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Old 06-17-2018, 01:28 PM   #1
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GVWR = 6750... TV Max towing capacity = 7716. Good to go?

We are looking at the 2018 Jayfeather 25BH. According to the website the GVWR is 6750. According to google, our tow vehicle (2008 Range Rover supercharged) has a max towing capacity of 7716.

Sooo having a 1000lb “buffer”.... would you go with it or consider a different tow vehicle?

(Also, unless it’s an emergency, we always tow with empty tanks.)
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:55 PM   #2
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How does payload capacity stack up? Your vehicle should have a sticker in the door noting that. Tongue weight of a 25bh will be around 1,000lb including your weight distributing hitch. Anything left over will be available for passengers and cargo in your vehicle.

As most will mention, there is a difference between being in spec and being safe. Range rover has a short wheelbase which will affect how comfortable you feel while towing.

I would personally probably keep it at 80% or less of your towing capacity.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:01 PM   #3
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Looking at the specs for that year Range Rover I would say a big NO, payload is only 992 pounds, as sasaki said your tongue weight is probably near 1000 pounds, then add passengers, luggage, what ever else you put inside and you are way over.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:04 PM   #4
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Payload & TV wheelbase specs are also a consideration in addition to towing capacity.

We had a 2007 Nissan Titan crewcab (9000 lb factory towing capacity) and opted for the JayFeather 23bhm which was the smallest TT compared to the other JayCo’s when we were shopping.

Even at that size, we experienced the trailer pushing the truck around in crosswind and the occasional semi passing us.

From our experience we have gone to the Titan XD for our needs. Best of Luck to you with your decision.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:56 AM   #5
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I have learned in life that running anything in the upper 80% range of its performance ability. Either shortens its life span. Or creates a safety issue in the long run. We just traded up from a F150 Super Crew 5.0 to a F250 for this same reason. Our TT is a 2017 Jayco 265RLSW with a weight of 6052lbs and a tongue weight of right at 600lbs. Load it and you are looking at closer to 6800 to 7000 lbs add 40gal of water in the fresh water tank? And maybe 7200 to 7600 lbs. that's just 2000 lbs under max....sounds like a lot....but it wasn't By the time you load up the TV to travel. And a Land Rover is a great vehicle however a bit short IMO. To tow that big of trailer. There are those who will defend what ever they use to tow with...and that's fine. For me ...my setup would do it here in Illinois...but it wasn't comfortable to drive. Just didn't feel comfortable. Aired my tires up to 50lbs...good WDH .... just wasn't for me. And we bought this to relax. Things are night and day different now with our new TV. Do your home work diligently .
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:07 PM   #6
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I agree with 12ptd.... it's one thing to be a few pounds over weight with a 1ton truck vs a few pounds over with a light not really built for towing vehicle. With a range rover (again I love the truck sounds nice) but i wouldn't go over about 80% of your GVWR that's passenger, luggage, trailer tongue and hitch. I would bet loaded up with gas and passengers and a few bags your probably already at 80% of your gvwr. All manufacturers way miss leading on tow abilities of vehicles. Best thing to do is fill up your rig with gas and your normal passengers and go to a CAT scale (@ a truck stop) and get a good weight on your rig. Then look at your GVWR sticker in drives door frame. Subtract your weight from the sticker weight that number is the MAX tongue weight you can pull. But I would reduce your number by at least 20% and that would be what I would shoot for. Also when you buy a trailer the tongue weight they give is no propane, no stuff in the trailer. So if it's got 2- 30 lb tanks that's an extra 60 to 70 lbs in propane alone. And most travel trailers it loaded right will take about 20% of what you put in it in the tongue weight. That said a 500lb tongue dry weight can be pushing the 800 to a 1000lb range really fast. Good luck hope this helps.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:46 PM   #7
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Thanks for the insight!

Looks like we are stuck with our hybrid TT until we get a different TV
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:26 PM   #8
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Thanks for the insight!

Looks like we are stuck with our hybrid TT until we get a different TV
Everybody looks at the max towing when looking at vehicles. After all manufacturers love to promote this. But as others have pointed out you will run out of cargo weight (with tongue weight) long before running out of towing capacity....
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:37 AM   #9
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Thanks for the insight! Looks like we are stuck with our hybrid TT until we get a different TV
Just for curiosity, run only your TV across a CAT scale ($9) under loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, etc.) and see how much it weighs.

Subtract the CAT scale weight from your TV's posted GVWR......, remaining weight is your "actual available" payload capacity. Should you up-date your TV in the future do the same thing with it, minimizes the guesswork

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Old 07-02-2018, 03:12 PM   #10
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OP, I encourage you to do a better research than asking on this forum. I suggest you also go to airstream forums, where you would meet more people towing large trailers with SUVs. A standard response is that you need truck (recommended 3/4 ton or bigger) to tow anything larger than a pop-up trailer.

I encourage you to read my post

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...-x5-53561.html

It is already almost two years since I started towing 28DSBH with BMW X5 and it is fantastic combo. Super stable with the trailer, convenient and pleasure to drive without the trailer.

I do not even bother to comment on the posts like... Tongue weight of a 25bh will be around 1,000lb...

Armchair engineers will always kill such ideas. Do not be discouraged. At least do your research.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
Just for curiosity, run only your TV across a CAT scale ($9) under loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, etc.) and see how much it weighs.

Subtract the CAT scale weight from your TV's posted GVWR......, remaining weight is your "actual available" payload capacity. Should you up-date your TV in the future do the same thing with it, minimizes the guesswork

Bob
This is very good advice..
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:40 AM   #12
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OP, I encourage you to do a better research than asking on this forum. I suggest you also go to airstream forums, where you would meet more people towing large trailers with SUVs. A standard response is that you need truck (recommended 3/4 ton or bigger) to tow anything larger than a pop-up trailer.

I encourage you to read my post

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...-x5-53561.html

It is already almost two years since I started towing 28DSBH with BMW X5 and it is fantastic combo. Super stable with the trailer, convenient and pleasure to drive without the trailer.

I do not even bother to comment on the posts like... Tongue weight of a 25bh will be around 1,000lb...

Armchair engineers will always kill such ideas. Do not be discouraged. At least do your research.
Thanks for the insight! I definitely plan on digging further.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:58 AM   #13
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OP, I encourage you to do a better research than asking on this forum. I suggest you also go to airstream forums, where you would meet more people towing large trailers with SUVs. A standard response is that you need truck (recommended 3/4 ton or bigger) to tow anything larger than a pop-up trailer.

I encourage you to read my post

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...-x5-53561.html

It is already almost two years since I started towing 28DSBH with BMW X5 and it is fantastic combo. Super stable with the trailer, convenient and pleasure to drive without the trailer.

I do not even bother to comment on the posts like... Tongue weight of a 25bh will be around 1,000lb...

Armchair engineers will always kill such ideas. Do not be discouraged. At least do your research.
The vehicle and trailer specifications are what they are. There are two issues involved in this discussion. Does the tow combination fall within the maximum specifications established by the manufacturer? The answer to that question is pretty straight forward. The second question is more subjective. How comfortable is it towing with that combination under all of the situations you might find yourself in while towing (climate, road surface/grade, etc.)?

The answers given regarding specifications are usually well researched and thought out. As far as the subjective issues, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:11 AM   #14
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The vehicle and trailer specifications are what they are. There are two issues involved in this discussion. Does the tow combination fall within the maximum specifications established by the manufacturer? The answer to that question is pretty straight forward.
No, actually, it is not straightforward. But yes, if I want this to fall within the maximum specs of the tow vehicle I can do it (moving spare tire from the car to the trailer, having two adults plus two kids in the car instead of three adults and two kids, carefully loading trailer to keep the TW around 800-850 lbs, etc.).

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The second question is more subjective. How comfortable is it towing with that combination under all of the situations you might find yourself in while towing (climate, road surface/grade, etc.)?

The answers given regarding specifications are usually well researched and thought out. As far as the subjective issues, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I towed the trailer through Rockies in 110F heat. I was not the first to reach the hill, but there was no problem with it. Reading about "white knuckles" some truck owners have with their combinations, I can only prize myself for the choice. I have never experienced any white knuckle moment.

My combo is not for everyone. I need to pack the trailer carefully, etc. BUT not everyone wants to drive a truck, not everyone takes a lot of stuff for camping. This is just an alternative...
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:29 AM   #15
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No, actually, it is not straightforward. But yes, if I want this to fall within the maximum specs of the tow vehicle I can do it (moving spare tire from the car to the trailer, having two adults plus two kids in the car instead of three adults and two kids, carefully loading trailer to keep the TW around 800-850 lbs, etc.).
Actually the numbers are what they are for everyone. You add a pound of load in New York or a pound of load in California it's still a pound of load (slight variation in gravitation force based on elevation aside). If the maximum combine gross weight limit is 8,000 lbs in NY it's 8,000 lbs in CA.

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I towed the trailer through Rockies in 110F heat. I was not the first to reach the hill, but there was no problem with it. Reading about "white knuckles" some truck owners have with their combinations, I can only prize myself for the choice. I have never experienced any white knuckle moment.

My combo is not for everyone. I need to pack the trailer carefully, etc. BUT not everyone wants to drive a truck, not everyone takes a lot of stuff for camping. This is just an alternative...
What were your transmission temperatures on that climb when the ambient temperature was 110F? Do you know what the maximum transmission temperatures are for your transmission? What rpms were you running on the steepest inclines? Were you able to maintain highway speeds throughout the climb?

The white knuckle experience can be induced or non-existent based on ignorance or knowledge or it can be based on totally subjective factors (someone doesn't like hearing the engine racing even if the racing isn't doing any immediate damage).

My point is the manufacturers base maximum numbers on testing, knowing the limits and life expectancy of the product with safety, liability and reputation in mind. They expect the consumer is going to abide by those numbers and in many cases the warranty becomes invalid if those numbers are exceeding and something bad happens.

The subjective issues are subjective. What you describe as an awesome towing experience might be considered a poor towing experience by others based on the expectations they have when towing. To each his own. No fault, no foul.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:51 PM   #16
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I am not going to engage into this discussion. I am well aware of the limits of my tow vehicle, I know how it's tested in relation to towing, etc. I just wanted to let OP that there are things he should research further.

Happy camping!
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:18 PM   #17
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I tend to agree with bono. Everyone should do their due diligence and understand all the aspects of their numbers. Too often people are given the advice to hit the cat scales but they never (rarely) come back to post those weights. Then we all end up saying to get a dually when we don’t have all the information. It usually ends up as “you’ll probably be over on (xxxxx), so get a bigger TV” or get the proper TV for the job, or you need at least 3/4 ton but you might as well get the one ton for the added capacity and possible trailer upgrade. You know the drill. We’ve all seen it plenty of times.

I drive a dually but I could probably be driving a SRW. I’m just too lazy to worry about how I load things, or what I shouldn’t pack, etc. I just load her up and go.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:10 PM   #18
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I am not going to engage into this discussion. I am well aware of the limits of my tow vehicle, I know how it's tested in relation to towing, etc. I just wanted to let OP that there are things he should research further.

Happy camping!
What is the maximum transmission temperature for you TV and what were the highest temperatures you reach during that 110F climb?

The point is the manufacturers go expend the time and expense of establishing the limits for safety, reliability and liability reasons. If you exceed those numbers you compromise to some extend one or all of those issues.

Pushing a vehicle to those limits is going to impact reliability. This is one of the reason why the suggestion regarding keeping the weight of the trailer at less than 80% of the maximum for the vehicle is suggested. There are also safety issues involved. The heavier the trailer the longer it's going to take to stop it if it needs to be stopped quickly. That extra 10 feet it takes to stop may be the difference between driving away or calling an ambulance and a wrecker.

As far as the responsibility of each individual to do their homework, of course that's true. But the forum and hearing from knowledgeable individuals can be one step in that process.

Yes, you can go strictly by the numbers published by the manufacturers and take the combination to the ultimate limit. But when you do that you are sacrificing some level of safety, some degree of reliability and minimize the margin of error if/when circumstances (weight, speed, temperature, altitude, road conditions, etc.) stack up against you.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:08 PM   #19
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Why should someone feel the need to only use 80% when the manufacturers spend so much time and energy determining what is the safe limit of a vehicle’s tow capacity? I’m a simple guy but if Ford says I can tow (xxx) pounds then that’s what I expect to be able to tow, not 80% of (xxx). They certainly have a safety margin built in for simple minds like me who may want to use my vehicle to it’s full extent and or capacity.

Where does this 80% suggestion come from? Why not 50%, 60, 70, or 90%. Again, I’m just a simple guy that believes the engineers and lawyers make these limits with a built in safety factor so that people who tow at or near the limit can’t come back and blame the manufacturer for not being able to do so.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:57 PM   #20
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Since you keeping asking... transmission temp was max at 220F / coolant temp 230F / oil temp 250F. All the temps were well within the specs.

I am not fan of FUD. So I will not comment on any hypothetical safety issues. Just a word on stopping the trailer - larger trailers have their brakes, correct? My car has better/ more efficient brakes than ANY truck on the market. Who should be concerned about extra 10 feet to stop?


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What is the maximum transmission temperature for you TV and what were the highest temperatures you reach during that 110F climb?

The point is the manufacturers go expend the time and expense of establishing the limits for safety, reliability and liability reasons. If you exceed those numbers you compromise to some extend one or all of those issues.

Pushing a vehicle to those limits is going to impact reliability. This is one of the reason why the suggestion regarding keeping the weight of the trailer at less than 80% of the maximum for the vehicle is suggested. There are also safety issues involved. The heavier the trailer the longer it's going to take to stop it if it needs to be stopped quickly. That extra 10 feet it takes to stop may be the difference between driving away or calling an ambulance and a wrecker.

As far as the responsibility of each individual to do their homework, of course that's true. But the forum and hearing from knowledgeable individuals can be one step in that process.

Yes, you can go strictly by the numbers published by the manufacturers and take the combination to the ultimate limit. But when you do that you are sacrificing some level of safety, some degree of reliability and minimize the margin of error if/when circumstances (weight, speed, temperature, altitude, road conditions, etc.) stack up against you.
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