicable to special RV configurations like tandem/double/triple towing. If it's illegal in the state you're driving through, it's illegal.

Here's some good info on RV licensing requirements from state to state:

RV Driver's License Requirements

[Mad Cow]

As one who holds a Class A CDL with every endorsement available, I can tell you that if you don't need one, don't get one. If your state doesn't require it, don't get it and every other state has reciprocity so that you will not need it in any other state if your state doesn't require it. Like has been stated, it is primarily for commercial activity, not personal. And to that end, it is remote that anyone would stop and check you. The only ones that get checked hauling around a 5th wheel is the transport drivers hauling them from the factory to dealers. That is commercial activity and so they fall under the FMCSA guidelines. And they have transport company information and DOT numbers on the side of their pickup, making them easy to spot in a crowd.

[Isaacs]

Originally Posted by shadester

This is what NY says for a Class D:

Changes for Drivers with Current Class D Licenses. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:

• A truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. (Before, a Class D driver could only operate a vehicle with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less.), and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs., but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.

A driver with a Class D license can now operate a personal use vehicle (for example a rental vehicle or a recreational vehicle or RV) with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or more, but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.


So my unit is well under 26,000lbs when loaded. Although my truck GCWR is rated at 32,000lbs. Some laws are written in riddles. But when they say with two vehicles together must be 26,000lbs are less makes me believe I'm fine. But, If they said when both GVWR are added together exceeds 26,000lbs I'd really freak.

They don't say that the two vehicles have to weigh less than 26,000 pounds, they say that the two of them must have a combined weight rating of less than 26,000 pounds. You have to add up the GVWR of both the truck and trailer which may put you over.

This is my point--there are a lot of people out there who are technically driving illegally aka driving without a license! Your chances of getting pulled over are slim but your insurance company may take a slightly harder stance on this if you get into an accident.

[Isaacs]

Originally Posted by merlinhomeauto

You need to check with your state on NON CDL requirement. Your class B CDL allows you to be over 26,000lbs towing under 10,000lbs. RVs only fall under CDL if transporting commercially. Some states are starting non CDL licensing for RVs.

Ok, this makes sense. The DOT minimum requirements don't apply for non commercial applications. I guess the states can then make up their own rules.

As far as checking with my state, that's like asking someone to put hot splinters under my fingernails! But I think I'll be brave and pay them a visit when I get home from snow-birding just to see what they have to say. I'm betting they're going to say I need a class A for the larger trailers.

[eagleback]

They go by GVWR on the truck and trailer combined. I dose not matter what the actual weight is. Texas drivers are one state that has a requirement. I have a farm endorsement for interstate on my truck and drivers license so I'm good to go.

[PlayersZ28]

I'm over according to the Ontario specs. Truck is 11,500# GVWR (9900# registered), trailer is 14995#, limit is 24000# or 24250# if you convert from the kg they spec.

[shadester]

Originally Posted by Isaacs

They don't say that the two vehicles have to weigh less than 26,000 pounds, they say that the two of them must have a combined weight rating of less than 26,000 pounds. You have to add up the GVWR of both the truck and trailer which may put you over.

This is my point--there are a lot of people out there who are technically driving illegally aka driving without a license! Your chances of getting pulled over are slim but your insurance company may take a slightly harder stance on this if you get into an accident.

When I talked to DMV in NY, The guy said I was fine. In Texas it says you add GVW of both together from what I see. I would be well over that. But GCWR is truck and trailer together as one from how he explained it. But having a truck with a 26000lb GVW you couldn't tow anything then. See the third paragrah. He did say if I weigh in over 26001lbs I'd need a endorsement R.

Third paragraph:

Changes for Drivers with Current Class D Licenses. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:

• A truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. (Before, a Class D driver could only operate a vehicle with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less.), and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, and
• A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs., but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.

So if I do the 3rd paragraph they way it's done in Texas, I'd be at 36,000lbs. GVW + GVW = GCWR, that's my point.

[shadester]

Isaac, your right. I called today to clarify this as I had that 26000lb number in my mind. As you said, it goes by the GVWR of Both. I for one will have to go take that test. Not worried about taking the test, the hard part is finding someone to drive me there to do it with a R or cdl.

[Isaacs]

From what I've read on the NYS site, the "R" designation will only be good for a single vehicle more than 26,000 pounds like a large motorhome. It says nothing about the combined weight rating of truck and trailer added together. What a mess!

So, are you going for the "R" thingy or a class A? I don't think they offer a non CDL class A and I think the only way to get a CDL class A is through an approved school. Or when you say you're looking for someone with a CDL do you mean a Class A and you're planning on taking the test with your rig? From what I can see, my CDL class B does me no good at all so I can't imagine that I could escort someone to a test for the "R" thingy. How is it that a class D and a class B have the exact same towing restrictions?

I've seen some posts on another forum because I'm very curious about this. The general consensus seems to be that the people at DMV know little or nothing about it. Only New York and apparently Texas could create a mess like this!

[shadester]

You won't believe this! So I call my local DMV office this morning to ask them how long I have to take the test for the D with the R. She tells me I need a cdl. I said I was told I need a D with the R last time I called. She then told me she would call me back in 20 mins. She calls me back and insist I need a class A cdl. So I call ALbany and tell them what truck and 5th wheel I have and they tell me I need a regular class D with the R. Anything over 45' or a combined GVWR of over 26000lbs. So I'm so confused more then ever. I told them what my local office told me and what can I do. They said to try a different office near me.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by shadester

You won't believe this! So I call my local DMV office this morning to ask them how long I have to take the test for the D with the R. She tells me I need a cdl. I said I was told I need a D with the R last time I called. She then told me she would call me back in 20 mins. She calls me back and insist I need a class A cdl. So I call ALbany and tell them what truck and 5th wheel I have and they tell me I need a regular class D with the R. Anything over 45' or a combined GVWR of over 26000lbs. So I'm so confused more then ever. I told them what my local office told me and what can I do. They said to try a different office near me.

Sounds like MTO in Ontario. Nobody you talk to knows the actual rules and the website is impossible to figure it out from. Was told at one point I needed to run a log book for hauling, then I was told that for an RV trailer I need to do nothing because they don't count for the weight. It's all as clear as mud.

[Isaacs]

Originally Posted by shadester

You won't believe this! So I call my local DMV office this morning to ask them how long I have to take the test for the D with the R. She tells me I need a cdl. I said I was told I need a D with the R last time I called. She then told me she would call me back in 20 mins. She calls me back and insist I need a class A cdl. So I call ALbany and tell them what truck and 5th wheel I have and they tell me I need a regular class D with the R. Anything over 45' or a combined GVWR of over 26000lbs. So I'm so confused more then ever. I told them what my local office told me and what can I do. They said to try a different office near me.

Sounds like the IRS! Maybe we could dig and find the actual law where this stuff is written and see if it makes any sense. I think there has to be a typo or something in their website. How about a registered letter to the commissioner asking for an explanation? It really warms my heart to know we're paying the salaries of these people.

[Cannon]

It vary's from state to state. In Ga. you do not need CDL but you need an E endorsement for any combo over 26,001 lbs. if trailer has a gvwr of over 10,000 lbs.

[merlinhomeauto]

All this misinformation from local MV offices makes me glad I didn't give up my class A CDL. Good luck finding right information.

[RAurand]

Originally Posted by merlinhomeauto

All this misinformation from local MV offices makes me glad I didn't give up my class A CDL. Good luck finding right information.

X-2

[shadester]

Originally Posted by Isaacs

Sounds like the IRS! Maybe we could dig and find the actual law where this stuff is written and see if it makes any sense. I think there has to be a typo or something in their website. How about a registered letter to the commissioner asking for an explanation? It really warms my heart to know we're paying the salaries of these people.

I called another office today, they said the same as Albany. I explained it was a 1 ton truck again with a 5th wheel RV for personal use over 26000lbs according to both GVWR combined. He said I need the D with the R endorsement. He said just go to my local office and apply for that. Show up to the test with the unit and if it's still in question then, have them call Albany to verify. I guess some have no clue or how it's written is screwy. Went today but it was crowded, so I'll apply next week They said once you apply you have 90 days to take the test.

I did find this which explains exactly what the R stands for: https://www.troopers.ny.gov/FAQs/Tra...cial_Vehicles/


House Coach (RV’s)

Q Do I need a special license to drive a 45-foot house coach?

No – Class D with a personal use endorsement.

Q. What license do I need if my house coach is over 26,000 pounds GVWR?

Class D with a personal use endorsement.

https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Docum...ta=(sc.Default)

(iii) Personal use vehicle endorsement. An R endorsement is the personal use vehicle endorsement. It is required on a non-CDL for operation of recreational vehicles and rental vehicles over 26,000 pounds GVWR or over 40 feet in length for transportation of personal household goods. It shall be issued upon passage of a skills test in a recreational vehicle over 26,000 pounds GVWR or over 40 feet in length when the licensee has not passed a CDL skills test.

Now all you have to ask yourself Isaacs, Are you ready to go bigger?