GCWR- Law vs. Manufacturer

[RAurand]

This will solve all the weight problems. This is what a friend of mine does. Full timer too.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by 2edgesword

"So in my case, with an F250 (10,000#) and a Jayco 28.5RSTS, (10,995#) = 19,995#"

What public school did you graduate from?

Old math: 10,000# + 10,995# = 20,995#

Sorry about that- Yes- if you add my truck and trailer GVWR together you get 20,995.
My truck GCWR is 19,500.
So if a cop only looks at the stickers and not the actual weights, I will be considered over on my GCWR, even empty. (If that ever even happens in real life)

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RAurand

This will solve all the weight problems. This is what a friend of mine does. Full timer too.

And in many states (like Ohio) you do not need a CDL to drive that rig since it is not used in "commercial" service!

[Gizmopilot]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Sorry about that- Yes- if you add my truck and trailer GVWR together you get 20,995.
My truck GCWR is 19,500.
So if a cop only looks at the stickers and not the actual weights, I will be considered over on my GCWR, even empty. (If that ever even happens in real life)

Do you plan on towing with your trailer loaded to the max of its 10,995lbs?

The empty weight is listed as 8620 - you don’t have to tow with full water etc.

Depending on how you ordered it the empty weight will vary typically higher.

You are obviously close on your weights for this trailer.

I’m curious how they will determine your GCVWR - I don’t believe it is on the door jamb - only mvwr and the axle ratings, not tow ratings?

I know on the fords it is a royal PIA to figure out - look at the towing guide, then figure out what options have been installed(ie towing, vs max tow, just a hitch), wheels, gearing, engines, box lengths, 4x4, etc.

So as long as you don’t go over any of the ratings on the stickers you should be legal from a traffic stop perspective - if it was investigated in court that is a different issue, such as because of an accident - (I’m not condoning going over what you know is your GCVWR)

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by Gizmopilot

Do you plan on towing with your trailer loaded to the max of its 10,995lbs?

The empty weight is listed as 8620 - you don’t have to tow with full water etc.

Depending on how you ordered it the empty weight will vary typically higher.

You are obviously close on your weights for this trailer.

I’m curious how they will determine your GCVWR - I don’t believe it is on the door jamb - only mvwr and the axle ratings, not tow ratings?

I know on the fords it is a royal PIA to figure out - look at the towing guide, then figure out what options have been installed(ie towing, vs max tow, just a hitch), wheels, gearing, engines, box lengths, 4x4, etc.

So as long as you don’t go over any of the ratings on the stickers you should be legal from a traffic stop perspective - if it was investigated in court that is a different issue, such as because of an accident - (I’m not condoning going over what you know is your GCVWR)

I expect the trailer to weigh about 9200# empty, based on others I've seen. I don't know how often I'll be filling the water tank, because I'm a first timer, but if I do, it's 400#. So with a full tank of water and 1000# of everything else, that's 10,600, about 400 under trailer GVWR. So at 21%(estimated pin weight) of 10,600, I'll be slightly below my remaining payload on the truck, which now stands at 2300#. Any weight I can save by not carrying water or less cargo will be gravy.

So I'm confident that I will be good on all weights, including combined truck and trailer weights, according to Ford. If I got a big ol' generator or something, I will recalculate.

My only remaining thing is that a cop might disregard my actual weight, and go by the combined weight ratings - but most people say that is not a problem in any state for RV'ers.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Has anyone gotten a ticket for being over on their GCWR? (Gross combination weight rating)
I've been googling, and I've read that some police use the GVWR of the truck, and add it to the GVWR of the trailer, against the listed GCWR of the truck.

I'm a police officer in Maryland. There is no charge driving over the GVWR of a truck. The only traffic violation for a non commercial vehicle is driving over your registered weight. I'll give you an example. I had a 2010 Tundra with a GVWR of 7200 lbs. Maryland has a weight glass of under 7000 lbs , or 7000-10000 lbs. If I registered my Tundra for 7000 lbs, I would "lose" 200 lbs of payload on a truck that already has a low payload. For another $20 a year I bumped up to 10000 lbs registration. That meant that LEGALLY the combined weight of my 4 tires could be up to 10,000 lbs, even though that meant being 2800 lbs over the sticker weight.


I believe most states follow a similar registration process. You pay for a certain weight class. As long as your 4 tire weights are underneath that paid registration weight, you are legal. I could register a Ford Focus to 14,000 lbs and there is nothing that I could be ticketed for. My frame would brake and the suspension would fail... but it would be well within my paid registration rating.


Now... when you get into potential trouble is the CIVIL law arena. When you are 2000 lbs over the manufacturers rating and get into a wreck, you are going to potentially have to defend the argument that your vehicle was unsafe. But that doesn't involve and traffic tickets.

[norty1]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Has anyone gotten a ticket for being over on their GCWR? (Gross combination weight rating)
So in my case, with an F250 (10,000#) and a Jayco 28.5RSTS, (10,995#) = 19,995#.
That puts me over my 19,500 GCWR....

Would appreciate knowing if anyone has run into this.

Closer to 1500 lbs over.

[Gizmopilot]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

I expect the trailer to weigh about 9200# empty, based on others I've seen. I don't know how often I'll be filling the water tank, because I'm a first timer, but if I do, it's 400#. So with a full tank of water and 1000# of everything else, that's 10,600, about 400 under trailer GVWR. So at 21%(estimated pin weight) of 10,600, I'll be slightly below my remaining payload on the truck, which now stands at 2300#. Any weight I can save by not carrying water or less cargo will be gravy.

So I'm confident that I will be good on all weights, including combined truck and trailer weights, according to Ford. If I got a big ol' generator or something, I will recalculate.

My only remaining thing is that a cop might disregard my actual weight, and go by the combined weight ratings - but most people say that is not a problem in any state for RV'ers.

Next time you pull over a NY registered vehicle check out the registration - My F150 is listed as 4758 on my NY registration, but I weighed it right off the delivery truck w dealer plates and full fuel at about 5000 - So it must be the empty weight not including even fuel or passenger.

It is a wonder we all don’t get in trouble every time we cross state lines ; ).

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Now... when you get into potential trouble is the CIVIL law arena. When you are 2000 lbs over the manufacturers rating and get into a wreck, you are going to potentially have to defend the argument that your vehicle was unsafe. But that doesn't involve and traffic tickets.

And I have a cousin who is a retired insurance adjuster and he said 99.9% of the time that is also a mute point.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by norty1

Closer to 1500 lbs over.

Yes, just hooking it up empty it's 1495# over.- IF the law says it's so.

But Ford says it's actual combined weight, so I'll go with that.

[Gizmopilot]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

I expect the trailer to weigh about 9200# empty, based on others I've seen. I don't know how often I'll be filling the water tank, because I'm a first timer, but if I do, it's 400#. So with a full tank of water and 1000# of everything else, that's 10,600, about 400 under trailer GVWR. So at 21%(estimated pin weight) of 10,600, I'll be slightly below my remaining payload on the truck, which now stands at 2300#. Any weight I can save by not carrying water or less cargo will be gravy.

So I'm confident that I will be good on all weights, including combined truck and trailer weights, according to Ford. If I got a big ol' generator or something, I will recalculate.

My only remaining thing is that a cop might disregard my actual weight, and go by the combined weight ratings - but most people say that is not a problem in any state for RV'ers.

Did you find your GCWR on your door Jamb sticker?

I can’t locate mine -(I could be blind) I still would not recommend towing over yours - they would have bumped up the rating if it would have passed the J2807 standard

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by Gizmopilot

Did you find your GCWR on your door Jamb sticker?

I can’t locate mine -(I could be blind) I still would not recommend towing over yours - they would have bumped up the rating if it would have passed the J2807 standard

For Ford, you can find this number and much more in the "RV & Trailer Towing Guide" They put them out for each year model. Here- https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/

And yes, I agree- I will not be towing above any of the weights. That's why I'm trying to learn all this stuff now.

[Gizmopilot]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Yes, just hooking it up empty it's 1495# over.- IF the law says it's so.

But Ford says it's actual combined weight, so I'll go with that.

What is the empty weight of your truck? I’m guessing about 7700-7800lbs?

19500-9200(empty trailer weight)= 10300 left over for your trucks MVWR.

King pin weight subtracts from your payload not your GCVWR.

I would look into putting your new generator on the trailers receiver - That is what I’ve done

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by Gizmopilot

What is the empty weight of your truck? I’m guessing about 7700-7800lbs?

19500-9200(empty trailer weight)= 10300 left over for your trucks MVWR.

King pin weight subtracts from your payload not your GCVWR.

I would look into putting your new generator on the trailers receiver - That is what I’ve done

Yes, with ACTUAL weights, I'm way good. The original question was about the printed weight RATINGS. On other blogs, folks say the police will just look at the 2 stickers, add them together and declare you over.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by spoon059

I'm a police officer in Maryland. There is no charge driving over the GVWR of a truck. The only traffic violation for a non commercial vehicle is driving over your registered weight. I'll give you an example. I had a 2010 Tundra with a GVWR of 7200 lbs. Maryland has a weight glass of under 7000 lbs , or 7000-10000 lbs. If I registered my Tundra for 7000 lbs, I would "lose" 200 lbs of payload on a truck that already has a low payload. For another $20 a year I bumped up to 10000 lbs registration. That meant that LEGALLY the combined weight of my 4 tires could be up to 10,000 lbs, even though that meant being 2800 lbs over the sticker weight.


I believe most states follow a similar registration process. You pay for a certain weight class. As long as your 4 tire weights are underneath that paid registration weight, you are legal. I could register a Ford Focus to 14,000 lbs and there is nothing that I could be ticketed for. My frame would brake and the suspension would fail... but it would be well within my paid registration rating.


Now... when you get into potential trouble is the CIVIL law arena. When you are 2000 lbs over the manufacturers rating and get into a wreck, you are going to potentially have to defend the argument that your vehicle was unsafe. But that doesn't involve and traffic tickets.

Thanks. That's good information from someone who does this for a living. That was my main concern, getting a ticket for the combined RATED weight of the truck and trailer v. the ACTUAL weight.

[Rmgrose]

You Tube channel I ran across tonight that goes over some commercial driving information in Indiana

https://youtu.be/1VlEU6-4YoY

[PistonSlap]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Thanks. That's good information from someone who does this for a living. That was my main concern, getting a ticket for the combined RATED weight of the truck and trailer v. the ACTUAL weight.

I talked to a Deputy today at work and he said the same thing here in Idaho.

[2edgesword]

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

Sorry about that- Yes- if you add my truck and trailer GVWR together you get 20,995.
My truck GCWR is 19,500.
So if a cop only looks at the stickers and not the actual weights, I will be considered over on my GCWR, even empty. (If that ever even happens in real life)

You're a good sport.

I for one can't understand how it would be legal to assume the truck and trailer are both maxed out and justify giving you a ticket. That would seem to violate the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. I'm assuming your truck can hit 90mph. Do you get a ticket assuming because the truck can reach that speed that you're guilt of speeding?

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by 2edgesword

You're a good sport.

I for one can't understand how it would be legal to assume the truck and trailer are both maxed out and justify giving you a ticket. That would seem to violate the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. I'm assuming your truck can hit 90mph. Do you get a ticket assuming because the truck can reach that speed that you're guilt of speeding?

Yes, and that's the argument some other folks have made on this topic in different blogs. I'll see if I can find an actual law that says this. So far, I haven't, and am ready to start worrying about other things, like blowouts or something.

[bono]

I guess one of the reasons is that the tow specs are only manufacturer recommendations. They are not supported by any law or industry standards. 99.9% of people do not understand this and getting crazy about being 200 lbs over the payload limit.

Originally Posted by Grumpy

And I have a cousin who is a retired insurance adjuster and he said 99.9% of the time that is also a mute point.