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07-06-2020, 06:49 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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How to find how much my truck can actually tow
I know, you think this is another "tow ratings" questions, but it's more in depth.
Allow me to explain. I have a 2004 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, 6 ltr gas, 4x4. It's lifted 6" (Fabtech) with 37" tires (brand new Goodyear MTR Kevlars).
It's got 4.88 gears in the back, air-locker, onboard air pump, and 100 other customized goodies the PO installed (like 2, yes 2, 16,500lb Warn winches, one in back and one up front, 160 LEDs on light bars and pods around the entire truck, custom Move bumpers, etc...) Curb weight lists at 9800lbs. I'm betting it's closer to 12k lbs configured like it is. The wheels alone with tires weigh around 100lbs each, so that's 500lbs including the spare. I should really bring it to a scale and weigh it. It's a beast.
I got a Superchips F5 programmer and set the tire size, and rear gear ratio and now my speedo is spot on. I use the "economy" tune. I've also tried the "towing" tune. Tried both with regular and super gas. I don't see ANY difference in MPG or shifting spots while towing or not towing in either program. FWIW: It also solved the "anti-lock break" idiot light.
Given the custom gearing, tire size, reprogrammed ECM to account for speedo, and lifted-truck height factors, how the heck do I figure out the actual tow ability? I'm talking strictly pull-behind TT.
It has no problem pulling my 30' Jayco Jayflight going up a 6 degree ascent towards Prescott from Phoenix. 75mph like it's not towing anything, but yes it's revving around 3500 if I don't have to slow down for anyone else. It'll hit 4500rpm on occasion.
(As an aside for whatever reason the "overdrive" button on the shifter stock does nothing. No light, no difference when towing or not towing. It's not working. In fact I don't think it ever actually drops into "overdrive" in my limited knowledge of how that works. 4th gear = yes, "overdrive" not sure. I'm going 75mph at 2500rpm under normal flat conditions with or without the TT attached.)
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Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-06-2020, 08:02 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Chillicothe
Posts: 511
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The transmission should be a 4L80E in that truck. If you were in direct drive with those gears and tires you would be at 33xx rpm if the torque converters locked up. Please weigh just the truck. The curiosity is killing me. Jay.
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07-06-2020, 08:42 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connellsville
Posts: 22,707
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Two quick questions for you. First, what are the listed axle capacities front and rear on our truck from the factory door sticker? Second, what is the individual tire weight ratings on the Goodyear MTR's?
__________________
Moderator
2017 Jay Feather 7 22BHM Baja/Andersen WD
2018 F150 4x4 3.5L Ecoboost Max Tow
2015 MB Sprinter 2500 Passenger 2.1L Diesel
2007 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 5.9L G56
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07-06-2020, 09:33 PM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Steve&Deb,
Welcome to JOF
I agree, you have a "beast" of a truck....., but your "6" lift" may play a part in the TV's weight towing capabilities. The TV's receiver mounting location, weight ratings, and/or length of WDH shank drop may degrade trailering load weight limits...., physics comes into play.
If you're using the original 2004 GM 2500HD OEM receiver, this is a major weak link. Been there, done it, on my 2005 2500HD.
Just food for thought.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-06-2020, 09:59 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Newark, NY
Posts: 15,885
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I'm wondering if the tires are a factor. They are 'un-sprung' weight, so even though they would take a bit more power to get rolling, could their weight be subtracted?
I'm also curious about the actual scale weight of the truck.
__________________
Moderator
Think you're too old to cry or swear out loud...walk into your hitch in the dark.
2012 Jay Flight 19RD
2016 Ford F150 XLT 2X4 SC 3.5L Eco Max Tow
2010 Tundra TRD DBL Cab (Traded)
2 new fluffy Corgis, Bayley and Stanley
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07-07-2020, 12:00 PM
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#6
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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All good questions.
I'll check on the axel loads, and tire weights to get a more exact figure. I also figure the drop shackle, along with the equal-i-zer with 8k bars comes into equation as well. More on those numbers later when I get a chance to check.
Anyone know a weigh station in north Phoenix?
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-07-2020, 01:49 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,900
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A couple of notes here. You probably won’t have trouble pulling this. You likely will have a hitch up issue with the lift. Most people I know who had lifts had major issues getting things to match. Some never did.
Your trailer tires are probably rated fo 65 mph. That is the speed limit up Sunset point anyway but in our summer heat I would put money on a blowout if you stick to 75 the entire trip.
Having owned a 2004 Duramax which had much more heavy duty brakes than the gassers, you are going to have a stopping problem and some fun coming off of Sunset Point with no exhaust brake.
What you have will likely work with some mods I just think if it were me I would move forward with some caution but the that is me.
The other issue is a tune, long pulls and 115 heat. May not be a problem but it would cause me to be cautious the first several pulls up that “hill”.
__________________
2018 Greyhawk 29MVP-Sold
2023 Jeep Gladiator Mojave
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07-07-2020, 07:30 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Cheyenne
Posts: 804
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I think unless you can find a way to get the factory tow and payload numbers changed legally you will be stuck with those numbers. Like many on here have said you will not get a ticket for being over your factory numbers, but an attorney will have a field day in case of an accident.
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2018 eagle ht 29.5 bhds
2016 f350 Lariat 6.7 powerstroke
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07-08-2020, 02:32 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 153
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It probably has a lower tow rating than factory do to lift, tire circumference, additional drag from added height, additional curb weight, lower payload, etc. Probably impossible to figure exactly, due to all variables. Power additions/mods make towing nicer but capacity has been negatively impacted.
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07-13-2020, 10:47 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,211
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put it on a scale and then go look at your yellow sticker in the pillar.. you likely have less payload with all those goodies on it...
I have never heard of anyone ever getting a ticket for being over weight.. could you ? sure, will you not likely... unless you are commercial...
those big tires aren't going to help your performance much but they look good!
You are most likely just fine... but if you want to know for sure you already answered your question.. why worry about it ???
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07-15-2020, 11:13 AM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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Specs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightmoon
Two quick questions for you. First, what are the listed axle capacities front and rear on our truck from the factory door sticker? Second, what is the individual tire weight ratings on the Goodyear MTR's?
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Sorry - took me a while to get back on here.
GVWR 9200lbs
GAWR Front 4670lbs
GAWR Rear 6084lbs
"The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 3161lbs"
So I guess I misunderstood the actual dry weight of the truck without people/cargo, which as I think I now understand is 9200-3161=6039lbs (right?)
Goodyear Wrangler MT/R Kevlar 37x12.5x17= 75lbs
Load index 124 = 3527lbs
Load range D2 @ 50psi
Speed rating 100mph
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-15-2020, 11:33 AM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
Steve&Deb,
Welcome to JOF
I agree, you have a "beast" of a truck....., but your "6" lift" may play a part in the TV's weight towing capabilities. The TV's receiver mounting location, weight ratings, and/or length of WDH shank drop may degrade trailering load weight limits...., physics comes into play.
If you're using the original 2004 GM 2500HD OEM receiver, this is a major weak link. Been there, done it, on my 2005 2500HD.
Just food for thought.
Bob
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Agreed and I'm going to take it to B&M Bumper that specializes in hitches/bumpers. The guy said my OEM is rated for 900lbs, and with a WDH its around 1200lbs. The toy-haulers I'm looking at are around 1350lbs tongue weight. I'm going full time in this thing, with no toys so I don't know how the pin weight varies between unloaded and if there was a 1800lb Razor in the back.
The guy quoted me $350 for a Curt Class 5
"Rated to 16,000 lbs. gross trailer weight and 2,400 lbs. tongue weight"
That'll solve that weak link. Now the only other potential weak link appears to be the torque and tranny on my 16 year old truck with 140,000miles on it. I was considering getting it Dyno'd. It's got the K&N cold air intake and Gibson performance exhaust so I am really curious what the actual HP and Torque will come in at.
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-15-2020, 11:38 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAG
A couple of notes here. You probably won’t have trouble pulling this. You likely will have a hitch up issue with the lift. Most people I know who had lifts had major issues getting things to match. Some never did.
Your trailer tires are probably rated fo 65 mph. That is the speed limit up Sunset point anyway but in our summer heat I would put money on a blowout if you stick to 75 the entire trip.
Having owned a 2004 Duramax which had much more heavy duty brakes than the gassers, you are going to have a stopping problem and some fun coming off of Sunset Point with no exhaust brake.
What you have will likely work with some mods I just think if it were me I would move forward with some caution but the that is me.
The other issue is a tune, long pulls and 115 heat. May not be a problem but it would cause me to be cautious the first several pulls up that “hill”.
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Yes, that Sunset point hill is nasty. Wish I had the Duramax or even the 8.1ltr gasser.
I do use a brake controller of course, so with the current Jayco I never feel any push from the trailer. Yes, it's half the weight of the toy-hauler I'm looking at. Good point on max trailer tire speed, and I will both check it and ensure I never exceed it. Thank you for that. You might have just saved me a serious accident.
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-15-2020, 07:19 PM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve&Deb
snip........ Curt Class 5 "Rated to 16,000 lbs. gross trailer weight and 2,400 lbs. tongue weight"
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Nice robust receiver
The original GM OEM 2500HD receiver was poorly designed and the 'bottom mounted' pin box weldment gave-way for pin box flex, especially when using a WDH (heavier tongue loads).
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-15-2020, 08:06 PM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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Gotta love Amazon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
Nice robust receiver
The original GM OEM 2500HD receiver was poorly designed and the 'bottom mounted' pin box weldment gave-way for pin box flex, especially when using a WDH (heavier tongue loads).
Bob
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And it's actually only $200 on Amazon...I read many reviews and I believe I can install it myself, sans torque wrench (mine only goes to 85lb-ft) and we'll see how it fits with my Move custom bumper. It's only 6 bolts. Debating using loctite on them as well.
Also going to buy the Sherline 2000lb tongue scale. After reading all these posts about 10-15% proper tongue weight, IMHO this scale should come with every trailer made for safety sake.
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-17-2020, 11:10 AM
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#16
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve&Deb
snip.....Also going to buy the Sherline 2000lb tongue scale......snip
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Steve & Deb,
I've had my 'Sherline' for many years and I keep it in the TT. Been a number of occasions at the CG where a fellow camper has used it...., and surprised at the weight results
If you get the opportunity, feel free to post some picks of your "custom bumper" with the Curt receiver and WDH mounted.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-29-2020, 12:27 PM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Dunlap
Posts: 8
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I would be looking at removing some/all of the suspension lift and returning to or very close to the original factory size tires for your truck if you're planning on continuing to tow your RV with it.. you'll be AMAZED at how much better it will work, plus replace the truck's hitch if that's a problem as stated above. Lifted trucks with hugely oversized tires don't go well with pulling heavier RVs.. not to mention you will immediately realize a much better/safer handling rig afterwards. Speaking from experience here.
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07-29-2020, 12:53 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Lago Vista
Posts: 41
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"...160 LEDs on light bars and pods around the entire truck..."
Point them toward the ground. It will counteract gravity and you will lose 400-500lbs overall.
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07-29-2020, 01:01 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Glendale
Posts: 25
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Another truck
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN2010Jayco35RLTS
I would be looking at removing some/all of the suspension lift and returning to or very close to the original factory size tires for your truck if you're planning on continuing to tow your RV with it.. you'll be AMAZED at how much better it will work, plus replace the truck's hitch if that's a problem as stated above. Lifted trucks with hugely oversized tires don't go well with pulling heavier RVs.. not to mention you will immediately realize a much better/safer handling rig afterwards. Speaking from experience here.
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I think I've come to the conclusion that it just isn't worth the time/effort/money to keep this truck. It was a former Warn Winch show truck (it has over $25k in aftermarket parts/upgrades) and is built for heavy off-road use...not hauling a camper. Sad to see it go, but I really need a diesel anyhow. IF it were a Duramax then I'd consider the lift-delete, but that would also be costly and as a 2004 I would rather spend my $$ buying a newer diesel.
As an aside, in reviewing GMC tow ratings, I noticed something interesting. I was looking at a 2012 Denali HD, turbo diesel 4x4 fully loaded. Nice truck. The max tow rating is 14,800 BUT in reviewing the charts that is only with the 4.10 gears AND ONLY using a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch, i.e. using the bed. Using a tow-behind that number drops to 13,000. Wow. Quite a bit different and something I hadn't even considered in reviewing max tow capacity for any trucks.
Thoughts?
__________________
Steve & Deb
2007 Jayco Jayflight 29BHS
2004 Chevy 2500HD Monster Truck
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07-29-2020, 01:02 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djglover7
"...160 LEDs on light bars and pods around the entire truck..."
Point them toward the ground. It will counteract gravity and you will lose 400-500lbs overall.
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2017 JayFlight 21QB
2021 Ford F150 SCrew 3.5 Eco, 157”, 3.55, Tow Pkg
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