Made it to a CAT Scale. Please help me with my numbers.

[bondo303]

TV GCWR 15,950

TV AXLE LIMITS:
FRONT 3,900
REAR 3,900

CAT Scale weights:

TV LOADED

Steering Axle: 3260
Drive Axle: 2660
Gross Weight: 5920

TT/TV Engaged:

St ax 3260
Dr ax 3460
Tr wt 5320
GW 12040

TT/TV Not Engaged

St ax 2960
Dr ax 3860
Tr wt 5220
GW 12040

LOADED TT 6120
Tongue wt 900
15% is 918

LOADED tv wt 5920
LOADED TV/TT 12040
TT GVWR 6120 (sticker on TT is 6750)

TV GVWR 6720 (sticker on TV 6900).

WDH is Blue Ox 1k/10k for underslung hitch. On first trip now. Felt like I was getting some sway. Kept it 55mph. Very windy as well. I think all my numbers are good. Any and all advice is always appreciated.

Thanks,
Bondo


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[Doug]

Quick glance, everything looks good.
I would check trailer height front and back. Target nose down 1".

Doug

[bondo303]

Thanks Doug, right now it is level. I will readjust so it will be 1" nose down. If I move it 1 hole down which should equate to 1", does it affect the weights and how they are distributed now?

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[need-a-vacation]

Numbers look ok to me as well!!!

If you drop the hitch head a hole on the shank, just double check your measurements and if you feel the need to reweigh on the trip home (or next trip out), do so. Shouldn't be much of a change if at all.

What pressure are the truck tires at, front and rear? TT tire pressure? Make sure the trucks rears are at max sidewall pressure (possibly 44lbs if stock tires), fronts at least the suggested pressure in the drivers door jamb. If you still have p rated tires, could have been the tires "wiggling" that you were feeling, even if aired up all the way.

Enjoy the trip!!!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by bondo303

Thanks Doug, right now it is level. I will readjust so it will be 1" nose down. If I move it 1 hole down which should equate to 1", does it affect the weights and how they are distributed now?

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Just remember that when you lower ball 1", that will lower you fixed point of spring bars 1". That will result in more tension to get spring bars into L-brackets. So, you will need to lower L-brackets by 1 hole to keep same tension.
Weight should be very close. Tongue weight might increase slightly. As stated, just re-run CAT scales 1st chance you get.

Nose down 1" should help with reducing sway, but note your current best approach and you can go back if you don't like.

Keep us posted on final results so we can add learnings to the database :-)
Best regards,
Doug

[bondo303]

Originally Posted by need-a-vacation

Numbers look ok to me as well!!!

If you drop the hitch head a hole on the shank, just double check your measurements and if you feel the need to reweigh on the trip home (or next trip out), do so. Shouldn't be much of a change if at all.

What pressure are the truck tires at, front and rear? TT tire pressure? Make sure the trucks rears are at max sidewall pressure (possibly 44lbs if stock tires), fronts at least the suggested pressure in the drivers door jamb. If you still have p rated tires, could have been the tires "wiggling" that you were feeling, even if aired up all the way.

Enjoy the trip!!!

This campground has an air compressor so I aired front to 40 and rear to 44 (max on sidewall). They were at 39 all around. TT is at max of 50. Also, this is a brand new truck so the p rated tires are still on it. When I mean new I mean I hit 300 miles on the way here. Thanks for all the info.

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[bondo303]

So I just got home and the ride wasn't nearly as adventurous is the ride to the campground. Front was at 40 and rear at 44. I think that made a difference. Also, it wasn't as windy. Now my question is what is the concept behind 1" nose down? The blue ox instructions say to make sure that the camper is level. I am on vacation this week so I will have time to make some adjustments if needed. One more thing, if someone can check what my tongue weight is because I am having a hard time believing that it is only 900 pounds. When I went on the scales I was loaded with all passengers including the dog and all gear. Thanks.

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[sennister]

We have the same camper and same Blue Ox hitch. The only difference is the truck.

Doug mentioned adjustments to the L brackets and such. I assume he is talking about Equalizer hitch because the Blue Ox doesn't have any of this. It is a chain system as you know so you might need to adjust the number of links you drop when you hook it up.

I would say a 900lbs TW is about right. I still need to get out to a CAT scale but our only trips out were not anywhere near the locations. We are going this weekend and again not going near one and it is only a 10 mile trip. In due time.

Looks like you had 6120 for the trailer and depending on how it is loaded 900 sounds about right. It really depends on where you have stuff. The 25BH has more storage up front (pass through and under bed) than in the back assuming you have the optional kitchen. With the kitchen all you really have is some space under the rear bunk but most is taken up by the kitchen and water heater. Then a little under the dinette and the cabinets. If you were at GVWR of the camper of 6750 and 15% on TW you would be looking at 1012.5lbs.

When we set up our hitch we leveled the camper. Then set the ball 1" higher than the coupler as the directions called for. Really when setting this up and the number of links to drop on the chain you should be measuring the front wheel well before hooking up and after. That is how most systems are set up. This is the nice thing about the Blue Ox. There isn't much for adjustment and you can dial in more tension if you need it. If your truck is like ours, it has a leveling system. I know a buddy's Dodge has a similar air suspension as my truck. So it will level out on it's own. The spring bars are what takes out the sway so if you have sway you might want to drop another link or two and that might help as well. We are running 8 links hanging and the cam hooked on the 9th. Your truck may be different though as I suspect hitch height on the TV comes into play.

On the way out Memorial Weekend it was really steady on the way out. On the way home though I could feel us getting pushed around a lot more. Part of that was the first few miles to the County Park where there is a dump site so I know we had a lot of weight in the back of the camper. When we dumped I also dumped my FW tank. So that shed a lot of weight. I could still feel it so we took it easy. However the winds were strong. I want to say 20 MPH sustained and gusts to 40. At least in the area that day. I am not sure what the strongest we felt was. I never was white knuckling during the drive but I felt a sway start and it would stop right away. I think like you I want to try more air in my tires. Some of that was probably sidewall flex and just simply no system will take all the motion out. The point is I would feel it hit the camper it would come back like it was going to start a sway and stop. There is one point where we are going over a high bridge across a river that I had my hand near the brake controller. A little trailer brake can correct sway but I never needed it.

[Doug]

I get 900 lbs tongue weight
6,820 - 5920 = 900

When I think of having my nose down 1", it's to compensate for bumps in the road so that the TT doesn't go above level too easily and I spend more time than I like with my tongue weight too light. Hope that makes sense. I see a lot of people seem to set up level.

Here's a video I like on the tongue weight being too light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

I've had sway and porpoising with initially starting out with TT's. Setting up nose down has always seemed to be my best set ups with 4+ trailers.

Not familiar with Blue Ox, but you may give it a try and see if it seems better. I know racheting off those bolts gets old after awhile, but once you finalize you won't have to touch it again :-)

I always have to know by testing the limits, but that's me.

Best regards,
Doug

[sennister]

Originally Posted by Doug

Not familiar with Blue Ox, but you may give it a try and see if it seems better. I know racheting off those bolts gets old after awhile, but once you finalize you won't have to touch it again :-)

There really are no bolts on the Blue Ox. There are the bolts to adjust the hitch up and down and pinch bolts to move the mounting brackets on the A Frame forward and back. It is a chain based system so you can adjust the spring tension by adding or dropping a link.

Interesting that in the setup video they also mentioned hooking on the 9th link which is what we do as well. I don't know if that changes based on vehicle but we drop 8 links and hook on the 9th.

This video is for the conventional coupler not the underslung like we have but it is the same.

EDIT: They do mention the ball height should be the same or +1" from the coupler height when the trailer is level. If you went with the same height rather than +1" then you would likely be about 1" lower as Doug mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi4SDG7o7eU

[Doug]

So does the Blue Ox WDH have any anti-sway device?
The 1st TT I had I used the chain link style, but it also had a secondary friction anti-sway bar on one side.
If it doesn't have anti-sway provisions, I think they can be added pretty easily.

Doug

[bondo303]

The blue ox has built in sway control.

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[sennister]

Originally Posted by Doug

So does the Blue Ox WDH have any anti-sway device?
The 1st TT I had I used the chain link style, but it also had a secondary friction anti-sway bar on one side.
If it doesn't have anti-sway provisions, I think they can be added pretty easily.

Doug

The bars are the anti-sway device.

With our previous TT we used a Draw-Tite hitch that was a chain based system and it used a 3rd bar with a brake material friction slider for anti-sway. That sounds like what you had before. I think there are a few companies out there with systems along this route.

The Blue Ox differs in that there are just the two bars. They have much more flex to them compared to the system we had before. I can't post a link to the video at a certain point but if you fast forward in the video I posted on setting it up to the 4:24 point there is a shot where you can see the flex in the bars. I know with my old bars they were much thicker and wouldn't flex like this. It is this flex that they have designed the hitch to hold the trailer straight. As it gets out of line there is more flex on one of the spring bars pushing it back in line. The shot is a bit misleading in that it looks like the hitch is way to high when you look at the angle of the A-frame to the truck. Ours is level. Though I could probably drop the hitch a hole if I wanted to try the 1" down that you do. I guess the only thing I would wonder about is if it would put more of a load on the axle. Because we don't have really any adjustment with this hitch, it may depend on the vehicle. They say 0 to +1". If you are in between (0.5"-1.5" and went with 1.5" I can see where it would be better to drop it down one. I would have to measure mine again as it isn't really clear when they say the ball should be 0" to +1" where they are measuring from. I assume top of ball and top of coupler.

I only have experience with the Draw-tite with a much shorter camper (23' overall vs 30') that was also much lighter. I feel this one move around more but not that much. It takes a big gust that I don't know that I pulled the old camper in the same conditions. I don't know that I would call it sway that I am feeling when I catch a gust. Lets say it is left to right. It is a feeling of the back of the camper pushed to the right a little, then it comes back a little to the left then right back in track. As I mentioned the day I noticed this we had 40 MPH gusts in the area. Not sure I had any hit me but even a 30MPH gust is going to push a trailer a bit. Most of this was on the interstate where the speed limit is 70 but I was doing 60-65 in the right lane. Other trips on lighter wind days were smooth as can be. I would say that this camper pulls much smoother than our old one. That might be the LCI Equa-Flex. We used to get a lot of chucking before and that is completely gone. At least if it is there I don't notice it. I don't think the hitch would have anything with that.

[bondo303]

Sen..... to answer your question, my ram does not have the factory air suspension. Just coils in the rear. It does provide a very good/comfortable ride.

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[Doug]

Sounds like you're good to Go.
I can definitely feel my 24' in 30-40mph gusts.
Especially if they come from the side.
Enjoy the TT and keep it between the lines :-)

Best regards,
Doug

[sennister]

Originally Posted by bondo303

Sen..... to answer your question, my ram does not have the factory air suspension. Just coils in the rear. It does provide a very good/comfortable ride.

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When hitching have you checked the front fender height on the truck before and after hitching? I want to say that is going to dictate how many links you need to drop. I guess Ram trucks are like the others in the air suspension is optional. I know my buddy has it on his. I think a 2015.

We had an issue with our suspension and I had to replace the compressor. It made a huge difference in leveling my truck.

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[bondo303]

Originally Posted by sennister

When hitching have you checked the front fender height on the truck before and after hitching? I want to say that is going to dictate how many links you need to drop. I guess Ram trucks are like the others in the air suspension is optional. I know my buddy has it on his. I think a 2015.

We had an issue with our suspension and I had to replace the compressor. It made a huge difference in leveling my truck.

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I measured front and rear fender heights before and after. I don't remember the numbers off hand but the front was within a 1/4" and I think the rear dropped about an inch. When hitched up with bars engaged the trailer is level and front and rear fender are at the same height. I did not like how the bars where not bowed on 9 links. I went to 10 links, more tension, and the bars have, what I feel, have the right bend bend to it. Hard to really see in the pics because it is not close up but 1 is 9 links and one is 10 links.
Attachment 1

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[bondo303]

I have no idea where that 5th wheel pic came from.

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[sennister]

Yeah I don't know what the sweet spot would be for how many links. I do 9 but that may differ from truck to truck based on the amount of sag in your suspension that you get and depending on how I am loaded vs you.

Sounds like things were better with more air in the tires but as you pointed out it was less windy out so not an direct comparison. I would try it the way you are running and see how it does.

[bondo303]

Just wanted to post an update. I just brought the camper in for the recall 150 miles away and now on the Jersey Shore 100 miles from the dealership and I can report that my travels were much more comfortable. Just to recall..... Blue Ox on the 10th link, tires aired to 44 rear 40 front. This setup seems to be optimal.

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