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Old 01-21-2013, 01:45 PM   #1
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Unhappy jfight 31 hitch weight confusion....please help

Hello all...first time on the forum....
I am buying a 2005 jflight BHS 4 bunks in rear....
I tow (for now) with my 05 Sierra 4x4 crew 4 door sb....
I just got out of an 03 aerolite a28rl...with a little over 430 lb hitch weight...
the jayflight says the hitch weight is over 2000lbs...is this correct and if so how do I realistically get to my 12-15% at my hitch...the tt weighs in at 6850 uvw...that's 29% plus...
is my wdh going to magically fix this....so confused...please help
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:03 PM   #2
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Welcome to JOF

I'm a little confused by some of your data. First, I have to assume that you meant a BHS model, not a BUS....., second, the 2,000lb tongue weight has to be an error.

Here are the specifications for a 2005 Jay Flight 31BHS (from Jayco web site):

Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 6,935lbs
Dry Hitch Weight 960lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight 9,000lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2,065lbs

Measurements:
Exterior Length 32'-6"
Exterior Height 134"
Bedroom Interior Height 81"

Tank Capacities:
Fresh Water Capacity (gals) 46
Gray Wastewater Capacity (gals) 32
Toilet / Black Wastewater Capacity (gals) 32

"Assuming" you were towing at the TT's GVWR of 9,000lbs, a 12% to 15% loaded tongue weight would be 1,170lbs to 1,350lbs......, no where near 2,000lbs!

If your 2005 Sierra is a 1500 model, you may not have enough "payload capacity" to accommodate the combined weights of the TV's passengers, cargo, and the loaded tongue weight of the 31BHS TT.

Don't know enough about your TV to comment, but based on my TV/TT ('05' Eagle 278FBS, 6,915lb UVW, 9,000lb GVWR) combination with a CAT scaled "loaded" TT weight of 8,400lbs (no fluid in tanks), a 1,250lb loaded tongue weight, I wouldn't want to tow my TT with anything less than my 2500HD/6.0L gasser.

Please note, a WDH must be sized to meet the loaded weights of the TT question, and a WDH will not compensate for over-weight TV and/or TT conditions. Also, think in terms of loaded weights, be careful using dry and/or unloaded weights.

Just food for thought.

Bob
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:14 PM   #3
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Weight distribution

HI Bob,

I posted the same question to you on the White Hawk 30 DSRE site. I have read that a WD hitch will apply about 30% of your added tongue weight back to your trailer axles, if this is correct then simply trying to apply the 10 - 15% of your calculated or even measured (with portable scale) TW to your TV GVW will not accurate. It will certainly give you a sizeable cushion in this case about 300lbs. I guess to only way to tell what your loaded with trailer GVW of the TV is, is to go to a CAT scale. Bob, II understand that the TW will not change with respect to the coupler/ball relation but the actual GVW of the TV will be much less once you apply WD. It's funny, all the calculators, on the internet, used to determine TT/TV sizing don't differentiate between WD or W carrying, however the hitch does. Is my though process correct?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
Welcome to JOF

I'm a little confused by some of your data. First, I have to assume that you meant a BHS model, not a BUS....., second, the 2,000lb tongue weight has to be an error.

Here are the specifications for a 2005 Jay Flight 31BHS (from Jayco web site):

Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 6,935lbs
Dry Hitch Weight 960lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight 9,000lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2,065lbs

Measurements:
Exterior Length 32'-6"
Exterior Height 134"
Bedroom Interior Height 81"

Tank Capacities:
Fresh Water Capacity (gals) 46
Gray Wastewater Capacity (gals) 32
Toilet / Black Wastewater Capacity (gals) 32

"Assuming" you were towing at the TT's GVWR of 9,000lbs, a 12% to 15% loaded tongue weight would be 1,170lbs to 1,350lbs......, no where near 2,000lbs!

If your 2005 Sierra is a 1500 model, you may not have enough "payload capacity" to accommodate the combined weights of the TV's passengers, cargo, and the loaded tongue weight of the 31BHS TT.

Don't know enough about your TV to comment, but based on my TV/TT ('05' Eagle 278FBS, 6,915lb UVW, 9,000lb GVWR) combination with a CAT scaled "loaded" TT weight of 8,400lbs (no fluid in tanks), a 1,250lb loaded tongue weight, I wouldn't want to tow my TT with anything less than my 2500HD/6.0L gasser.

Please note, a WDH must be sized to meet the loaded weights of the TT question, and a WDH will not compensate for over-weight TV and/or TT conditions. Also, think in terms of loaded weights, be careful using dry and/or unloaded weights.

Just food for thought.

Bob
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raugustin View Post
snip....... I have read that a WD hitch will apply about 30% of your added tongue weight back to your trailer axles, if this is correct then simply trying to apply the 10 - 15% of your calculated or even measured (with portable scale) TW to your TV GVW will not accurate.....snip
It's not actually 30% of the "added tongue weight" being transfered to the TT axles, but rather a percentage of the weight loaded over the TV's rear axles do to the effect of the TT tongue weight placed on the hitch ball (this isn't necessarily a 1lb to 1lb weight ratio). IMO the 30% is on the high side, not the norm, because not all TV/TT combinations are created equal (to many variables in play here).

The 10% to 15% recommended loaded tongue weight range is the manufacturer's standard specification (or 13% to 15% for the longer TT's), and can be defined by making some assumptions (ball parking) as we have done in this and other threads. Until the actual TV/TT in question is loaded and sitting on a CAT Scale can one accurately apply the 10% to 15% rule.

As you are aware, the main function of a WDH is to return the same weight that was removed from the TV's front axle do to the effect of the TT's tongue being placed on the hitch ball (the weight is thus removed off the TV's rear axle and transferred back to the TV's front axle via the WDH). So depending on how much weight has to be returned to the TV's front axle will dictate how much weight (or percent of) is transfered to the TT's axle(s).

The CAT scale visit will confirm if cargo has to be relocated within a TT to meet a desired loaded tongue weight within the 10% to 15% weight range, until this task takes place we can only work with assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raugustin View Post
snip....... but the actual GVW of the TV will be much less once you apply WD.....snip
I guess it depends on one's definition of "much less", because ultimately the weight that is transferred to the TT axle(s) will represent a very small percentage of the TV's weight prior to engaging the WDH.

Hope I didn't add to the confusion

Bob

CAT Scale how-to: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:23 PM   #5
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Weight distribution

Thanks Bob,
It actually clears things up....as I mentioned in earlier posts, based on actual measured GVW of my TV of 6200# and GVWR of 6800#, leaves me with a payload of 600#. My trailers GVW with filled propane tanks or yellow sticker weight is just under 6400#, there will only be me and my wife so I don't expect to push the weight of the TT over 7100#, so, if even a small amount is transferred back to the TT and off of the TV...it will make me feel a lot better. There are a lot of people running way over their ratings and I really intially thought that I had lots of cushion from what the sales people at both the TV and TT advised....they seemed to leave a lot of things out of the equations. I do remember that someone did mention that the WD hitch would transfer some of the load off of the TV. I've got to tell you that it's been a real eye opener so far and I have learned much just following your posts. I thank you for your help in this learning curve and wish I had this knowledge somewhat sooner.
Thanks Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
It's not actually 30% of the "added tongue weight" being transfered to the TT axles, but rather a percentage of the weight loaded over the TV's rear axles do to the effect of the TT tongue weight placed on the hitch ball (this isn't necessarily a 1lb to 1lb weight ratio). IMO the 30% is on the high side, not the norm, because not all TV/TT combinations are created equal (to many variables in play here).

The 10% to 15% recommended loaded tongue weight range is the manufacturer's standard specification (or 13% to 15% for the longer TT's), and can be defined by making some assumptions (ball parking) as we have done in this and other threads. Until the actual TV/TT in question is loaded and sitting on a CAT Scale can one accurately apply the 10% to 15% rule.

As you are aware, the main function of a WDH is to return the same weight that was removed from the TV's front axle do to the effect of the TT's tongue being placed on the hitch ball (the weight is thus removed off the TV's rear axle and transferred back to the TV's front axle via the WDH). So depending on how much weight has to be returned to the TV's front axle will dictate how much weight (or percent of) is transfered to the TT's axle(s).

The CAT scale visit will confirm if cargo has to be relocated within a TT to meet a desired loaded tongue weight within the 10% to 15% weight range, until this task takes place we can only work with assumptions.



I guess it depends on one's definition of "much less", because ultimately the weight that is transferred to the TT axle(s) will represent a very small percentage of the TV's weight prior to engaging the WDH.

Hope I didn't add to the confusion

Bob

CAT Scale how-to: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raugustin View Post
snip...... There are a lot of people running way over their ratings and I really initially thought that I had lots of cushion from what the sales people at both the TV and TT advised....they seemed to leave a lot of things out of the equations..... snip
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct.

To often RV sales personnel focus the sales pitch around UVW and/or dry weights..., and don't advise customers that the Tow Rating specified with there TV is not accurate. https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

Your comment that "lot of people running way over their ratings" is very true as well.., in part do to many folks "assume" that their TV/TT loaded weights are within limits because it tows and looks fine. Most of the folks that actually do take the time to weight their TV/TT combinations find that the actual weights are higher, and often are exceeding one or more of the specified weight limits.

Great to hear that you are putting in the time to dial in your WDH with the use of a a CAT Scale.

Bob
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