Odyssey of the mind

[SOMBATFAMILY]

So we know that 12% to 15% TW and long wheel base of TV is needed to have a smooth and stable towing. My question is what is the point of ProPride 3 WDH is your TV and TT is already smooth and stable because you already have 24% TW and you're got a 1 ton TV with 10' wheel base towing a 8500# 25' trailer? Does TW matter when using great WDH like the ProPride 3?

[LiftedAWDAstro]

TW absolutely matters even with a ProPride or Hensley hitch. With a more than adequate TV, it isn't nearly as critical as with a marginal or slightly overloaded TV. I towed my 28BHBE with a 2013 Tundra and while power, acceleration, braking and handling were very good, I was overloaded by at least 1000# on the Tundra. I CAT scaled the combo to make sure I was putting as much weight as I could to the front axle. Never had any issue with steering or stability. Now that I have a 3/4 ton diesel, I set the WDH jacks at the same position as I did with the Tundra. I have not scaled the combo and probably won't. It is absolutely 100% stable and handles awesome, same as with the Tundra. The difference is how smooth the pulling power of the diesel is. I set cruise at 68 (on interstates) and she purrs along in 6th gear. Not so for the Tundra!

[SOMBATFAMILY]

Originally Posted by LiftedAWDAstro

The difference is how smooth the pulling power of the diesel is. I set cruise at 68 (on interstates) and she purrs along in 6th gear. Not so for the Tundra!

I saw these videos on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWMWb_pxf8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVlXlbU38zA

So if assume that WDH distribute TW to front axle of TV and anti-sway is to prevent sway. Then with electric sway control where I can have 100# TW or less with a 10,000# trailer, I can tow it with a corvette.


So in your situation a Tundra have same towing characteristic as 3/4 ton truck except you have more power to go faster, is that correct?

ProPride website listed several causes of trailer sway. Speed, wind, bow wave, bad road, down hill, trailer design, improper loading, and poor WDH adjustment.
I can control speed, wind would affect same size trailer the same way no matter what TV is attached to it. I get that bigger TV have more mass but also have more surface area to catch the wind. Bad road and down hill, I can slow down. I can properly load my weight to give enough TW and I can properly adjust my WDH to eliminate sway. So what is ProPride recommended TW? If I can eliminate sway by other means, why should I get ProPride hitch or bigger TV?

[Ottawasteve]

Originally Posted by SOMBATFAMILY

So we know that 12% to 15% TW and long wheel base of TV is needed to have a smooth and stable towing. My question is what is the point of ProPride 3 WDH is your TV and TT is already smooth and stable because you already have 24% TW and you're got a 1 ton TV with 10' wheel base towing a 8500# 25' trailer? Does TW matter when using great WDH like the ProPride 3?

I don't think there are any setups that can guarantee stability no matter what the conditions. It is all about reducing the risk to an acceptable level and there are so many variables that it is impossible to accurately calculate a precise increase in safety towing with an HD TV or using one WD anti sway hitch vs another other than to say that under certain rare conditions, some hitches will perform better than others.

With my current TV, I pulled a small fiberglass trailer from Ontario to Florida and back, about 6000 kms (3600 miles) (plus many other trips). My tongue weight was 480lbs and TT slightly under 4000 lbs. I did not need a WD hitch because I was under the 500lbs TW/5000lb TT requirement by Ford for a WD. Only once did the electronic stability on my F150 kick in (only time since 2009 my ES has activated) during that whole trip despite having the same setup. I had to speed up for a very brief period of time to 70 mph to make the next exit while going around a sweeping turn on a multi-lane highway in very windy conditions and I hit a bump in the highway which affected the TT stability. Was not a fun experience, but in the split second it took my hand to reach the brake controller, the electronic system already kicked in which was pretty impressive.

If I had had a DRW F350 sway would probably not have occurred, if I had had my current Propride hitch or another good quality anti-sway WD hitch the sway would not have occurred, if I had been driving 62 mph or if the wind had been from a different direction or the pothole/bump had not occurred at that precise point in the curve, sway would not have occurred. If I had had another 5% tongue weight, it probably would not have been a problem. If my trailer had been 6000 lbs heavier and 12 feet longer with no sway control the electronic sway control would have been inadequate and the results a disaster. There are many, many other variables, but you get the idea.

The Propride/Hensley hitches are not necessary in all conditions but I believe they do provide you with a larger margin of error to tow safely. I have talked with people who have had unsolveable stability issues that now have a great towing experience with the same TT/TV combination and a simple upgrade to the Propride. The closer you are to the upper ratings of your TV the less margin for error that you have and this is where the PP really pays for itself. You can look up the youtube videos of some grossly mismatched TT/TV combinations (according to manufacturer specs) utilizing the Propride hitch with no stability issues. Although I would not tow with those combinations, it does reassure me that my experience with the Propride hitch is not unique.

[SOMBATFAMILY]

I like your answer because it was thought out and logical. Some people try to solve problems they don’t have by getting bigger truck or more expensive hitch without making proper adjustments to their current setup. So people want to tow their trailer like nothing is attached to their truck.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Originally Posted by SOMBATFAMILY

So if assume that WDH distribute TW to front axle of TV and anti-sway is to prevent sway. Then with electric sway control where I can have 100# TW or less with a 10,000# trailer, I can tow it with a corvette.

I doubt that would be the case. The trailer ESC (remember Jayco offered it and then recalled it because it was not effective) would be activating pretty much any time there was a bump, pothole, groove or any other variation in the road because at such a light TW, the TT will get squirrelly.

Originally Posted by SOMBATFAMILY

So in your situation a Tundra have same towing characteristic as 3/4 ton truck except you have more power to go faster, is that correct?

That is not 100% correct. The Tundra had enough power and would pull the trailer but it was overloaded per Toyota specs. I was over by 1000+# based on the Tundra's GVWR and was even over on the rear axle rating by a couple hundred pounds. Due to being quite overloaded, the Tundra didn't handle the weight like my 3/4 ton does. I added LT tires and Air Lift air bags to the rear. What the ProPride hitch did was keep the combo 100% stable while I was towing. I never, ever felt uncomfortable towing with the PP hitch. It didn't matter if I was cruising at 60 mph on a 2 lane road on a perfectly calm day or was right behind a 53' box trailer at 60 mph on a wet and windy day. The towing experience and stability was the same. Most of the times, we have to look at tree tops to tell if it is windy outside. With the 3/4 ton diesel LWB truck, the towing experience is even better since I can tow in 6th gear at 1500-1800 rpm's and it is nice and quiet in the cab. The 3/4 ton truck needs no mods to handle the weight. I can load anything I need for camping in the bed and even with 1200 # TW, the Ram is 2" - 3" from the bump stops.

Originally Posted by SOMBATFAMILY

ProPride website listed several causes of trailer sway. Speed, wind, bow wave, bad road, down hill, trailer design, improper loading, and poor WDH adjustment.
I can control speed, wind would affect same size trailer the same way no matter what TV is attached to it. I get that bigger TV have more mass but also have more surface area to catch the wind. Bad road and down hill, I can slow down. I can properly load my weight to give enough TW and I can properly adjust my WDH to eliminate sway. So what is ProPride recommended TW? If I can eliminate sway by other means, why should I get ProPride hitch or bigger TV?

There is NO other way to eliminate sway. Your standard friction type WDH only works to control sway. It is not designed to eliminate sway. Only PP and Hensley are engineered to eliminate sway. The reason to upgrade to a PP is if you EVER have gotten a weird feeling while towing whether it be a rough road, passing semi or a windy day, then you need a PP unless you just plan to slow way down or pull off the road.

I originally bought my PP when I traded my 2003 3/4 ton Ram gasser for my Tundra. I knew the hitch I had would be inadequate as it had no sway control. It was a simple round bar WDH. I traded as they gave me a heck of a trade-in and the Tundra simply had way more pulling power than the Ram (35 hp, 26 ft# tq, 6 speed trans and 4.30 gears) Plus it got 30% better empty mileage and 12% better towing the same camper which was a 2012 26BH at that time.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

One thing I will add is that if there ever an opportunity where a member is near enough to me, I will set-up the PP hitch to their TV and let them pull my 28BHBE around and feel the difference.