I'm guessing I'm Overweight...

[nogfietsen]

I have a 27.5 RLTS that I've towed with my 2017 F-250 PSD. Despite not appearing to have any difficulty at all either towing, stopping, or wind instability, I can't help but think I'm exceeding my payload. I have weighed the combined rig at a CAT scale but unfortunately did not unhitch and do a second weighing. Results of that first weighing were (all weights in lbs):

• Steer Axle: 4980
• Drive Axle: 5300
• Trailer Axle: 6700
• Gross weight: 16980

While I know to be entirely accurate I would need to do a proper weighing, just looking at the raw numbers concerns me.

Tow vehicle GVWR (from door panel): 10,000
Weight of 5'er (yellow sticker on unit): 8445
Subtracting these two numbers leaves 1,555 which I would have thought would be my payload, however the yellow door tag on my truck indicates the payload at 2,026

Using only these published weights, the remaining payload I would have using the calculated (1,555) and published (2026) payload capacities at the following PIN weight distributions would be as follows:

%. Calculated/Published
15%: 288/759
18%: 35/506
20%: -134/337
23%: -387/84
25%: -556/-85

And the numbers above do not account for passengers, hitch weight, etc. in the truck or anything loaded in the RV.

I understand the way in which RV is loaded will have an effect on the actual PIN weight and I was well below the GCVWR of my tow vehicle when I did my combined weighing.

Am I missing something here or is my 3/4-ton truck not safely capable of towing my half-ton 5th wheel?

[Midnightmoon]

What are your front and rear axle weight ratings from your truck's door sticker?

[nogfietsen]

Originally Posted by midnightmoon

what are your front and rear axle weight ratings from your truck's door sticker?

f: 5200
r: 6340

[Midnightmoon]

This is an unfortunate side effect of owning a 3/4 ton diesel. You are well within axle capacity. But, due to the manufacturers 10K GVWR designation, you will be exceeding your listed payload #'s.

While I'm not actively telling you to operate a vehicle above any of the manufacturers ratings, it isn't necessarily unsafe. In your situation, you are far below your axle ratings and well within the capability of the components of your F250.

Here in PA, many of us that tow heavy have our 2500's registered above the manufacturers listed GVWR to account for Pennsylvania's regulations concerning combination plate requirements. I don't know if that is an option in your state, but it may be something to look into if you are concerned about the registration aspect of it.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

While I'm not actively telling you to operate a vehicle above any of the manufacturers ratings, it isn't necessarily unsafe. In your situation, you are far below your axle ratings and well within the capability of the components of your F250.

X-2 The usual difference between a 250/350, 2500/3500 is an extra leaf in the rear spring pack all other components are normally identical.

[nogfietsen]

Thanks Midnightmoon - I appreciate your feedback.

[Nature Ist]

Numbers can drive you nuts!
First things first, if you look at your truck axle scale weights, you are over your truck GVWR by 280 lbs. Did you compare the yellow sticker weight for each axle compared to your scale weight? One thing going against you is the PS diesel does weigh more than the gas engine, and does reduce your payload capacity. Your sticker payload of 2026 indicates your truck weighs 7984 lbs.
You cannot subtract the trailer sticker weight of 8448 from your GVWR, that would only come into play when looking at GCVWR. Furthermore, your trailer sticker of 8448 is the calculated unloaded weight, you really should use the trailer gross weight in your calculations, as that is about where you will ride when loaded for a trip. I assume your trailer GVW is about 10,000 lbs.
You did not state your F-250 CGVWR, but I would think you are below it when using the GVW of the trailer.
Long story short, you are slightly over your F-250 GVW no matter how you look at it.
It is probably best to go back to a scale with the camper loaded as you would travel with it, and get all readings again, but also with the truck unhitched so you know your trailer pin weight. If you know the weight of your hitch, you can just do the math. If not, you can remove it if you really want to know the truck's unloaded weight.
What you don't know yet is if the camper, when loaded, will make a huge difference on on the truck axles. I suspect you will see the numbers increase.
Unfortunately, you can't do a lot to change your pin weight. Unlike tractor trailers, we can't slide the trailer axles forward to reduce the pin weight. Loading all your heavy items in the rear of the trailer could help, but that won't be easy and things may not stay put.
My HT 30.5 CKTS has a pin weight that is just under 18% of my trailer weight. That's a little on the high side, if it were 15% it would help pin weight a lot. I'll bet your HT is going to come in at about 18% as well.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by nogfietsen

I have a 27.5 RLTS that I've towed with my 2017 F-250 PSD. Despite not appearing to have any difficulty at all either towing, stopping, or wind instability, I can't help but think I'm exceeding my payload. I have weighed the combined rig at a CAT scale but unfortunately did not unhitch and do a second weighing. Results of that first weighing were (all weights in lbs):

• Steer Axle: 4980
• Drive Axle: 5300
• Trailer Axle: 6700
• Gross weight: 16980

While I know to be entirely accurate I would need to do a proper weighing, just looking at the raw numbers concerns me.

Tow vehicle GVWR (from door panel): 10,000
This is the weight of your F250 fully loaded. Dry Weight of the truck is 5,683 to 6,695 lbs plus 4,317lbs to 3,305lbs of cargo, the hitch weight of your trailer is 1,895 lbs. which lowers your cargo weight capacity in the truck to 2,422lbs to 1,410lbs.

Weight of 5'er (yellow sticker on unit): 8445

Your truck is rated to tow a fifth wheel trailer weighing between 14,000lbs. to 16,500lbs depending on your truck's configuration.

Subtracting these two numbers leaves 1,555 which I would have thought would be my payload, however the yellow door tag on my truck indicates the payload at 2,026

Adding the weight of the truck and trailer together would give the GCWR, the maximum rating for your truck is between 21,900lbs to 25,700lbs. depending on your truck's configuration.

Using only these published weights, the remaining payload I would have using the calculated (1,555) and published (2026) payload capacities at the following PIN weight distributions would be as follows:

%. Calculated/Published
15%: 288/759
18%: 35/506
20%: -134/337
23%: -387/84
25%: -556/-85

And the numbers above do not account for passengers, hitch weight, etc. in the truck or anything loaded in the RV.

I understand the way in which RV is loaded will have an effect on the actual PIN weight and I was well below the GCVWR of my tow vehicle when I did my combined weighing.

Am I missing something here or is my 3/4-ton truck not safely capable of towing my half-ton 5th wheel?

I believe your truck is capable of towing your fifth wheel without any problems.

https://www.ford.com/services/assets...stalCode=90001

[Lake Huron]

Specs on your trailer shows pin weight of 1900#. Add the weight of your hitch, say 150# puts your payload at 2050#. Right there you're already 25# overweight, now add the weight of you, the wife, the kid(s), etc... and you just keep going overweight in the payload department.
With the GVWR of your truck being 10,000 and subtract the payload of 2025 your truck alone should tip the scale at just under 8000. And that should be about right. I have a 99 Dodge 2500 quadcab long bed Cummins. I take it to the track sled pulling and pull in the 8000 lb class. My truck tips the scale at just over 8100 and that's with me in it so my truck weighs 7900 +/- a few.
According to the 99 Dodge brochure specs its max 5th wheel trailer weight is 9800 and the GCWR of 16,000. Subtract those two numbers and the truck should weigh 7200. That 7200 math figure is somewhat close to the fairly accurate 7900 that it tips the scales at the track.
Our first 5th wheel was an 04 Montana Mountaineer 318BHS. It was like 9500 dry and had almost 2000 of pin weight. That leaves me with 300lbs play. Me, wife, kid in the truck already have it overweight and that's with NOTHING in the trailer, so yes, it was overloaded. Did it pull it? YES. Could it stop it? YES. Did I feel it was doing both SAFELY? YES. Was I illegally overweight? YES. Did I care? NO. And in reality, how many out there towing rv's are overweight? Probably a lot. Where you're going to run into trouble is if you get into an accident and the cops and/or other involved want to push the issue. As long as it doesn't look like its overloaded or look unsafe running down the road, most likely the cops won't even look at you.
We now have a 15 Silverado 3500 Dually and a 44' Northpoint. I know ALL my weights are within specs so if I get pulled over, etc,. I don't care. And honestly, I didn't care when my Dodge was pulling the Montana either.

[kcordell57]

Fighting the same situation with my F250. I am okay on every weight except GVWR. 1 ton is the way to go and you only gain 1500lbs of GVWR. Dually is ideal. Will it pull it? Yes. Can you stop it safely? Probably. From the voice of many "there is no such thing as a 1/2 ton towable" and "50% of the 5th wheels you see on the road are overweight".

[Big1]

Yeah, I have been in this boat for a long time so I finally told my DW (Nicely) that I wanted a 1 ton so she said okay, now I was able to find a brand new leftover 2018 1 ton with only 19 miles on it and that was last July.

[nogfietsen]

Thank you all for your responses. I was already pretty convinced that with my current configuration, we were marginal at best. Since we are already contemplating an RV upgrade, I'll be upgrading my truck sometime in the not-too-distant future.

I've pretty much settled on a dually, however the next big decision will be an F-350 (or the like) or an F-450...know there are pros and cons with either choice. But that is for another day...

[CampNow]

The 10k GVWR found on 3/4-ton trucks has been debated for years.

Ford and Ram offer some of their HD trucks with *optional* GVWR's. The only difference is found on paper---no mechanical difference between the trucks. Ram offers some of their 3500 (1-ton) trucks with an optional 10k GVWR. The same exact truck can be purchased with a higher GVWR. Again, no mechanical difference between the trucks. Why? The 10k GVWR offers a path around some DOT regulations, and also offers lower registration costs in some states.

The 10k GVWR found on late model 3/4-ton trucks is also an artificial rating that offers a path around some DOT and state registration requirements. Ponder this question: Does anyone honestly believe the Big 3 is incapable of making a 3/4-ton truck with more than a 10k GVWR? If the Big 3 did offer a 3/4-ton truck with a GVWR higher than 10k, it would simply compete head-on with their 1-ton trucks. What's the point?

If you really want to determine the realworld capability of your 3/4-ton truck with a 10k GVWR, simply subtract the empty rear axle weight from the RAWR. That difference (for all intents and purposes), is your true payload available on the rear axle. Add that number (or difference) to the empty weight of the truck and you'll arrive at the *realworld* GVWR (the true capability) of your truck. A realworld GVWR that is *not* encumbered by an administrative or artificial GVWR meant to offer a path around DOT and state registration requirements.

[Archie]

I would say you are over the payload max. of your truck. My 2017 27.5 RLTS loaded has a pin weight of 1800 lbs and a total payload of 2400 lbs. My 2016 chev. 2500 has a yellow sticker over 2700 lbs.

[thenne1713]

Originally Posted by nogfietsen

I have a 27.5 RLTS that I've towed with my 2017 F-250 PSD. Despite not appearing to have any difficulty at all either towing, stopping, or wind instability, I can't help but think I'm exceeding my payload. I have weighed the combined rig at a CAT scale but unfortunately did not unhitch and do a second weighing. Results of that first weighing were (all weights in lbs):

• Steer Axle: 4980
• Drive Axle: 5300
• Trailer Axle: 6700
• Gross weight: 16980

While I know to be entirely accurate I would need to do a proper weighing, just looking at the raw numbers concerns me.

Tow vehicle GVWR (from door panel): 10,000
Weight of 5'er (yellow sticker on unit): 8445
Subtracting these two numbers leaves 1,555 which I would have thought would be my payload, however the yellow door tag on my truck indicates the payload at 2,026

Using only these published weights, the remaining payload I would have using the calculated (1,555) and published (2026) payload capacities at the following PIN weight distributions would be as follows:

%. Calculated/Published
15%: 288/759
18%: 35/506
20%: -134/337
23%: -387/84
25%: -556/-85

And the numbers above do not account for passengers, hitch weight, etc. in the truck or anything loaded in the RV.

I understand the way in which RV is loaded will have an effect on the actual PIN weight and I was well below the GCVWR of my tow vehicle when I did my combined weighing.

Am I missing something here or is my 3/4-ton truck not safely capable of towing my half-ton 5th wheel?

https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-capacity

[Mikayles]

Pin weights..payload capacity. CGVWR. It seems like a big mystery sometimes. I pulled with my 06 Ram 2500 with the Cummins for many years. Was probably overweight many times specifically when towing the Alfa, which according to the sticker on the trailer was a lie lol. Grumpy is right tho about many trucks. My 2500 had 1 ton front and rear axles. It was just the spring made a difference. It honestly pulls our new rig just fine but wife is allready talking a bigger trailer. I just got the wife to understand this. She was dead set against a dually but after a long session explaining as best I could payload capacity etc she now is onboard with a better truck.

[morleyz]

Based on the title, I was expecting this to be a weight loss plan...which I am in need of since being quarantined.

Anyway, I guess the question is do you want to be 100% in compliance with your regulator mandated weight limits or are you looking to validate the trucks capabilities?

If the former, you're probably right and overweight. If the latter, you're likely just fine. Keeping in mind that the only difference between an F-350 and an F-250 is an overload spring, if you're not squatting too much then all other components are the same as a truck that can get a sticker with a 12400 GVWR, or to think of it another way, you can add 2400 lbs of payload by changing the sticker (I don't mean actually changing the sticker, I'm pretty sure that's illegal).

Now if you were trying to a Seismic down the road, I might say you're under sized, but my opinion is if you're happy with the way it tows, you're fine...go enjoy camping and stop worrying about it.

[pawags45]

After reading a post simular to this one about 1.5yrs ago, (right after buying my 2019 Pinnicle 36SSWS) I decided I had to trade in my 3 month old Chevy 2500 Diezel for a Chevy 3500 Dully Diezel. All I had to do was go to you tube and find a few vidios of RV accidents due to over weight and after showing them to the wife she was also on board. I originaly made the mistake of buying the truck before I bought the trailor. I know about weights as I was a 18wheel driver at one point but just never thought we would both want a trailor this big. When I read the post 1.5yrs ago it reminded me and I did the math then called the Chevy dealer. Of couse I lost about $7000 in the deal. lol costly mistake. Always buy the trailor first. lol

[morleyz]

Originally Posted by pawags45

After reading a post simular to this one about 1.5yrs ago, (right after buying my 2019 Pinnicle 36SSWS) I decided I had to trade in my 3 month old Chevy 2500 Diezel for a Chevy 3500 Dully Diezel. All I had to do was go to you tube and find a few vidios of RV accidents due to over weight and after showing them to the wife she was also on board. I originaly made the mistake of buying the truck before I bought the trailor. I know about weights as I was a 18wheel driver at one point but just never thought we would both want a trailor this big. When I read the post 1.5yrs ago it reminded me and I did the math then called the Chevy dealer. Of couse I lost about $7000 in the deal. lol costly mistake. Always buy the trailor first. lol

Right, but you're comparing the OP's sub-10K GVWR "half ton" 5th wheel to your Pinnacle with a 16,750 GVWR. You definitely made the right decision for towing another 7000lbs and carrying another 1500lbs in the bed. Your 2500 was significantly overweight.

In theory, he is right on the numbers for his truck at the max trailer weight, except for maybe some gear in the truck.

[pawags45]

Originally Posted by morleyz

Right, but you're comparing the OP's sub-10K GVWR "half ton" 5th wheel to your Pinnacle with a 16,750 GVWR. You definitely made the right decision for towing another 7000lbs and carrying another 1500lbs in the bed. Your 2500 was significantly overweight.

In theory, he is right on the numbers for his truck at the max trailer weight, except for maybe some gear in the truck.

I never towed at all with the 2500. Told the dealer to hold onto the 5th wheel until I ordered the 3500 dully.