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Old 11-18-2017, 06:50 PM   #1
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Interesting day at the CAT scales

Today, after 2 months with my new 29RKS, we finally loaded everything up, including the dogs, and went to the CAT scales.

First let me say... everyone pulling an RV should go to the scales . What an education!

After three trips across, I was over on TV GWVR, TV Rear axle GAWR, and more than 50lb difference in front axle transfer between loaded an unloaded.

I took the WDH bars up another link in the chain, got it down to just 20lb difference from non-towing on front axle.

Shifted some weight inside the TT and ended up with the numbers below (still 130lbs over payload)... but at least I know and can make some adjustments.

Returned to the storage yard, scraped a pole and ripped the rear awning support and frame off the trailer. So the CAT Scale trip cost me $20 at the scales and I'm sure several hundred for the repairs.


TV/TT Gross Wt. 14720
TV F-Axle 3440 Hitched, w/ WDH
TV R-Axle 3740 Hitched, w/ WDH

TV Gross Wt. 6220
TV F-Axle 3460 Unhitched
TV R-Axle 2760 Unhitched

Loaded TT Wt. 8500 TV/TT Gross Wt. - TV Gross Wt.

TV F-Axle 2980 Hitched, No WDH
TV R-Axle 4520 Hitched, No WDH

Loaded Tongue Wt. 1280 TV Axle Wts - TV Gross Wt.


Percentage of Tongue Weight to Loaded TT Wgt. 15% Good
TT GVWR (9500) to Loaded TT Wgt. 8500 Good
TV GVWR (7050) {Payload Limit} 7180 Overweight
TV Front GAWR (3525){Axle Limit} 3440 Good
TV Rear GAWR (3800) {Axle Limit} 3740 Good
TV GCWR (16,100) 14720 Good
TV front axle transfer 20 Good
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:59 PM   #2
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Maybe the pole, was just helping reduce that 130 pound. Ok, bad humor.

The cat scales can be a real eye opener for many.

Sorry to here about your mishap.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:11 PM   #3
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snip...... First let me say... everyone pulling an RV should go to the scales . What an education!........snip
X2

Great effort at the CAT!!

Bob
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:33 PM   #4
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within 20 lbs on the front axle is really good. I think visiting the CAT scales should be mandatory for anyone who tows. It really helps clarify what the WD Hitch actually DOES, which can be a little tough to wrap your head around for some people.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:18 PM   #5
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Moseh,

Nice work at the scales!!!

From what I found you have a ‘17 F150, correct? If so, this may be a surprise to you, but Ford actually only recommends returning 25% of the lost weight back to the front axle for the newer 150’s. Not sure exactly why they have gone to this suggested wdh adjustment. Possibly due to the higher chance of oversteer if there is more weight transferred to the front axle (without going over the unhitched weight). How does your truck & trailer handle?

The other weight rating you are over on is the trucks factory mounted receiver hitch. It has a max tw rating of 1220lbs w/ a wdh.

I do agree that a CAT Scale trip can be a huge awaking!!! The weight can add up very quickly!!!
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:18 AM   #6
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It is a great thing to know your actual weights. Specs are good but the scale tells you real world info.
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Old 11-19-2017, 05:53 AM   #7
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Ford actually only recommends returning 25% of the lost weight back to the front axle for the newer 150’s. Not sure exactly why they have gone to this suggested wdh adjustment. Possibly due to the higher chance of oversteer if there is more weight transferred to the front axle (without going over the unhitched weight). How does your truck & trailer handle?

The other weight rating you are over on is the trucks factory mounted receiver hitch. It has a max tw rating of 1220lbs w/ a wdh.
Yes. 2017 F150, max tow, 3.5 Eco.
So here is the big question.. I realize (after my visit to the CAT SCALES ...before I only suspected) that I'm pushing the limits of the F150. If I could have a "do over", I would get an F250, but as it is, I have a new F150 w/ 3000 miles.

Will shifting weight behind the TT axles solve both problems? (I'm thinking of putting the DW on a rack on the rear bumper.. that would solve several problems but also create few)

Am I unsafe, for my family and other motorists, to tow as is (maybe shifting or removing a few things). I really don't want to take the huge loss I would suffer on trading TVs, but I also don't want to kill anyone...
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Old 11-19-2017, 06:14 AM   #8
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It’s hard to say what your trailer likes for a minimum tw percentage. Having a 15% tw will allow you to move a few things around. Just remember to keep a minimum of 12%, as high walled rolling bricks generally need 12-15% tw. It’s the open trailers that are ok at ~10% or so.

Moving a little weight back (not the better half!!! ) will lower your tw, and remove a little weight off the ra.

Revisit the scales after moving some things around and go from there once you know where you’re at.
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Old 11-19-2017, 06:19 AM   #9
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Is there anything that you are carrying that you can just get rid of (again, not meaning the wife)? We are all guilty of it, taking along items that we rarely or never use when we are out.
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:25 AM   #10
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Is there anything that you are carrying that you can just get rid of (again, not meaning the wife)? We are all guilty of it, taking along items that we rarely or never use when we are out.
That’s why at the end of the season, it is highly suggested to “purge” anything not used at all during the season. Or possibly only used once, then highly consider if it’s needed or not.

It’s crazy how quickly the weight adds up!!!
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:46 AM   #11
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That’s why at the end of the season, it is highly suggested to “purge” anything not used at all during the season. Or possibly only used once, then highly consider if it’s needed or not.

It’s crazy how quickly the weight adds up!!!
Reminds me of a closet strategy. (Sorry to hijack). Start by Hanging your clothes in the closet with the hook facing out. When you wear clothes, re-hang with hooks facing in. At the end of the year, get rid of anything unworn.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:09 AM   #12
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If you feel the truck handles the weight with no handling issues, I see no reason to change trucks. Did you have any water on board? Do you ever tow with water? Are your kids younger...meaning as they grow, so will the weight of their toys like bikes and chairs? All of this will add weight so in the next couple years, it may be wise to shop for a 3/4 or 1 ton.

I was 1,000# over weight on my Tundra with our 28 BHBE yet, with my ProPride hitch, the truck towed great! I kept it in 4th gear and kept the rpm's up and the Tundra pulled with no issues. I used the equity in it as an opportunity to upgrade to a 3/4 ton diesel. Otherwise I would have kept the Tundra.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:47 AM   #13
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If you feel the truck handles the weight with no handling issues, I see no reason to change trucks. Did you have any water on board? Do you ever tow with water? Are your kids younger...meaning as they grow, so will the weight of their toys like bikes and chairs? All of this will add weight so in the next couple years, it may be wise to shop for a 3/4 or 1 ton.

I was 1,000# over weight on my Tundra with our 28 BHBE yet, with my ProPride hitch, the truck towed great! I kept it in 4th gear and kept the rpm's up and the Tundra pulled with no issues. I used the equity in it as an opportunity to upgrade to a 3/4 ton diesel. Otherwise I would have kept the Tundra.


I’ve been considering a Propride also. Two things are holding me back..cost and weight.


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Old 11-19-2017, 11:03 AM   #14
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Weight really isn't an issue. Yeah it weighs around 200# total. Any other WDH that only tries to limit sway will weigh 100# or so. Cost is definitely an issue. But think about how much money you already have sunk into this camping thing and you will realize the hitch will be 3% or less of the total cost. Once you tow with one, you will NEVER regret the cost.

If you were near me, I would let you hook up to my camper (have to wait until spring now though) with the hitch adjusted to your truck and you would know for sure how well it performs.
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:55 PM   #15
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snip....., but Ford actually only recommends returning 25% of the lost weight back to the front axle for the newer 150’s.....snip
I don't have access to a new Ford owners manual, but does Ford recommend 25% weight, or 25% fender height return?

Bob
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Old 11-19-2017, 05:05 PM   #16
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25% fender height, and the problem is that is a different amount depending on wheelbase.
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:28 AM   #17
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I don't have access to a new Ford owners manual, but does Ford recommend 25% weight, or 25% fender height return?

Bob
Bob,

It is fender height that is stated in the manual. I do know with the trucks I have set up and weighed, returning the front fender to the unhooked height has resulted in 100% return (or 40lbs short on one scale trip-close enough!!!) of the lost front axle weight.

Using the fender height is pretty close to using a scale. Gets one pretty close anyway.

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25% fender height, and the problem is that is a different amount depending on wheelbase.
But how is that a problem that it varies depending on the wheelbase? The wheelbase (and cab & bed combo) is going to be proportional to the lost front axle weight, if using the same tt (controlled weight) are they not? If truck X lost 300lbs, with a different wb than truck Y, which say only lost 240lbs. While the end result will be different for the front axle weight with the wdh hooked up, it is within what is recommended per the manufacture.

The same arguement could be said when using two different length shanks for the wdh. A shorter shank should result in less lost fa weight, while a longer shank should see a higher lost fa weight due to the additional leverage. Though this would be less of a difference if I had to guess.

A thread with CAT Scale weights and the stated wb would be an interesting read. Seeing how different the lost fa weights a reg cab/long bed vs a crew cab/ shorty or even standard bed are.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:11 PM   #18
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Ive tried it twice and both times scale weights didn’t jive with the how much the front fender moved. I was shooting for 50% and the scale showed 70% to 80%. Both trucks were 3/4 tons, one gas one diesel one was EC 8ft bed the other CC SB.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:44 PM   #19
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I will add that the fender measurement method does provide a means to get things set generally if you don’t have access to a scale. In my past experience even if you adjust by the scale weights to a specific FALR take the time to drive the rig under different conditions. You will most likely need to fine tune the WD a bit more or less, go each direction and test drive or readjust after a trip. My TVs have always been on the heavy side and once adjusted I’ve ended up under 50% FALR. WD adjustments in small increments can be difficult for some hitches but it’s worth taking the time to do when you find the sweet spot. For my Equalizer I purchased SS 0.010 shim washers for fine tuning the head angle.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:45 PM   #20
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I have several problems with the fender measurement system
1) it relies too much on having a nice and level spot to take measuerments. I've looked around and I just don't have one. If you have to compensate for slope then you really should be turning the entire rig around each time you make a measurement and averaging those measurements . . . Who's going to do this?
2) As an engineer, I HATE measuring something that is a proxy for the value I really want. it's been my personal crusade at work for years.
3) the main thing is that if you take the same trailer on two different trucks, the change in fender height will be different each time because of different spring rates, wheelbase, and unhitched weights.

I know lots of folks do just fine with the tape measure, but I can't bring myself to do it. I want to know the number of pounds. CAT scale is the only way I'll do it.
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