Minor Dilemma...

[bedrck46]

One thing among many things to take into consideration is that you base the TV on the TT's gross weight not the dry weight or some number(weight) in-between
The explorer may be comfortable but its not the TV for the job The 350 is more than capable but may be uncomfortable A good alternative would be a nice expedition with a 5.4 and 3.73 axel The 03 to 06 4X4 are rated at 8650 lb towing capacity and are very comfortable to drive

[BuddyRay]

In looking at the weights, you have to be aware of what year Explorer. I think it was in 2002 that Ford switched from using the Ranger Chassis to building a chassis specifically for the Explorer. That change was in response to all the rollover problems that Explorers pre 2002 had. It got so bad that to this day U-Haul won't rent you a trailer if you drive an explorer (any year - they never learned to differentiate by year).

The 2003 Chassis Explorer with the big V8, 2wd and trailer towing package that I had up until this year would tow 6k very comfortably. We towed a 5.5k Sunline 20ft TT all over the country and never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. I did have to rebuild the transmission at 120k miles - but the mechanic told me that specific Ford Tranny with its Aluminum case almost never made it past 120k even if you didn't tow. I only traded it because I was upgrading to a 5th wheel.

However, my concern is that this Explorer probably does not have a trailer tow package (tranny cooler, lower ratio rear-end, heavier springs, larger alternator/battery. The Trailer Tow package came with a 4 inch hitch receiver automatically.
Also, my vehicle had the big V8. Not sure how capable the V6 is at pulling.

Is trading them both in on something better suited an option?

[Jopopsy]

Wow. I can't believe I'm reading this on THIS forum.

You have a truck way above and beyond the requirements for the trailer you have. In a land where most 'get by' with 'just enough truck', I for one would be envious of you. Tow w/ the truck. You're so over-capacity; most would kill to be able to be in your shoes !!!

Esp. if the Explorer is to be your daily driver. Let it do that. Use the truck for the real work; even if its not going to be work hard b/c your so lucky.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by BuddyRay

In looking at the weights, you have to be aware of what year Explorer. I think it was in 2002 that Ford switched from using the Ranger Chassis to building a chassis specifically for the Explorer. That change was in response to all the rollover problems that Explorers pre 2002 had. It got so bad that to this day U-Haul won't rent you a trailer if you drive an explorer (any year - they never learned to differentiate by year).

The 2003 Chassis Explorer with the big V8, 2wd and trailer towing package that I had up until this year would tow 6k very comfortably. We towed a 5.5k Sunline 20ft TT all over the country and never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. I did have to rebuild the transmission at 120k miles - but the mechanic told me that specific Ford Tranny with its Aluminum case almost never made it past 120k even if you didn't tow. I only traded it because I was upgrading to a 5th wheel.

However, my concern is that this Explorer probably does not have a trailer tow package (tranny cooler, lower ratio rear-end, heavier springs, larger alternator/battery. The Trailer Tow package came with a 4 inch hitch receiver automatically.
Also, my vehicle had the big V8. Not sure how capable the V6 is at pulling.

Is trading them both in on something better suited an option?

I'm not sure which label applies to the chassis under my 2002 Explorer, but I will describe what is under there:

Box channel frame from bumper to bumper
McPherson struts at all 4 corners
Differentials bolted to the frame with half shafts to the wheels
4 wheel disk brakes with a diabolically impossible-to-service parking brake

Can you tell from that description if I have a 'old style' or 'improved style' chassis?

Considering how tight this truck is capable of turning (it is fantastic in parking lots), I'm not surprised at it's potential for rollover.

[norty1]

Spend the little $$$ to set them both up and use as needed. Nothing like a spare just in case and when the time comes to replace one or the other, then you will have a new minor dilemma.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

Wow. I can't believe I'm reading this on THIS forum.
You have a truck way above and beyond the requirements for the trailer you have. In a land where most 'get by' with 'just enough truck', I for one would be envious of you. Tow w/ the truck. You're so over-capacity; most would kill to be able to be in your shoes !!!
Esp. if the Explorer is to be your daily driver. Let it do that. Use the truck for the real work; even if its not going to be work hard b/c your so lucky.

Embarrassment of riches, you say?

You wouldn't be so pushy about using my F350 as a tow vehicle if you tried to spend more than an hour in the current seats! Or with the exhaust noise it had until today.

My situation is that my F350 was purchased as a chore truck and has filled that role quite will since the fall of 2013.

SWMBO's 2009 Tacoma is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth, so I have to do something. Plus getting the settlement for FNPOS meant I had to do several somethings.

I absolutely refuse to buy-in to a Ray Crock designed brand new truck. If I am going to spend serious money on a new truck, it will be what I want, not what "the marketing department believe the general truck-buying public are willing to put up with".

I have my dream-truck mapped out*. But not the $30K-$40K that it'll take build it from a mix of new/used/rebuilt parts. So, for the next couple of years I will "make do" with what I have on hand.

Between no car payment, no collision insurance, no more alimony (as of 10/31/16) and finish paying off the trailer in May '17. I'll be able to set aside the cash to make my dream truck come true in 2018 or early '19.

Then, there will be no question about what truck to pull the trailer with!



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*Briefly: Inline 6 turbo-Diesel, 4x4, manual transmission, SUV body, 1/2 ton suspension + airbags, 1 ton axles with minimalist but comfortable interior.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by norty1

Spend the little $$$ to set them both up and use as needed. Nothing like a spare just in case and when the time comes to replace one or the other, then you will have a new minor dilemma.

Sorry, nope, won't happen. The V6 Explorer won't safely pull my 19RD.

All efforts to civilize the F350 are going forward as practicable.

All compromises on the Explorer will be towards making it as reliable as possible.

[norty1]

So you don't have a dilemma now.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

One thing among many things to take into consideration is that you base the TV on the TT's gross weight not the dry weight or some number(weight) in-between
The explorer may be comfortable but its not the TV for the job The 350 is more than capable but may be uncomfortable A good alternative would be a nice expedition with a 5.4 and 3.73 axel The 03 to 06 4X4 are rated at 8650 lb towing capacity and are very comfortable to drive

Yup, the Explorer is inadequate. I misread the documentation.

Definitely, an SUV on a 1/2 ton chassis would be a near-perfect fit with the 19RD.

However, I have an F350 that is totally paid for and won't take too much to make it fill another role for a couple of years.

Then I will commission a custom car/truck shop to assemble my dream truck.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by norty1

So you don't have a dilemma now.

None whatsoever!

Because of the informed advice from the members of this forum.

Thanks again.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by norty1

So you don't have a dilemma now.

Yes he does Every time he looks in the mirror.

I think we went all thru this when he was talking about using the SWMBO's 2009 Tacoma

[Marcm157]

If I had the option of a dedicated tow vehicle that's definitely the way I would go. I have a 2003 Explorer that I love. It's been passed down from my oldest daughter to now my youngest. I would not want to beat it up pulling a trailer around.

[norty1]

I was re-reading this thread and missed post # 17. , an Aha moment.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

Yes he does Every time he looks in the mirror.

That's not a dilemma, that's a Horror Show!


I think we went all thru this when he was talking about using the SWMBO's 2009 Tacoma

There was never a question we would use her Tacoma. The salesman said it would pull the new trailer fine! A WDH made it practical.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by mike837go

There was never a question we would use her Tacoma. The salesman said it would pull the new trailer fine! A WDH made it practical.

Just curious Just what was all the ranting and raving about in the following thread. Found it very interesting to re-read your posts

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...tml#post427887

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

Just curious Just what was all the ranting and raving about in the following thread. Found it very interesting to re-read your posts

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...tml#post427887

The ranting and raving of THAT thread was about the absolute unavailability of manual transmissions in modern mid-level vehicles (family cars and light trucks).

I had asked, What makes an automatic better than a manual?"

I may be prejudiced, but it seemed that automatics aren't better, just more convenient, more costly, less reliable and waste fuel.

[bedrck46]

I was referring to your comment


I've been towing with SWMBO's 1/4 ton (auto transmission) for 7 years now. The hunting when going uphill or in heavy traffic drives me nuts! Plus worrying over overheating the fluid. Did that last 3-4 shift feel odd? Why is the converter clutch closed yet?


And my comment


Just my opinion but I would say that anyone that tows a TT with a 6000 lb max rating with a TV that has a 6500 lb max towing capacity is entitled to rant and rave about " The hunting when going uphill or in heavy traffic drives me nuts" Now maybe if he had a better TV and wasn't running about 92% of the weight ratio between TT and TV he wouldn't be complaining as much about the hunting.


And then you post about your current Dilemma... about using a explorer that has even less of a tow capacity than the Tacoma. I just couldn't figure what the dilemma was other than it appears you didn't learn from the experience of all the hunting the Tacoma did.


And to quote you "I've got about 40 years and over 500,000 miles of driving experience"

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

...snip...

Just my opinion but I would say that anyone that tows a TT with a 6000 lb max rating with a TV that has a 6500 lb max towing capacity is entitled to rant and rave about " The hunting when going uphill or in heavy traffic drives me nuts" Now maybe if he had a better TV and wasn't running about 92% of the weight ratio between TT and TV he wouldn't be complaining as much about the hunting.


And then you post about your current Dilemma... about using a explorer that has even less of a tow capacity than the Tacoma. I just couldn't figure what the dilemma was other than it appears you didn't learn from the experience of all the hunting the Tacoma did.


And to quote you "I've got about 40 years and over 500,000 miles of driving experience"

Yes, I do know that we are running close on the Tacoma. And I do want to move up to a bigger, more capable TV.

When I started this thread I believed that the Explorer was slightly more capable than the Tacoma.

After other members pointed out that I had totally misread the tables for the Explorer and it is considerably LESS capable that the Tacoma, the dilemma was solved. Utterly and completely!

I now have to put full efforts into making the F-350 as comfortable as possible to be The Tow Vehicle. The Explorer will be my daily driver while I save up the cash for my Dream Truck. Goals clearly established!

--------------

Just as an aside, a 19RD can weigh as much as 6,000#. However, we tow with only 5 gallons of drinking water on board (empty tanks) and only about 300# of food, clothing and other gear. So we are towing just under 5,000#, well within the Tacoma's capabilities.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by mike837go

Just as an aside, a 19RD can weigh as much as 6,000#. However, we tow with only 5 gallons of drinking water on board (empty tanks) and only about 300# of food, clothing and other gear. So we are towing just under 5,000#, well within the Tacoma's capabilities.

I understand that and that you may be well within the Tacoma's specs But that makes me wonder why the Tacoma did all that hunting when going up hills. You may be under 5000# when on flat ground but going up hills with that weight places more drag on the TV.

I normally use a 20/80 % rule Whatever is the max rating of my TV which is currently 8650 my TT should be no more than 80% of that figure which would be 6880 lbs. My current TT has a max gross rating of 5800 lbs That's a good 2850 lbs UNDER what the TV is rated at. I do not have any problems with the hills here in PA with this set-up.

Whenever I figure weights I never say we only have a few hundred lbs in the TT I always use the max weight rating of the TT and that way I know I am well within specs.

Also not being one to brag but in this case I will My driving experience is 50+ years with a total miles of more than twice yours I had one year in which I put over 85000 miles on a new Pick-Up.
And with all that experience I am no where near being an expert.

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

I understand that and that you may be well within the Tacoma's specs But that makes me wonder why the Tacoma did all that hunting when going up hills.
...snip...

Also not being one to brag but in this case I will My driving experience is 50+ years with a total miles of more than twice yours I had one year in which I put over 85000 miles on a new Pick-Up.
And with all that experience I am no where near being an expert.

Thinking about it, "hunting" was the wrong word to describe my perceived problem with the Tacoma. It would downshift (open the converter clutch and drop out of overdrive, possibly go as low as 2nd) allowing the engine to 'scream' @ 3500 rpm. Then build back the mph lost and upshift back into 3rd. On a long hill the 3-2, 2-3 shift full cycle would take about 15-20 seconds. Going down the other side, it would then get back up into overdrive and close the clutch. Settle back to about 1800 rpm.

Maybe we aren't driving fast enough? 55-60 on an Interstate. The sound of the engine purring along on the flats contrasts so heavily with the roar of downshifting so low to maintain speed.

Either way, no more complaints from SWMBO that I am ruining her truck!

--------------------

I never claim to be an expert on anything. I know a whole lot more than 'average' folk. I have lots of experience in quite a few fields. My biggest personal asset is the ability to pay attention to those that might know more than me and learn from them.

I will apologize if my presentation style comes across as "Mr. Know-It-All" or "The Expert on Everything". A bad habit I picked up in high school, being part of the nerd crowd. It has served me well at the office since I wrote the software they use everyday.