Half Ton Payload Strikes Again

kampfirekid · 03-17-2017, 10:47 PM

So, we decided to weigh the Ol' 2016 F150 Supercrew. The entire family took guesses as we approached the ramp to the scale. Truck empty. Full tank of fuel. Me, the DW, DS, and DD. Pressed the button. Waited a bit. Declined the ramp. Off to the counter for the bright yellow slip. One glance was all it took. So disgusted.

7,050 = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
6,460 = Gross Weight (Actual)
590 = Remaining Payload

The DW can't figure why it's a big deal when so many people we talk to are pulling trailers larger than what we are looking at, with Tahoes, Tundras, and other half ton trucks.

All the figuring, all the questioning of other new half ton owners at the campgrounds, all the research, and all the time on the boards seems a waste now. I knew it'd be close, but there's over 250 pounds hiding somewhere that just doesn't make sense.

While the F350 I had prior made no sense as a daily driver last summer, it makes PERFECT sense now. Ugh.

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Atlee · 03-18-2017, 02:45 AM

And you have found out why some 1/2 ton owners always warn about cargo capacity 1st and foremost when anyone is considering a decent sized trailer.

You are now seeing that a 1/2 ton truck owner will almost invariably run out of carrying capacity long before they run out of "towing" capacity.

I still always keep a very close watch on my F150 CCC even though I have the heavy duty package which boosts my CCC up to 2286#.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

So, we decided to weigh the Ol' 2016 F150 Supercrew. The entire family took guesses as we approached the ramp to the scale. Truck empty. Full tank of fuel. Me, the DW, DS, and DD. Pressed the button. Waited a bit. Declined the ramp. Off to the counter for the bright yellow slip. One glance was all it took. So disgusted.

7,050 = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
6,460 = Gross Weight (Actual)
590 = Remaining Payload

The DW can't figure why it's a big deal when so many people we talk to are pulling trailers larger than what we are looking at, with Tahoes, Tundras, and other half ton trucks.

All the figuring, all the questioning of other new half ton owners at the campgrounds, all the research, and all the time on the boards seems a waste now. I knew it'd be close, but there's over 250 pounds hiding somewhere that just doesn't make sense.

While the F350 I had prior made no sense as a daily driver last summer, it makes PERFECT sense now. Ugh.

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Rustic Eagle · 03-18-2017, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

snip..... all the questioning of other new half ton owners at the campgrounds, all the research, and all the time on the boards seems a waste now.....snip

Unfortunately much of the campground advice and other sources come from those with good intentions, but they have never crossed over a CAT scale which can lead to misinformation.

Good to hear that you went to the CAT scale, and I do understand your disappointed in the results.

Bob

need-a-vacation · 03-18-2017, 04:21 AM

Kamp,

Have any accessories been added to the truck after it rolled off the assembly line: step bars, tonneau cover/ truck topper, push bar, hd floor mats, bed liner, etc? Either dealer installed or by you?

When you state there is over 250lbs "hidden somewhere", is that compared to the yellow payload sticker in the drivers door jamb? If so, how large is the gas tank? The one question I have yet to get answered 100% is if the weight of fuel still needs to be added in to the anticipated payload when comparing to the yellow sticker, or if it's included. We know that the sticker does not include any occupants (even the driver) in the truck. Others have posted the yellow sticker does include fuel, but I have yet to find supporting evidence. I would guess it does, but the question will remain until answered! Lol

Good luck in your quest!!!

LiftedAWDAstro · 03-18-2017, 06:27 AM

I was in the same boat with my Tundra. With the topper and all the "stuff" I carried plus a normal load for camping which consisted of 2 mountain bikes, 1 stacked row of firewood, a small fridge in the bed along with a bunch of RC trucks and parts/tools and just the wife and I, we came in at an even 7,000# at the scale. My GVW is 7100#. My 28BHBE has around 1200# tongue weight so I was quite overloaded. Power wise - no issue pulling! Ran up to 65 mph with cruise set in 4th gear and could accelerate most any hill we ever saw and maintain the speed limit with ease. Being overloaded was a part of the reason I have ordered a new 3/4 ton diesel. In reality, I will probably be at or slightly over my CCC in the diesel.

Jopopsy · 03-18-2017, 06:28 AM

I read these all the time and it really bums me out; this isn't a cheap hobby and to invest/spend so much on either a TV, trailer, or MH and find you can't use it or put anything into it? Very disheartening. Sadly I'm among you; my first big mess up was my X17z - a relatively inexpensive lesson in comparison but still a costly one.

**Crabman** · 03-18-2017, 06:53 AM

That was the problem with my 1500, ok on power and tow rating, not enough payload. That's why I love the little sticker on the 2500 which says 3454 lbs available payload. I know I'm not going to surpass or even approach that number with what I carry and tow.

kampfirekid · 03-18-2017, 08:08 AM

I've lived this before. Back in 2008. One of the only other times I did not drive a diesel Super Duty. This time I planned so I would be knowledgeable on this particular trucks weights. That's why I'm discouraged with being THAT low. I figured it over and over, and I was going to be at about 700#. For what we do, where we go, and how we camp, I could easily play with the 10-15% tongue weight with my Sherline scale and be comfortable for a couple years while I burn up this truck to 100k. Then I'd switch back to a one ton.
I have a lid the mfg. says is 125#. That's figured in. The fuel tank (full) is figured in. I didn't empty the windshield washer reservoir, take out the three quarters and two dimes in the console, or remove the snow brush, but I can't fathom in this upside down. I didn't wash it, and it's really dirty, and I did put a thick coat of wax on it last fall. Just thankful the grille wasn't full of bugs. I'll try changing the oil weight.

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**Crabman** · 03-18-2017, 08:28 AM

I wonder if those scales are always 100% accurate? I mean a few hundred pounds off on a tractor trailer is no biggie but on a pickup it would be.... Just a thought.

repacs0103 · 03-18-2017, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabman

I wonder if those scales are always 100% accurate? I mean a few hundred pounds off on a tractor trailer is no biggie but on a pickup it would be.... Just a thought.

They're pretty accurate- they get tested and certified regularly by state inspectors. Commercial weight tickets are often written by the pound and most carriers load to within a few hundred pounds.

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LiftedAWDAstro · 03-18-2017, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

I'll try changing the oil weight.

That's funny right there!

ttavasc · 03-18-2017, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabman

I wonder if those scales are always 100% accurate? I mean a few hundred pounds off on a tractor trailer is no biggie but on a pickup it would be.... Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by repacs0103

They're pretty accurate- they get tested and certified regularly by state inspectors. Commercial weight tickets are often written by the pound and most carriers load to within a few hundred pounds.

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I've wondered about this myself. In searching for details I came across the following accuracy specifications for CAT scales:

CAT Scale
(Digital)
Fairbanks Scales
Capacity: 200,000 pounds,
Division: 20 pounds Accuracy: HB 44, Class III L
±20 lb (2,500 lb)
±20 lb (10,000 lb)
±40 lb (20,000 lb)

RPreeb · 03-18-2017, 09:38 AM

I read these threads with interest, but they mostly don't apply to me, despite my F-150 TV. I just don't drag all the extra stuff with me that others can't seem to get along without. I certainly don't take firewood to the forest. I don't carry bicycles camping. I have a 25 pound tonneau cover rather than a 100+ pound topper. Just me and my wife in the truck, and sometimes our 38# pooch.

We pack light, just the food actually needed for the trip, no extras. We don't "stock" the TT with anything much more than salt and pepper. I do travel with a full fresh water tank, but that doesn't really add anything to the tongue, since it sets mostly over the rear axle. I put what I can in the trailer, and try to balance it to keep the tongue weight about the same.

I plan to buy a 60# kayak for fishing and carry it on top of the truck, but I have lots of room to add that and more if I wanted to. I start with 1777 CCC, and that seems to be more than enough for me and my wife. It doesn't hurt to have a TT with a 5500 pound max weight. I think that this is closer to the camper size that the F-150 is really made to pull, despite it's 11,000 pound tow rating.

**Crabman** · 03-18-2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttavasc

I've wondered about this myself. In searching for details I came across the following accuracy specifications for CAT scales:

CAT Scale
(Digital)
Fairbanks Scales
Capacity: 200,000 pounds,
Division: 20 pounds Accuracy: HB 44, Class III L
±20 lb (2,500 lb)
±20 lb (10,000 lb)
±40 lb (20,000 lb)

20 lb margin of error is pretty darn close.

FeatherFam · 03-18-2017, 02:26 PM

You guys inspired us: We weighed our loaded (including full gas tank) TV today. We are at the GVWR and over it depending on the trip accoutrements. According to the door jam, our maximum payload is 1,613.

GVWR = 6,600

Fully Loaded (OP&C) without trailer = 6,060

Available Load Balance = 540

Our "stated dry tongue/hitch" = 460
Battery 50 +/-
2x Empty 20lb propane tanks = 37- 40
2x Bikes = 70
Total Weight Added to Payload with trailer and bikes = 620

Which means we are over weight by 80(+/-). Is my math right?

Very disheartening. We had everything but the bikes and the trailer. The bike rack was on as was the Equalizer hitch and its bars in the back of the truck. This also does not factor added weight from the trailer's forward storage compartments. Time to streamline. It is amazing how it spells the truth about half tons. Even with a Jay Feather, we are maxing the TV. We really do not have a lot of stuff. We take half of what we see others hauling around. It's just the two of us. We will see what we can shed. I carry two jack stands an extra grill grate that can be removed. After that, we are not sure what else we can do. Would it help to put some things in the trailer (behind its axles)?

If I am thinking correctly, it does not take much at all to max out a half ton. Even these HD "Max Tow" half tons are not what I want. If we wanted to go to larger trailer, we would have one of those maxxed or at max in no time. We did not go for the Flight 24rb or the heavier White Hawks for this reason. They have a good bit more on the hitch. People towing with minivans, crossovers, et al should really load up and go to the scales. Our next truck will be a 3/4 ton. Am I thinking about this right?

kampfirekid · 03-18-2017, 03:20 PM

No disrespect to you, LiftedAWDAstro, but I could not stomach being 1,000# over the GVWR under any circumstances. I was once over the RAWR BY 500# with my 2008 F150, but I had a poorly configured WDH by a dealer, and a good load of camping gear in the bed for the holiday weekend. I realized it before we got to the campground, and switched The load into the trailer over the axles and reconfigured when I got home. That's when I became really knowledgeable on this 1/2 ton payload vs. tongue weight stuff.
I consider myself probably more knowledgeable than most on this issue. I knew going in when making the switch from a 2013 F350 with 3,880# in payload to a 2016 F150, I would be making a drastic change, but again, I was aware. I had a plan. I was going to get by for a few years and then switch back later.
Truth be told, we sold the 32BHDS because it was so heavy (the highest unloaded factory tongue weight to date for a 32BHDS) that we seized the moment to sell it for the perfect price to someone who wanted it for a permanent lot and will never tow it. We then considered hanging up camping for a few years, but now the urge to camp is too great. Ugh.
Funny thing is that before I sold the F350, we physically looked at trailers to see if we could find something that wound work. "Oh, yes! This one is perfect. So is this one!" Now, 10 months later, THOSE trailers aren't good enough because of the bunks and those that are, have dry tongue weights that start too far above the weight we can handle.

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klpoppe · 03-18-2017, 05:04 PM

Out of curiosity do you have EcoBoost with Max Tow or the V8?

Dropnaduece · 03-18-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kampfirekid

7,050 = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
6,460 = Gross Weight (Actual)
590 = Remaining Payload

I'm not sure what deal is with your truck or the weigh in...? I have weighed mine multiple times with and without the trailer (WH 25BHS w/ 880 TW). I have a family of four and a 80lb dog. With a full truck I have 920 lbs of payload leftover. With the trailer I'm just a little under maxed out but it still good and pulls without any problems. I even put a small row of firewood across the front of the truck bed which pushed me over the payload. But come on Ford doesn't put on the truck the max payload numbers the truck can handle because they know it will be pushed to the limits so I'm sure there is a safety buffer. However saying that I'm not willing to push it much further but if I ever felt it to be unstable I wouldn't drive it at all. I know what to much is because the dealer sold me the trailer when I owned an 07' Tahoe. They assured me I was fine and the Tahoe was perfect. Oh NO! On my way home I was so scared on flat freeway with a light breeze. I thought I was going to crash cause I was floating all over the freeway. I have pulled heavy trailers and boats over the years so I thought I would be fine. Not ever pulling a trailer before it I thought I made the dumbest decision ever to buy one after pulling it about 1hr home. I parked it in the driveway and tried to driveway sleep in it but there was no way I could sleep cause of that drive home.

Needless to say much more I was in tears with fear of not being able to use the trailer. My neighbor came over and said where you going with that trailer? I hope not to far and especially not over the mountains with that Tahoe. This only confirmed I was screwed so I went to my Ford dealer I have bought multiple card from over the years and said HELP! I bought my 2016 ford that day and they let me take it home before I signed the papers and I towed the trailer to the dealer. What a BIG difference! I was so excited that I bought the trailer cause it was so easy to pull. The trailer dealer screwed me over I'm so glad I had the means to buy a truck the day after I just bought a trailer. If I couldn't the trailer would of been pulled back and dumped back in there parking lot lol. Anywho I have a 6600lb trailer loaded for camping and I wouldn't go any bigger even tho on this forum people are pulling 28DSBH, 29RKS, and even saw one yesterday a 31' Eagle. Crazy! I do all I can to make adjustments like I removed the extra battery that came with the trailer, downsized the 30lb tanks to 20's, and moved stuff around the trailer to hit the right TW. I'm lucky I have a truck scale less than five minutes away that is free so I have been there lots of times to dial everything in just right. As much as I druel over the 2017 250 and 350's I know I don't want to drive it everyday and only pull my trailer 7-8 times a year. So I'm happy with my 1/2 ton. When I get older and the boys are out of the house I will be upgrading the truck but for now I'm good. How others pull 28-31 models boggles me but that's there decision they must be comfortable with.

Sorry for the long rant but I'm still wondering why you have so little payload? Are you a heavy family? Do you have a topper and some sand bags in the bed?

What model of trailer are looking at? I'm sorry if you have posted it already cause I have not read all the messages in this thread.

Good luck with what ever choices you make but if you get a 17' 350 I will be jealous lol. Oh next year Ford is coming out with a 3.0 Power-stroke diesel.