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Old 03-30-2022, 01:52 PM   #21
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There is lots of difference. I have a 24' enclosed race trailer and it max out at 7800. I've had F150 4wd and 1500 Chevy. Now have a 2500HD 4wd and no comparison between the two. I know there's people on here that will say you don't need the bigger truck but I doubt they ever had one.
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Old 03-30-2022, 09:49 PM   #22
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When we bought our 6800 lb TT we had a 2010 Avalanche (1/2 ton). MPG pulling it was from a high of about 9 to a low of 6 all depending on the standard things - wind, hill or no hill and overall combined weight. Any slight hill the RPMs would climb and if in cruise control would eventually need to disengage it to lower them. Sometimes in windy conditions a gust of wind would keep you on your toes. We used to take the Avalanche on vacation (w/o TT) due to it being more comfortable than the car we had at the time and the room the Avalanche had. I used it for my daily vehicle.

In 2015 we purchased a 2015 2500HD Diesel as we were looking to buy a 5th wheel at some point in the future. Pulling that same 6800 lb TT MPG was from a high of 10.5-11.5 to a low of 9.0-9.5 all again based on how other things factored in. In windy conditions you still had to be on your toes at times, but that is the nature of a TT as they can tend to start swaying with little warning. We did buy a 16000 lb 5th wheel and the towing was like night and day from towing the TT. One of our first trips was in a 25 mph cross wind and only felt the wind one time in 500 miles. MPG remained about the same. When pulling hills RPMs were reasonable never having to disengage cruise control. The 2500 HD was fairly comfortable but not as much as the Avalanche. I still used it as my daily vehicle.

Last year we upgraded to a 3500 HD Diesel Dually. Pulling the 5th wheel thus far, the MPG is not as good as the 2500 HD was ranging from a high of about 9.5 to a low of 7.5. It is not as comfortable as the 2500 HD and we park out in the north 40 when are out shopping as we travel with the 5th wheel. With the dually towing can almost let it drive itself with lite touches on the steering wheel on straight roads like an interstate. It just pulls the straightest of all the TV's I have ever had. I have since been fully retired and don't use it as a daily vehicle except when we snowbird then it is the only vehicle we use. When back home tend to use the car and leave the dually sit.

Just relaying my experience with a couple of different sized TV's. I don't think you will regret moving up to at least a 3/4 TV. A gas will mostly likely be okay for you with your current TT, but if you can afford the upgrade go diesel. I won't ever have a gas TV again as I love the pulling power of a diesel, plus you are able to utilize the truck lanes when hitched up. Doesn't matter brand, just do research and get the one that fits your needs and you are comfortable with.

Good luck and be safe -
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Old 03-30-2022, 10:40 PM   #23
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I’ll condense 22 messages…

If you tow anything bigger than a tent trailer get a 2500/250 or a 3500/350. Ram/Chev/Ford, doesn’t matter much…
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:53 AM   #24
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2020 JFeather 27RL owner

I have a 2020 Jay Feather 27RL and was pulling it with a 2017 F-150, 5.0 litre, short box, XTR and was getting tired of the 'tail wagging the dog' on most trips. I was looking at upgrading to a F-250 until I looked into purchasing a 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTD, LTZ, 6'2 litre, standard box. After returning from a 2,500 mile trip to Florida, couple days with 40 mph wind gust and rain, I was very pleased with my decision to purchased the Silverado. With 420 horsepower, 460 pound-feet of torque and the standard size bed (longer wheel base) it made my driving experience much more relaxing. AND...the multi-flex tailgate and bumper steps made climbing in and out of the bed much easier on my 70 year old body. My experience driving to Florida from Southern Ontario convinced me that I have plenty of truck to safely pull my 2020 Jay Feather 27RL.
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Old 03-31-2022, 09:38 AM   #25
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Here we go again.

There can be a lot of opinion vs facts in threads such as these. You can usually identify opinions when the wording is brief, appears to be only a stated belief, states wild claims such as "night and day difference", states ridiculous conclusions such as all half-tons are all no good for towing most travel trailers, contains no actual supporting facts, and/or is heavily one-sided with pros but no cons (there are always cons). Opinions can be good (and some here are good) or they can be misleading (and some here are), but facts are facts and something much better to make important decisions with.

You will get a lot of heavily biased opinions that only a 3/4 ton or a 1-ton is a suitable tow vehicle and a bigger truck is always better. This simply isn't true. That's an opinion, not a fact. Every truck, no matter what its broad classification, will have its specific tow specifications and specs. If you stay well within those specifications, the tow vehicle is qualified. That's a fact, not an opinion.

Bigger can be better but it's not always better or necessary, that's a gross oversimplification. Bigger has negative consequences too such as higher costs, harsher ride, worse fuel economy, use as a daily driver, and height possibly too high and heavily sprung for some smaller TTs. What you want is the correct tow vehicle properly matched to your specific trailer and requirements (see my other post above in this thread which covers this).

If you want to consider a decent opinion, consider one suggesting something, not insisting on it. Those insisting that you must always purchase a bigger tow vehicle than what's necessary, specs be damned, oddly often ignore their own advice. If they followed their own advice, then the 3/4 ton owners should have purchased a 1-ton for the bigger RVs that they pull and the 1-ton single axles should have purchased a dual-axle. This is not my illogic, it's their own, yet many don't follow it because its simplistic approach does not make sense in all cases as they imply.

I made this point and many more in another similar thread which was ultimately shut down, probably due to it devolving into sarcasm. Treads like this can get ugly because people are highly opinionated about this particular subject. It's very difficult or impossible to have a factual discussion when opinions outnumber facts.

This post may generate a bunch of flaming opinions as my posts on the other thread did, cherry-picking anything I said and ignoring any facts I presented (read it for yourself here). Be prepared for that. But proper balance is important in any discussion, as well as having all the facts. I'm definitely not advising you to choose a half-ton or any other specific tow vehicle for that matter. I'm advising you to make the choice that's right for you based on all the pertinent facts, not just one-sided, biased opinions.

Before this thread is also shut down, I advise you do your own thorough research into the subject. Stay away from forum discussions about it because you'll get more emotions and personal opinions than the actual information you require which might cause you to make the wrong decision for your particular situation. I can't emphasize enough that what you need is to factually determine what specific tow vehicle is best for your specific situation, not what was best for someone else's.

Stick to well-documented unbiased articles on the subject and pay very close attention to the actual manufacturers' towing specifications for the specific make, model, and option packages of whatever tow vehicle you're considering because there are many differences in specs even for the same model. Never just simply look at the maximum tow ratings, find the actual specific specs before you buy anything. Understand all the facts involved, especially the tow vehicle's maximum payload, vehicle towing capacity, trailer gross vehicle weight, and trailer loaded tongue weight. All of these variables need to all work safely together with a good margin of safety. Whatever tow vehicle you choose must be properly and safely matched to the trailer you want.

The bottom line is that every tow vehicle has its capabilities and limitations, it makes no difference what it's labeled. If you're safely within those limits, then the tow vehicle is properly matched to the trailer be it a half-ton, 3/4 ton, or a 1-ton. Don't let anyone tell you differently. If you want to buy more truck than you need, that's fine and can be a good thing, but that's an option, not a necessity, and not always within an individual's best interests when all factors are fully considered. Takes facts as facts but take opinions for what you think they're worth.
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Old 03-31-2022, 02:38 PM   #26
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Everyone here is entitled to their opinion on any subject, controversial or not. Several other that appear occasionally that come to mind are oil, tires, cleaning chemicals and beer. The object of this forum is to offer possibilities to issues, problems, situations, or just general newbie questions in a civil and friendly manner. The OP then has the task of deciding which direction they wish to pursue.

We all have our favorites. Mine are Motorcraft and Quaker State, Michelin, and Michelob. Cleaning chemicals may vary.
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Old 03-31-2022, 02:55 PM   #27
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Firestone and Mobil for me. Oh, and I currently own Fords, Chevys, a bunch of Dodge Ram products, and a random Mercedes just to keep it interesting........
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:44 PM   #28
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I had mentioned in the last similar post and continue to share my thought which is that a truck is like a tool, and with a wide range and choice of tools available, it is always best to find the tool that is most optimal for the task at hand.

With that in mind, Bud Light is the tool I like to use most often, although sometimes I need a stronger tool like Crown Royal.
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:46 PM   #29
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I currently have a 2020 F150 3.5 EB Tow package truck pulling a max load of 7500lb Camper ( Jayco 27RL). It pulls it fine. I am in TX and its flat.

I was camping with the wifes friends and they guys were telling me if I have a 250, I wont even no the camper is back there.

Is that true ?
Your rig's specs.

The 7000# GVWR is well within your limits.
The tongue weight, however, is on the hefty side: 730#
Add in 50 to 100# of WDH along with whatever payload is in your truck...including passengers, pets, toys, groceries, game systems, tools in the toolbox, and so on, and you are likely crowding your truck's payload max.
Do your own math on that. But my payload, with humans, chihuahuas, extra water, a couple propane tanks for the fire pit, fuel for the portable genny, a bed-mounted toolbox that's kinda full...etc., and my half ton is surely toting at least 3/4 of a ton when the coupler is on the hitch ball.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JKt7owqVGlE/mqdefault.jpg

Then again, you say "...it pulls fine." If you're not overloaded, and if this is the case, there's no reason to buy a bigger truck. The jump from a 150 to a 250 will cost you big bucks, and it's only worthwhile if you really need it.

As for the silly claim that you "...wont even no the camper is back there," nonsense. That all depends on the drivetrain you put in that F250. What matters?
Torque
Horsepower
Final Drive Ratio

You CAN equip an F-250 to be a real stump puller, and you'll pay for it at the gas pump. And fuggedaboud a diesel. You'll spend at least $10K extra for an oil burner, and, while they can pull the teeth out of a hippo, and while they do get better MPG, the odds of you ever recovering the up-front investment in fuel savings are slim to none. And then there's DEF and maintenance/repair costs that will cause fainting spells.

Don't get me wrong. Here in the mountains of Colorado...at altitude...I've seen turbo-diesel duallies pulling 40' toy haulers ramp onto I-70, going uphill, accelerating faster than a pony car. It's eye popping. 700 to 900 lb-ft of torque will do that for you. And you can bet they pay for it, too.

Meanwhile, a gasser in a 250 or 350 chassis isn't magic. And a naturally aspirated gasser up against what I presume is your pressurized 3.5 liter, will lose ground to you with every 1000 feet of altitude...all the way up to 8500 to 9000 feet. Your turbo will run like it's at sea level until you are approaching the tree line. My 5.7 liter so-called "hemi" starts getting breathless at those altitudes. (And that, by the way, is where I live - 7500' - and start every journey...and it's usually all uphill from there. )

So, in sum, if you are not exceeding your truck's payload limits with that beefy tongue weight combined with all the detritus in your truck, and if you don't have $80K to throwdown on a shiny new diesel, think long and hard about blowing your wad on a gasser F-250.

And let's not forget that, right now, it's a seller's market in trucks. There's a reason that most of the ads these days are talking about placing an order rather than discounted inventory on the lot. And the "lightly used" market is even worse. Used trucks are selling at wallet-melting prices.

That's my input...worth every penny you paid for it.

PS. I'm dragging my rig around with a 2006 Ram 1500 - Jayco JayFeather X-213. Admittedly the tongue is lighter by 220 pounds and 1500 pounds worth of GVWR, but my truck is naturally aspirated, has a glorified 3 speed transmission with electronic OD, AND we always boondock, so I routinely carry another 250 pounds (28 gallons) of water in the bed. I routinely drive over 11,500 mountain passes...see pic. My max tow rating is 7700 pounds. I would not think of wasting my money on a 3/4 ton truck...especially since, when I'm not towing the RV, nothing justifies all the extra expense.
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:59 PM   #30
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150- Craft Shows, Jazzercize Class, picking up boxed furniture from Ikea.
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Old 03-31-2022, 04:04 PM   #31
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150- Craft Shows, Jazzercize Class, picking up boxed furniture from Ikea.
Super Duty- Towing
Never been to a Jazzercize class. I guess I'd better look into it.
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:17 AM   #32
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Everyone here is entitled to their opinion on any subject, controversial or not. Several other that appear occasionally that come to mind are oil, tires, cleaning chemicals and beer. The object of this forum is to offer possibilities to issues, problems, situations, or just general newbie questions in a civil and friendly manner. The OP then has the task of deciding which direction they wish to pursue.

We all have our favorites. Mine are Motorcraft and Quaker State, Michelin, and Michelob. Cleaning chemicals may vary.
oh you are you trying to start an oil thread fight?
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:56 AM   #33
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oh you are you trying to start an oil thread fight?
Nope...beer.
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Old 04-01-2022, 12:28 PM   #34
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Nope...beer.
i think you have to actually list a "beer" not colored water
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Old 04-01-2022, 12:35 PM   #35
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Where does Budweiser fit in the picture?
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Old 04-01-2022, 12:40 PM   #36
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Where does Budweiser fit in the picture?
Isn't that a horse farm?
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Old 04-01-2022, 12:47 PM   #37
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Where does Budweiser fit in the picture?
It may not. Can't believe I turned into a "beer snob" but there are so many craft beer brewers around Michigan's Upper Peninsula right now, I'm concentrating on at least trying the fairly local ones, Keweenaw brewery has great beer. Upper Hand brewery in Escanaba, and many more, some not canned or bottled, just on tap.

https://www.michigan.org/article/tri...sula-breweries
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:09 PM   #38
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I went from 260 down to 160 by drinking Miller Lite, can't abandon it now.
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:13 PM   #39
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An F150 can absolutely pull just as heavy a trailer as the F250 or even F350.


April Fools!!! now where is my beer? ~CA
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:42 PM   #40
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Tow Vehicle / Travel Trailer Qualification 101

It's best to dispense with any guesswork and speculation and know for certain if your specific tow vehicle is qualified to pull your specific travel trailer. Here's how. This is a condensed guide but it covers the basics. You can read more in-depth articles on this elsewhere.

Towing Specs
First, you need to have the exact towing specs for your specific tow vehicle right down to your VIN. Never use a ballpark published spec for your truck model, your actual towing specs are specific to your VIN due to your selected options and final build weights. You'll have a maximum towing capacity and a maximum payload specification for your specific VIN. Look for a label on the truck, or contact the vehicle manufacturer. RAM has a website that allows you to look up your specific towing specs via your VIN. Ford, GM, etc. should have some similar service.

Once you know your exact towing specs, you can start figuring out which TTs you can safely tow.

Towing Capacity
Towing capacity is the maximum amount of weight your vehicle can tow. This is dependent upon the powertrain, the vehicle's weight, rear-axle ratio, and more. It can vary widely even within a vehicle model due to numerous option selections. You don't need to worry about calculating it, the manufacturer does that for you for your specific VIN. You need to know this specification.

The towing capacity qualification is vital. The maximum towing capacity weight of the tow vehicle must always be greater than the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of the TT, and it's best to include a safety margin.

To determine the TT's GVW, you first need to know the weight of your TT as it was delivered from the factory. Do not use the manufacturer's published figure, this is only an estimate and may not include your options and other factors. The actual build weight of your TT should be listed on a yellow label attached to the side of it.



Now you must add the weight of everything you put into or onto the TT including all cargo and any water in the tanks. You can figure this out either by weighing all cargo you add or using a CAT scale if you're lucky enough to live near one. If not, then it's not as hard as you may think to weigh everything if you start from scratch. I do this and keep a google spreadsheet on it. It's a bit of a pain, but it's doable. For variable things like groceries, just leave a practical allowance. For water, you can use 8.4 lbs per gallon, but it's usually best to tow with the tanks empty if you can, unless you are boondocking. It's ok to add some fresh water if you have enough weight capacity.

Once you determine the GVW of the trailer, compare it to the maximum towing capacity. The general recommendation is to leave at least 20% capacity for safety. So, if your towing capacity was 12,000 lbs for example, you're qualified to safely tow a TT with a GVW of 9,600 lbs or less. For this example, let's say your TT GVW was 7000 lbs. You're qualified concerning tow capacity.

Before we move on, we also have to consider the trailer's GVWR. This is more of a qualification for the trailer than the tow vehicle, but a lot of people confuse GVW with GVWR. The GVW of a trailer can be less than its GVWR, but never vice versa and the GVWR should not be used to definitively select a tow vehicle because the GVW can be way under the GVWR. Read on.

Trailer GVWR
You must never exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the trailer itself. GVWR is the maximum GVW the trailer is rated for. If your trailer weighs 6000 lbs empty, and its GVWR is 7500 lbs, then you have no more than 1500 lbs cargo capacity. Try to keep it significantly lower for a margin of safety.

You sometimes hear that a tow vehicle's towing capacity must always be greater than the TT's GVWR. I've even seen this in published articles on towing specs. While this may be a somewhat decent estimate in some situations, it is not a hard and fast rule. Some dual axle trailers have an exceptional GVWR giving them a cargo capacity of 2000 lbs or more. However, if the actual GVW never exceeds the tow vehicle's towing capacity with a margin of safety, this would not disqualify the tow vehicle. So, be aware of that. It's the actual TT GVW that's the qualifier for the tow vehicle, not the TT's GVWR.

Payload Capacity
This is the tough one and the primary limiting factor for most tow vehicles, even for 3/4 and 1-tons as well as half-tons. HD trucks obviously have payload capacities too and they often tow massive TTs and fifth-wheels. So all towing vehicles need to pass these qualifications, not just half-tons. You're not out of the woods simply because you own an HD truck. Once you have the payload capacity for your VIN, you can start.

You must first subtract the weight of all cargo and passengers you have in the tow vehicle from its max payload. This weight will vary widely. Some people tow with two adults, a few kids, and a couple of big dogs, whereas others have no additional passengers or pets. Some will load up the bed of the truck with all kinds of cargo whereas others will leave it almost empty. Whatever passengers and cargo you put in your truck is payload and must be subtracted off of the max payload capacity. Even the weight of the WDH is cargo. It should be noted that many manufacturers do not include the driver's weight with the max payload whereas others may. Check your owner's manual for this. Fluids, including a full tank of gas, are usually not considered payload, but again always check your owner's manual.

Now it's time to consider the TT. The TT's tongue weight is also payload so whatever you have left from your max payload spec is now your maximum allowable TT tongue weight.

A TT's tongue weight can also vary widely depending upon the weight of the TT, its build weight distribution, the cargo weight, and the cargo's weight distribution. However, the tongue weight must remain in the range of 10-15% of the TT's GVW to mitigate trailer sway. So, if its GVW ends up being 7000 lbs, for example, the tongue weight must be between 700-1050 lbs. The trailer manufacturer should have distributed the build weight to fall into this range, but you are responsible for correctly distributing whatever cargo you add to maintain it. Cargo weight and distribution can add or subtract from the TT's unloaded tongue weight. You should have some way to measure the tongue weight to determine this. You can purchase a tongue weight scale for this or easily make one of your own as I did (instructions available upon request). I know of one WDH that has a tongue weight scale built-in. You should try to distribute the cargo to achieve a tongue weight of around 10-11% of the GVW if you can as a starting point. This will be within the safety margin and provide the minimum payload to the tow vehicle. You always can tweak this if necessary by further moving cargo around.

So, for example, if your tow vehicle had a maximum payload of 1850 lbs and you subtracted say 700 lbs for all truck passengers/cargo, that would leave you with 1150 lbs of payload left for tongue weight. If the tongue weight of your 7000 lb GVW TT was 11% of the GVW, it would be 770 lbs. If you use a 20% payload safety margin, that would leave 920 lbs. out of the 1150 lbs. So, your 770 lb tongue weight is well within the maximum payload spec with a safety margin.

Your tow vehicle is now qualified. However, if any of the qualifications are out of spec for your tow vehicle and/or TT, or if you are in spec but pushing it way too far to the high end, you need to move up to the next size tow vehicle or a smaller TT and start over. Hopefully, you realized this before you purchased a tow vehicle and trailer because starting over can be very expensive and not to be taken lightly. Many people can find themselves in this situation if they didn't properly run all the numbers beforehand.

You must always qualify your tow vehicle for your TT. Even if safety is not a primary concern for you, as it should be, you can void your truck's/TT's warranty. Worse yet, if you get into an accident and they do an investigation that concludes your tow vehicle and/or TT was not properly qualified, your insurance may not cover it and you may be liable for all damages which could be financially devasting. You may even face criminal charges, especially if someone was hurt or worse. Never tow overloaded.

Tow Vehicle / Travel Trailer Qualification 102

All tow vehicles should use a Weight Distributing/Sway Reducing Hitch. Not only do WDHs distribute weight from the tow vehicle's rear axle to its front axle to help re-level it, but they also distribute weight from the tow vehicle's rear axle to the trailer's rear axle(s) to help reduce the load on the tow vehicle. This cannot increase your towing capacity but it can help with your payload as well as help ensure you don't exceed the truck's gross axle weight rating (GAWR). The distributed weight to the trailer's axle(s) can be as much as a few hundred pounds. This reduces the payload on the tow vehicle for an additional margin of safety. A lot of people don't realize this and never take it into consideration, but it is an important factor, especially for half-tons. You can verify this with the proper use of a CAT scale.

Watch this well-done video explaining exactly how this works with an actual, precise empirical demonstration. The video is about Airbags vs a WDH but it covers weight distribution equally as well.


Finally, consider TT length. There aren't many great rules or calculations for this so use common sense. Just because you might find a modern TT using ultralight technology to build a very long TT in your weight range, does not necessarily qualify it for use with a lighter duty tow vehicle. For example, the latest generation of half-tons should probably not go beyond 32-34 feet or so (IMO). You probably need an HD truck for anything longer. Again, use common sense. If you have any doubts or it's too close to call, go with a bigger tow vehicle if you can afford it or select a smaller TT provided it meets all your other practical considerations such as fuel economy, ride, and use as a daily driver and TT size/features. It's not easy making everything work together, so you have to prioritize your requirements and work within your individual situation. Compromises may need to be made. This is why no one set of advice or opinions applies to everyone.

Once you've very carefully considered all the towing specifications and weights involved and calculated the math, you now know if your specific tow vehicle is qualified to pull your specific travel trailer. You don't need guesswork, speculation, or to rely upon others' opinions to know if you're qualified or not. You should never rely on those. Always do your own thorough research and measurements and consider everything involved. It can take months to research and decide.

Don't stop here, this is just a primer. There is no shortage of good articles on this to cover anything I may have missed.
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