Half Ton Payload Strikes Again

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

snip....... Would it help to put some things in the trailer (behind its axles)?........snip

It may take weight off the tongue, all depends on the weight of the cargo being moved. Also, keep in mind that if you do move weight to the rear of the TT you will still want to confirm that your loaded tongue weight falls within the 10% to 15% of the TT's gross weight. Don't want to mistakenly remove weight from the tongue that drops you below the 10% minimum.

Bob

[Dropnaduece]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

X2 Our powertrain is more than ample. It is the GVWR and 1,613 payload that minimizes our capacity.

True dat...that's why I can never go bigger but there are so many who have the 28DSBH Jay feathers and WH's it blows me away. Even let's say weight is good the shear size of that box compared to the truck seems crazy to me.

[Nukeneck]

With all the payload capacity talk with the F-150, I have a question. What is the actuall difference in the F-150 with standard payload and one with heavy duty payload. Is it the springs, gears, bearings, the entire rear end, axles? What is done to the Foed to give it HD payload rating?

[Dropnaduece]

Originally Posted by Nukeneck

With all the payload capacity talk with the F-150, I have a question. What is the actuall difference in the F-150 with standard payload and one with heavy duty payload. Is it the springs, gears, bearings, the entire rear end, axles? What is done to the Foed to give it HD payload rating?

What everybody has is the Max Tow Package which comes with a class IV hitch with a tongue weight rating of 1200lbs, trailer brake controller, and small tranny radiator. Much better than just a basic tow package which most F-150 work trucks only have. Then there is the Heavy Duty Payload Package HDPP which almost nobody has except a small population of peeps. They didn't make these trucks and just ship them out to hundreds of dealers. I tried to order one but they said I couldn't till a certain date so I had to do a search within a 500 miles of my location to find the truck that have that was a Lariat with the payload I wanted, rear end, 36 gallon tank, max tow, and tow mirrors with a 156.8" wheel base. Apparently this package is not a standard truck on the lot. You can find plenty of trucks similar but most come with the I think is the 145" wheel base. Also there is a butt load of XLT's because of the price point. Anyways from what I know the HDPP comes equipped just like my truck but with an extra spring, bigger axle, and a 7 lug tire with light truck tires. Could be more but this is what the dealer told me. Also this truck has been known to be called the "unicorn truck" just because they didn't produce very many of them. The reason I think they even make them is so they can advertise the payload so people think that Ford is a monster truck but unfortunately they make over 50 different variations of the Ford model it can get nauseating just thinking about it. For Ford it's a marketing masterpiece to be able to say it has up to 3,000+lbs of payload. But depending on the options and model you can have a payload of 1400-1900 on most trucks. Of course this is dependent if you have a 2 wheel drive 2 door to the 4 wheel drive SCREW. Options kill payload...just like mine having a full sunroof weighs a heck of a lot more than a basic sunroof or none at all. It looks cool but I wish I didn't have one just to have less weight. I also went with a soft cover instead of a hardcover. A pound here and a pound there adds up fast. Just putting on the RAS suspension kit adds 40lbs but helps out a lot with the body roll, axle wrap, and butt sagging plus towing is so much better for the bouncy feel you get on crappy roads. I also put BFGoodrich KO2's on and it works great with the squishy shoes I had before although it towed good enough without them because now I get crappier gas mileage. Lost st lest 2-3 gallons a mile from the tires and from puck lift. Oh well looks more like a truck

Anyways if you find a HDPP truck buy it because you won't see another one...lol. I'm thinking the evolution of the 1/2 ton will push out the 250 even more to the point you will have a choice of the 150 or the 350 because if they go with a diesel 150 like they say they are in 2018 then it will be a beast of a 1/2 ton. 2017 is the first year they are making real nice 250's because this model has been more of a work truck with crappy interior and little to know options cause you don't need it to haul a trailer for landscaping.

There are 2 1/2 tons IMO that are the beasts of there class one is the Ecoboost 150 and the Nissan diesel Titan. The Titan and 150 are the only 2 trucks right now with a towing capacity of up to 12,000 lbs. Most 1/2 tons range from 7500-9800 not even breaking the 10k mark. Ford is pushing the limits on the 1/2 ton making all other manufacturers to catch up and the Titan did that in 2016. I would actually buy the Nissan if I could do it all over again but what pushed me to buy a Ford was the amazing amount of leg room in the backseat. I'm not in love with any particular brand but leg space is what I wanted for my 6' son. I can fit my 2 boys and 80lb lab in the backseat with plenty of room to spare. I even was considering a 350 but didn't pull the trigger just because of the backseat. Also I didn't have the knowledge I know now about payload and TW when I bought my 1/2 ton. This forum and buying my first trailer has caused me to become an expert in GAWR,CCC,curb weight,GVW,GVWR, etc. something I knew nothing about until I bought the trailer and truck. I just trusted the dealers and that was the biggest mistake I will never make again. Otherwise I would of bought the 350 and sacrificed the backseat space. Also with a 350 I could of put a topper on without hesitation for the dog. Of course they made the 2017 350 more roomier in the backseat making me wish I waited one more year but just like all depreciating toys we buy they always get better and better. Lol

Ok I talk to much so I'm going to end with bring on the sunshine cause I'm ready to go camping because I miss staring up at the stars.

[kampfirekid]

Dropinaduece, thanks for the post. I agree with your process and thoughts on finding a happy medium. My family is heavy. Not fat, but heavy. I'm 6'-5" and 250#, and my son is 6'-4" and 185. I value my eyesight, so I'll pass on the DW and DD weights. I have a 125# fiberglass lid in the truck, which I may remove to help. The only other weights in the truck not figured by Ford is the Husky floor liners, a Weathertech bed liner, a snow brush, and my 2x6 bed partition. That I would think could be worth 100#. So, the 590# I have left now, the plus 125# lid, plus 100# in mats, liners, 2x6 and snowbrush, is 815# if old school math still works.


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[Atlee]

One addendum to your post. You mentioned the 7 lug rims on HDP trucks. That is correct up through the 2014 model. Beginning in 2015, Ford dropped back to 6 lugs even for the HDP trucks.

IIRC, Ford didn't make any HD trucks in the 2015 model year. I guess there was too much demand and not enough supply of the new aluminum bodied trucks.

I have a HD F150. Bought it in August of 2014. By that time, Ford had stopped making the 2014 and was in the process of retooling for the all new aluminum bodied 2015 trucks, so I couldn't order one.

You are correct HD trucks are scarce as hen's teeth and/or unicorns. I was only going to trade if my dealer could find a HD model. There were none in Virginia. My dealer found 4 up in PA. The dealership worked out a deal and brought one home for me.

But it is a monster to park and turn. As you know, the HD's, at least in 2014 only came in the long wheel base trucks. This means in std cab, and SCAB trucks, the bed size is 8 ft. For the SCREW trucks, the bed is 6.5'. My Supercab with 8' box is the longest wheel base trucks that Ford makes in F150. I do understand the F350 can be bought with a Supercrew cab and 8' box.

My payload is just 2286#, which is roughly 800# more than my old regular 2005 truck. Mine is a XLT model, but has 4 wheel drive. The 4 wheel drive is a several hundred pound penalty.

The OEM tires are pretty heavy. They're LT245/75R17 LRE Goodyear's.

Originally Posted by Dropnaduece

What everybody has is the Max Tow Package which comes with a class IV hitch with a tongue weight rating of 1200lbs, trailer brake controller, and small tranny radiator. Much better than just a basic tow package which most F-150 work trucks only have. Then there is the Heavy Duty Payload Package HDPP which almost nobody has except a small population of peeps. They didn't make these trucks and just ship them out to hundreds of dealers. I tried to order one but they said I couldn't till a certain date so I had to do a search within a 500 miles of my location to find the truck that have that was a Lariat with the payload I wanted, rear end, 36 gallon tank, max tow, and tow mirrors with a 156.8" wheel base. Apparently this package is not a standard truck on the lot. You can find plenty of trucks similar but most come with the I think is the 145" wheel base. Also there is a butt load of XLT's because of the price point. Anyways from what I know the HDPP comes equipped just like my truck but with an extra spring, bigger axle, and a 7 lug tire with light truck tires. Could be more but this is what the dealer told me. Also this truck has been known to be called the "unicorn truck" just because they didn't produce very many of them. The reason I think they even make them is so they can advertise the payload so people think that Ford is a monster truck but unfortunately they make over 50 different variations of the Ford model it can get nauseating just thinking about it. For Ford it's a marketing masterpiece to be able to say it has up to 3,000+lbs of payload. But depending on the options and model you can have a payload of 1400-1900 on most trucks. Of course this is dependent if you have a 2 wheel drive 2 door to the 4 wheel drive SCREW. Options kill payload...just like mine having a full sunroof weighs a heck of a lot more than a basic sunroof or none at all. It looks cool but I wish I didn't have one just to have less weight. I also went with a soft cover instead of a hardcover. A pound here and a pound there adds up fast. Just putting on the RAS suspension kit adds 40lbs but helps out a lot with the body roll, axle wrap, and butt sagging plus towing is so much better for the bouncy feel you get on crappy roads. I also put BFGoodrich KO2's on and it works great with the squishy shoes I had before although it towed good enough without them because now I get crappier gas mileage. Lost st lest 2-3 gallons a mile from the tires and from puck lift. Oh well looks more like a truck

Anyways if you find a HDPP truck buy it because you won't see another one...lol. I'm thinking the evolution of the 1/2 ton will push out the 250 even more to the point you will have a choice of the 150 or the 350 because if they go with a diesel 150 like they say they are in 2018 then it will be a beast of a 1/2 ton. 2017 is the first year they are making real nice 250's because this model has been more of a work truck with crappy interior and little to know options cause you don't need it to haul a trailer for landscaping.

There are 2 1/2 tons IMO that are the beasts of there class one is the Ecoboost 150 and the Nissan diesel Titan. The Titan and 150 are the only 2 trucks right now with a towing capacity of up to 12,000 lbs. Most 1/2 tons range from 7500-9800 not even breaking the 10k mark. Ford is pushing the limits on the 1/2 ton making all other manufacturers to catch up and the Titan did that in 2016. I would actually buy the Nissan if I could do it all over again but what pushed me to buy a Ford was the amazing amount of leg room in the backseat. I'm not in love with any particular brand but leg space is what I wanted for my 6' son. I can fit my 2 boys and 80lb lab in the backseat with plenty of room to spare. I even was considering a 350 but didn't pull the trigger just because of the backseat. Also I didn't have the knowledge I know now about payload and TW when I bought my 1/2 ton. This forum and buying my first trailer has caused me to become an expert in GAWR,CCC,curb weight,GVW,GVWR, etc. something I knew nothing about until I bought the trailer and truck. I just trusted the dealers and that was the biggest mistake I will never make again. Otherwise I would of bought the 350 and sacrificed the backseat space. Also with a 350 I could of put a topper on without hesitation for the dog. Of course they made the 2017 350 more roomier in the backseat making me wish I waited one more year but just like all depreciating toys we buy they always get better and better. Lol

Ok I talk to much so I'm going to end with bring on the sunshine cause I'm ready to go camping because I miss staring up at the stars.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

No disrespect to you, LiftedAWDAstro, but I could not stomach being 1,000# over the GVWR under any circumstances.

No disrespect taken. When we ordered the 28BHBE, I knew we would be over weight but I also knew I had the best hitch possible to tow with so I knew I was going to be perfectly safe on the road. I tow under 65 mph as I don't trust the Ranier tires. I also knew I could trade up to a 3/4 or 1 ton and still afford to go camping. I am trading up for just over $100 a month in payment.

[kampfirekid]

After much deliberation, I think the 200# I have in floor mats, bed mat, 2x6 partition in the bed of the truck, and the Leer fiberglass tonneau, I could lose 75% of the weight. Then, we could jump up to about 750# of remaining payload. At this point, I'd pull a trailer AT or slightly OVER max knowing I'm trading up in a couple years. Sometimes you just gotta weigh the circumstances and exposure. With us, our original plan was to drag a TT about 2,500 to 3,000 miles out west this summer. That I won't do, but for 5-6 times a summer for the next two summers going only a few hundred miles round trip, I have no concerns. I'm in the know. I see so many that don't have a clue dragging time bombs down the interstate. I think if it were a major issue, considering what I see on the road, we'd hear so much more. I'll take the minimal chance being extremely knowledgeable in my payload, and trade up as quickly as possible.


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[Dropnaduece]

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

After much deliberation, I think the 200# I have in floor mats, bed mat, 2x6 partition in the bed of the truck, and the Leer fiberglass tonneau, I could lose 75% of the weight. Then, we could jump up to about 750# of remaining payload. At this point, I'd pull a trailer AT or slightly OVER max knowing I'm trading up in a couple years. Sometimes you just gotta weigh the circumstances and exposure. With us, our original plan was to drag a TT about 2,500 to 3,000 miles out west this summer. That I won't do, but for 5-6 times a summer for the next two summers going only a few hundred miles round trip, I have no concerns. I'm in the know. I see so many that don't have a clue dragging time bombs down the interstate. I think if it were a major issue, considering what I see on the road, we'd hear so much more. I'll take the minimal chance being extremely knowledgeable in my payload, and trade up as quickly as possible.


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Yup if your hunting for available payload then it looks like you found some. It all adds up so fast. That is why I have a soft bed cover and weather tech floor mats. The rubber ones I had in my previous truck were thick and so heavy. The most I travel is 3-500 miles round trip 7-8 times a year and some trips within an hour or two from my house for weekend getaways. You should be fine unless you plan on touring the USA. I wanted to do a 3000 mile trip around the west coast and then up through the Grand Canyon heading back up through Utah on the way back home to WA. I know my truck would do just fine but I'm sure it will take its toll on the drive train so decided against doing it. When I'm a little older and the time is right I will get a bigger truck and make a lot trips.

Good luck and have a great summer.

[kampfirekid]

I had a Leer Trilogy flip lid, and it would now do bad in the certain conditions, it would hold water. I made a deal for peanuts to get the fiberglass. Now, i wish I would have opted for a Bakflip.
Had I known I'd be this close, I'd have made other accessory choices. Frankly, I trade off at about 85,000 miles, so I only run trucks about 2-1/2 to 3 years, so this one is at 10 months, and the time is dragging.
I'm in a quandary as to whether we should get the trailer we want (within reason) and sweat it out while hauling it, or stay lighter and smaller with slightly less storage that is closer to the limits. The weight of the trailer isn't the issue. The EcoBoost has more than enough grunt. It's the tongue weight I have my concerns with.


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[TednWV]

What did people do back in the old days to increase payload capacity? They added extra leaf springs.

Still works on today's trucks.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by TednWV

What did people do back in the old days to increase payload capacity? They added extra leaf springs.

Still works on today's trucks.

Only problem with that is that it doesn't address things like brakes, cooling, etc. If the original didn't have those advantages, adding springs only leads to bigger problems down the road.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TednWV

What did people do back in the old days to increase payload capacity? They added extra leaf springs. Still works on today's trucks.

This is true...., but today's trucks will see an axle component(s) upgrade along with that added leaf spring......, at least with the GM 2500HD and 3500HD (has added leaf).

Bob

[TednWV]

Originally Posted by RPreeb

Only problem with that is that it doesn't address things like brakes, cooling, etc. If the original didn't have those advantages, adding springs only leads to bigger problems down the road.

True!

[bansai]

Originally Posted by TednWV

What did people do back in the old days to increase payload capacity? They added extra leaf springs.

Still works on today's trucks.

The scale doesn't lie.

Payload purists (like the governement and others that like to know what the number really is) would suggest that adding weight to your truck (via additional springs) actually reduces your available payload. It doesn't change your GVWR.

[TednWV]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

This is true...., but today's trucks will see an axle component(s) upgrade along with that added leaf spring......, at least with the GM 2500HD and 3500HD (has added leaf).

Bob

Sorry. I didn't follow what you were saying? "todays trucks will see an axle component(s) upgrade"?

A friend of mine has a 2016 F250. Wanted to trade for a 2016 F350 because of the payload capacity. Called around and found a guy that installs leaf springs for a living. He said he has installed 1 or 2 extra leafs in all the newer trucks to increase the payload. My friend purchased one extra beafier leaf for each side and is very happy with the results.

But like RPreeb said, when you add extra leafs to increase payload, you really should upgrade brakes and everything else.

[bansai]

Originally Posted by TednWV

Sorry. I didn't follow what you were saying? "todays trucks will see an axle component(s) upgrade"?

A friend of mine has a 2016 F250. Wanted to trade for a 2016 F350 because of the payload capacity. Called around and found a guy that installs leaf springs for a living. He said he has installed 1 or 2 extra leafs in all the newer trucks to increase the payload. My friend purchased one extra beafier leaf for each side and is very happy with the results.

But like RPreeb said, when you add extra leafs to increase payload, you really should upgrade brakes and everything else.

This is true with the Ford 250 / 350 comparison. He was talking about GM's offering where the difference is more than that.

If you get the camper package for the 250, you get the exact same axle and spring pack that comes standard with the 350. The camper package just adds the helper spring that the 350 comes standard with.

The reality is someone could home brew themselves a monster truck using an F150 frame, and at the end of the day, they would still have a truck with an 8000 pound GVWR (legally) that now weighs 14,000 lbs and on paper would be 6000+ over payload.

If the legal payload rating doesn't matter, people should do whatever they want with their trucks. I want to know exactly what my payload rating is so when I go to the scale, it means something I guess - i.e. I can calculate what my payload is if / when needed at the scale. More power to everyone that upgrades their trucks with beefier parts. The actual definition of what payload is, and how it's calculated doesn't change as a result. You can only increase payload in a measurable way by reducing the weight.

[kampfirekid]

Originally Posted by TednWV

What did people do back in the old days to increase payload capacity? They added extra leaf springs.

Still works on today's trucks.

Band-Aid it as you like. Exceeding the gross axle rating(s) and covering the load by adding leaf springs does nothing but prematurely wear the bearings and items mentioned not designed for the load. Yes, in moderation is one thing, but the nature is "if you build it..." as well as complacency.


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[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TednWV

Sorry. I didn't follow what you were saying? "todays trucks will see an axle component(s) upgrade"? ......snip

I was referring to axle size increase, etc..

Bob

[Jopopsy]

So in all this back and forth is there some margin of error here?

Like on my rig, its a 14500 GVWR w/ axles that can carry 14600 and tires that can go up to 15000 pounds. 1% over is 145 pounds. I'm probably not going to go out on a limb here and say 145 pounds isn't going to make my wheels fly off and have my driveshaft crumble into pieces.

Although I'm a few hundred pounds under my GVWR after my weigh-in, I'm still looking to unload some items to give me more cushion.