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Old 09-21-2017, 09:48 AM   #1
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New Guy With New Guy Questions

Hi There!

I'm new, dumb and kinda lazy. Now that we got the honest part out of the way.

We are interested in the a Jayco TT, most likely a lite series. Family of 4 with two on the way! So while we are thinking lite we will need as much room as possible.

My concern, problem, question is we have a vehicle that we absolutely love. Its also paid off so thats awesome too! But we are not quite sure if it what size ( dry weight ) of TT it could tow. Or if we should give up on it since its a SUV and look for a truck with higher tow capabilities.

We have sadly been to two dealers in my area. One didn't even look at the vehicle just said the towing guide says 6k lbs it will "tow anything!". The second place had a " tow specialist " and they looked at the numbers online + in the door jam read the labels then told me something similar as the first guy it will tow anything up to 5k lbs.

I am not familiar with figuring this out, but I do not trust the dealers just because I know their gig at the end of the day is to sell me something. So I thought to come here and ask.

Looking online myself I realize I am going to most likely need to install :
- Electronic brake controller
- weight distor
- airlift helper bags
* I said most likely bc other places online I've read mention these are great ideas.

Heres the TV info :

2009 Nissan Pathfinder V6 SE 4x4 with a factory installed two package and a factory trans cooler.

* Ive attached 3 pics of the labels within the door jam on this vehicle. I realize they aren't amazing pics.

The Tongue weight for a v6 pathfinder = 600lbs

The Combined weight of occupants, cargo shouldn't exceed = 1102 lbs

GVWR = 6113lbs

Again looking online and what I found on how to calculate this all I was thinking we might be more then fine with a TT that doesn't exceed a dry weight of 3500lbs. Please though correct me if I'm wrong.

Any help, guidance welcomed!
.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:47 AM   #2
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While I'm no expert by any means, it looks like you're going to run out of payload in the TV real fast with a TT weighing 5K#.

If the TW is just 10% and (it's really closer to 12-15%) that's 500# of your 1102# of the TV capacity.
A trailer in the 3500# may be more practical and definitely safer for you and your growing family.
Good Luck with your decision.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:49 AM   #3
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First off, congrats on the growing family. I would browse the Trailer Life tow guides for your model, transmission and axle ratio. Your factory hitch / receiver may be a class rating of 5k or 3,500k, verify that limit. Trailers at 5k often pull fine without a weight distributing hitch. There are specification tables in Jayco brochures so you know how to find a camper within your limits and still sleep six of you down the road. Good luck shopping for what makes sense for you.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:11 PM   #4
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There are many here who can help you do the calculations. But let me say you are smart to post the stickers and ask first. It will save you heartache down the road. There are good dealers out there who are honest. They are just far and few between.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:17 PM   #5
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The thing that's going to get you with that vehicle is the payload. With only 1100 lbs of payload, and 6 bodies (and all the "stuff" that comes with those bodies), you'll run out FAST. Also remember that cargo capacity doesn't include items that have been added since the vehicle left the factory. For example, I had to add a receiver to my wife's XTerra back in the day, that took about 50 lbs right off the top of the listed payload figure.

In your case, with my family, add the weight distribution hitch, 500 lbs of tongue weight, we'd be over for sure. We'd almost be over with just the two of us, not counting our one 3YO son and his car seat. And as has already been mentioned, 500 lbs tongue weight on a 5000lb trailer is not very good; too light a tongue tends to create instability.

Also remember that all those "things" you listed (brake controller, weight distribution ...) do not contribute to the payload or towing capacity of your vehicle. They simply make the load safer/easier to handle. I put supplemental springs on the rear leaf springs on my last truck knowing full well that my payload capacity would not increase, but they DID allow me better control in a maximum load situation.

I'm certainly not going to say it can't be done with the Pathfinder, but given the weight constraints you have, and the size of your family, your options will be few.

I've played a weak hand in the payload game, and I can tell you it's no fun.

ETA: Try this on for size: estimate how much your family weighs with everything they need to ride in the vehicle (or take the clan to a scale with a full tank of fuel, subtract that from the GVWR of the Pathfinder and that will be your actual payload capacity), add 50 lbs for a weight distribution hitch. Subtract that figure from 1100 (or whatever you get from a trip to the scale) and divide the result by .15. This will give you the weight of trailer you can theoretically tow with 15% on the tongue. If you think you can realistically get closer to 12 or 13%, then divide by those. I probably wouldn't go less than 12%.

Example: you have 500 lbs of payload remaining, 500/.15 gives you 3,333. That's the weight of trailer you could theoretically tow. I would use your weight result for GVWR on the trailer. So, using the figure above I'd be looking for something with a GVWR of about 3300 lbs.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:20 PM   #6
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First rule of thumb when looking at trailers is to ignore the "dry" weight. It's a fictional number based on the weight of a base level trailer with no options installed. Things like A/C, awning, microwave, etc. are not factored into the "dry weight". Shipped weight is more accurate and you will find it on a yellow sticker on the outside of the trailer and inside one of the cabinet doors.

More important is what you put in it, your "stuff". The number to go by is the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating). That's the max the trailer can weigh. Ready to camp you'll be closer to that number than the published "dry" weight.

All that said, family of 4 with 2 on the way? That Pathfinder is not going to cut it for anything longer than short trips. That said trailers you are looking at should not exceed 3500# GVWR, not dry weight. If a trailer has a 3500# dry weight then likely it's going to 4500-4700# or better loaded.

You may also end up exceeding your 1100# payload. Say your family weighs a conservative total of 450#. The weight of your hitch is about 100#. The tongue weight of a 3500# trailer is on average about 455#. That's a total of 1005#, only 95# left of things you can put in your vehicle. And that's this year. Your kids grow and gain weight. Add another 100# next year. If your trailer weighs 5000# ready to camp your tongue weight could be 650#. Now you are over.

In my mind you have two things to consider, a bigger more capable tow vehicle, or a pop-up camper. Which BTW can be tons of fun for the kids. We had one for 10 years and loved every minute of it.

EDIT: Camper Bob beat me to the payload comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper_bob View Post

I've played a weak hand in the payload game, and I can tell you it's no fun.
I'll second that. Towing close to your capacity is doable, but far better to have excess capacity available.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:31 PM   #7
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Sure, you can tow a decent sized trailer IF you intend to send the family in a second vehicle. The biggest issue I see is the payload capacity of the SUV. With two adults and four (rapidly) growing kids, plus child seats etc, and any gear you plan to load into the back of the SUV, you will probably not have much left in payload to handle the tongue weight and WD hitch weight too.

I'll offer up my example. I have 2012 Traverse SUV with 5200 lb tow capacity and 1600lb payload; similar specs to yours. We tow an X19H hybrid which tips the scale at about 4600lb loaded (it is 3615 dry) and has a tongue weight of 680lbs loaded (just under 15%). With the wife, two teen kids, and very little cargo in the SUV I am about 150 lbs shy of GVWR for the truck, just reaching the rear GAWR (about 5 lbs below). I have very little room for any more.

Looking at your numbers, you have 2 more kids, and 500 lbs less payload, so an X19H might actually be a bit too heavy for you. I would probably be looking at a smaller 16-17' SLX model if you want to stay in the current vehicle.

The problem of moving to a bigger pickup would be passenger seats; where are you going to put 4 kids? You might consider a full size SUV like a Yukon, Sequoia or similar to fit all the kids and a bigger TT.

The one thing that neither of your dealers seemed to ask you was "how much weight are you already carrying in the Tow Vehicle", and that is the capacity killer right there.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:26 PM   #8
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snip

The problem of moving to a bigger pickup would be passenger seats; where are you going to put 4 kids? You might consider a full size SUV like a Yukon, Sequoia or similar to fit all the kids and a bigger TT.

snip
Ya, and then you're talking some serious $$$$. My dad just bought his "retirement" vehicle. A 2016 (?) Suburban LT that had like 30K miles on it. Brace yourself; $50,000! Ya, it's a nice truck though...
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #9
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Ya, and then you're talking some serious $$$$. My dad just bought his "retirement" vehicle. A 2016 (?) Suburban LT that had like 30K miles on it. Brace yourself; $50,000! Ya, it's a nice truck though...
Yea I'm trying to avoid having to buy a new TV because my Pathfinder is paid off and it only has 80k miles on it. We would be just going across Ca, not really going into deep snow or super far off roading with it. This is why I thought hey it may work.

But from the sound of the advice I could get away with towing with it but it would be pretty close to the payload being maxed out/over. Another option is a Class C RV, they are cheaper used out here. Almost the same costs as a TT. Definitely some more thinking to do here. Appreciate the advice folks.
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #10
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If we did go for another TV I'd probably buy a used truck off of Craigs solely for the purpose of towing.

I would imagine a decent tv would be a 2000-2002 ext cab Silverado 1500 LT/Z71 v8. Seems like they have a bit more capabilities and you can get them a dime a dozen for less then 10k.
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:51 PM   #11
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Do you own a second vehicle? If you do, you could pull something similar to my hybrid which has a GVWR of 3500 pounds without a problem. You'd have to load as much "stuff" and passengers as you can into the second vehicle. Hybrids are roomy, light, and don't require as much setup as a popup.

We always take two vehicles because we also pull a boat. I used to pull my camper behind a Hyundai Santa Fe with no WDH but it was no fun; now I use a second pickup truck. Your Pathfinder is a much more robust vehicle and should be ok as long as you can offload some weight. You may be able to get by without a WDH--you won't know 'till you see how it handles. My hitch weight is about 500 pounds.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:03 PM   #12
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Do you own a second vehicle? If you do, you could pull something similar to my hybrid which has a GVWR of 3500 pounds without a problem. You'd have to load as much "stuff" and passengers as you can into the second vehicle. Hybrids are roomy, light, and don't require as much setup as a popup.

We always take two vehicles because we also pull a boat. I used to pull my camper behind a Hyundai Santa Fe with no WDH but it was no fun; now I use a second pickup truck. Your Pathfinder is a much more robust vehicle and should be ok as long as you can offload some weight. You may be able to get by without a WDH--you won't know 'till you see how it handles. My hitch weight is about 500 pounds.
I do have a second car but is a Honda Civic and that will not be working for our needs either.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:15 PM   #13
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Just as a reference of the Jayco we are looking to tow with that pathfinder.

New 2017 Jayco Jay Flight SLX 174BH Travel Trailer at RVs of Sacramento | Sacramento, CA | #S914
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:57 PM   #14
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I do have a second car but is a Honda Civic and that will not be working for our needs either.
You may have your reasons for not wanting to take your Civic camping but it could lighten up your Pathfinder by about 800 pounds if your wife, a couple of kids, and heavy suitcases are loaded into it. From what I can see you're stuck with two vehicles unless you spend some really big bucks. Why buy another truck when the Civic will help?

Unless, of course, you like pickup trucks and just want one--I can certainly understand that!
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:19 AM   #15
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for whatever reason I went to the scale yesterday. Loaded up the pathfinder with my gear , kids , the woman and a smelly dog. I even loaded a few bikes just for the hell of it.

The pathfinder weighted 4484 lbs, we weighted in at 880lbs, combined 5364lbs.

Nissan claims in their calculations within the OM:

6000lb GVMR - 5425 lb GVW = 575 lb available tongue weight

11,133 GCWR - 5425 lb = 5708 cap for towing

575lb tongue weight / 5708lb tow cap = 10% of the tongue weight

So if I would be going completely off of their suggestions and being 61lbs lighter then their estimates. I should be looking for a trailer with a tongue weight of no more then 575 lbs but either a shipped weight / total loaded weight of say 5000lbs. Does that seem right with you all or do I have something wrong?
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:10 AM   #16
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Do you have a hitch already on the Nissan?
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:12 AM   #17
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yea factory hitch with a weight of 600lb since I have the v6 model.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:34 AM   #18
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Your load capacity is 1102 pounds. If you subtract 880 pounds of passengers and stuff from that you have only 222 pounds left for hitch weight. That's far less than the 500 pounds of hitch weight you can expect from the trailer you're looking at. Also, if you add a weight distribution hitch it may weigh about 50 pounds. You just may have to leave the wife home!

Another thing worth mentioning. When you set this whole thing up be sure your trailer is level. These single axle trailers gain hitch weight rapidly as they rock forward on their axle. The more it lowers the back of your Pathfinder the heavier it gets.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TTS4ME View Post
for whatever reason I went to the scale yesterday. Loaded up the pathfinder with my gear , kids , the woman and a smelly dog. I even loaded a few bikes just for the hell of it.

The pathfinder weighted 4484 lbs, we weighted in at 880lbs, combined 5364lbs.

Nissan claims in their calculations within the OM:

6000lb GVMR - 5425 lb GVW = 575 lb available tongue weight

11,133 GCWR - 5425 lb = 5708 cap for towing

575lb tongue weight / 5708lb tow cap = 10% of the tongue weight

So if I would be going completely off of their suggestions and being 61lbs lighter then their estimates. I should be looking for a trailer with a tongue weight of no more then 575 lbs but either a shipped weight / total loaded weight of say 5000lbs. Does that seem right with you all or do I have something wrong?
The math seems OK to me.

Look, the Gross axle weight ratings and the gross vehicle ratings should be adhered to. Its possible that if a person GROSSLY and NEGLIGENTLY overloaded their truck and caused a highway incident, that the insurance companies might look to you as totally at fault and deny any claims, or worse. There's risk in everything we do.

You can certainly make this work with one vehicle! all you need to do is go easy on the gear and clothes and food. Load as much as you can into the trailer to reduce the load on the rear axle of the truck. (no coolers, no bags, just humans and dog in the truck)

you are probably in the 4500# 19foot camper territory, loaded like the SLX 174BH. basically you'll need to steer clear of anything with slideouts.

with weight distribution i say its doable - but things like cast iron cookware won't be part of your equation.

The only problem is: you really won't know you're overloaded until you buy the camper, buy the weight distribution hitch, load the camper, and put the family into the truck and head over to the scales.

Then you might have no choice but to bring a second car.

But you just don't know until you know.

A family of 6 will make those SLX's seem kinda tight, and the tanks are small, so your length of tank time will be reduced, so plan on "full hookup" spots for a while.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:02 AM   #20
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Disclosure: My opinion is somewhat biased because our next rig will be a motor home.

You might take a closer look at a Class C. If they're as much a bargain as you say in your area, this could solve a whole slew of problems at once. Can you tow the Pathfinder 4-down? If so, that might be a good way to go.

Of course, it all depends on how you intend to use your camper. For us, we've had a travel trailer going into our 5th year now. We LOVE the life. DW and I have always looked longingly at motor homes (even when we bought our trailer), but it wasn't ever quite right. Things are changing and we're making a semi-long-term (4 years maybe?) plan to move into a motor home because our usage would support that move.

One thing you'll have to consider in a MH is the number of belted seating positions. For us it's no problem. Our maximum number of required belted positions (other than driver and passenger) is 2. Most rigs can do that. You would need 4, and there are plenty out there that can't do that.

Beyond that, I like the idea of taking 2 vehicles. We don't do that these days, but we did it a lot growing up. Dad would tow the trailer with the truck, mom would tow the boat with the station wagon. I usually rode with dad, and my brother usually rode with mom. Of course, fuel was relatively cheap back then!

ETA: When you're looking at weights of potential trailers, I firmly believe you should use the GVWR of the trailer. "As shipped" weight is okay, but you have to know how much you'll be loading (that knowledge is usually earned with experience). And if you're that close that you need to worry about every little thing you load, it's probably not the best place to be. Forget brochure weight; it means nothing. And definitely consider "hybrids". They have great efficiency of use.
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