Over kill on WDH?

Goldenbear · 03-04-2017, 08:25 PM

Purchase new 28RLS last week (max wt. 8,400) so I told sale person I want a 4 point 10,000 lb rating with 1,000 lb tounge wt. He said oh no that cost much more than we supplies. I told him whatever it took that's what I wanted so he said they would throw it in. So when I get home I see were it's rated at 14,000 lb with 1,400 lb tounge wt. Will this overkill hurt me (?) or my advantage or like I'm thinking nothing.

sennister · 03-04-2017, 08:35 PM

Too high of a rating can cause problems. It won't spring properly and can damage the A Frame.

In your case, you said the max wt is 8400# you want a tongue weight of 10-15% so that will mean 1,260#. Not sure what your trailer weights as optioned out empty or how much you are going to carry but in theory if you were loaded to 8400# with 15% tongue weight the 1000# bars would have been inadequate. You would have been fine at 10% but that really is the bare minimum and you are better off running 12% or more.

I guess the other question is did the hitch come with a 1200# option for the bars. It would have likely been a better fit that 1400# if it were me. With my camper my 15% of max weight is something like 1020# and I went with the 1000# bars knowing that I most likely will never run max weight and even if I did if I am around that 12% tongue weight 1000# is plenty.

dewey02 · 03-04-2017, 08:50 PM

Dry weight on this model is 6400 lbs and dry tongue weight is 700 lbs.
Even if you load on 1000 lbs of stuff (water, battery and food, clothing, camping gear) you might be close to 1000 lbs on tongue weight (since you are starting already with 700 lbs dry tongue). Of course exactly where you put that weight (closer to the front of trailer or over the axles or closer to the rear) will also change your tongue weight.

With a max weight of 8400, I think you are probably better off with a tongue weight capacity of 1400 lbs and heavier bars than one of 1000 lbs. May be a stiffer ride, but probably a safer one.

Other folks may have a different opinion.

Rustic Eagle · 03-04-2017, 09:03 PM

The 2017 28RLS has a GVWR of 8,750lbs, and will have a "as shipped" UVW of approx. 7,000lbs or more based on sample yellow weight stickers.

The 28RLS is a 33ft long TT and depending on loading habits can get heavy. IMO an ideal loaded tongue weight range of 13% to 15% would be desirable, but closer to 15% would enhance TV handling (based on towing my similar floorplan TT and with similar weights).

I have a 1,300lb loaded tongue weight (15%) with a 1,500lb rated WDH, works great. My TT loaded weight is 8,500lbs (9,000lb GVWR).

With a 28RLS loaded tongue weight of 1,100lbs minimum, the 1,400lb rated WDH will be fine and will address the heavier weights as well. Like with any WDH proper adjustment is key for optimized TV handling.

I agree that a 1,200lb rated WDH would be a great match, but if you tend to load heavy and/or tow with fluids in the tank(s) then the 1,400lb rated WDH would be desirable.

To confirm all your weights, tongue weight %, proper weight distribution, etc., a CAT scale visit will answer all your questions.

CAT scale 'how-to': http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

Bob

Goldenbear · 03-04-2017, 09:25 PM

If I'm thinking right and this time of night any thing could happen. We will never put over 1000lb on board. So at 8000 I know it's 10 - 15% of max (8000) to get TW which at 10% is 800lb and 15% is 1200 lb.TW. load mostly will be up front in cargo hole. We had a class A before and pack lightly what we take we use and no what if.
My question is, 10 to 15% on TW, how do you know 10 or 15 why not 12 or 13% ?( Now I'm corn fuseing myself)

jsallman1 · 03-04-2017, 09:38 PM

I think your 1400lbs will be OK. At 700LBS dry, adding the battery and gas tanks alone will increase that which I am fairly sure aren't included in the "dry" weight. If you ever tow with water onboard and if the water tank is on the TV side of your TT Axle, you will go over 1000LBS pretty easily is my thought, especially with storage in the front. My dry weight according to Jayco is 765, but put water in it, its nearly 1300lbs with a little stuff in the front storage. Without water its 850-950lbs.

Regarding your tongue weight percentage, take 10% as a minimum, 15% as a max. 12 or 13 as you said is probably ideal. You can get fairly inexpensive tongue scales if you want off amazon or from some RV dealers. CAT Scales are your friend as well to calculate this stuff, much information on this forum about that. To little or much tongue weight can really cause the trailer to ride differently, or even worse, sway easier on the too little side.

If you are closer to 10% on the tongue weight, make sure you know where your waste tanks are. If they are close to the rear of the trailer (like mine are) them being full can really lessen that tongue weight a lot. May mean you don't want to tow with waste water on board.

Rustic Eagle · 03-04-2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenbear

snip.... My question is, 10 to 15% on TW, how do you know 10 or 15 why not 12 or 13% ?....snip

The 10% to 15% range is specified by RV and WDH manufactures, but covers a wide range of RV products and associated weights. The 13% to 15% range is common with the heavier and longer TT's, HTT's, etc., based on actual CAT scale results under loaded conditions.

Since you are towing a moderate to heavy 33ft long TT with a F-150, IMO you will want to be closer to 15% on the hitch ball then 12% - 13%. The additional tongue weight provides enhanced TV control of the TT, especially in less then ideal towing conditions.

For those interested, 'Goldenbear' has another thread addressing his F-150 payload capacity here: http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f7...n-43730-3.html

Bob

Flapper · 03-04-2017, 10:06 PM

Check your receiver - it usually has a sticker. You need to also see what it's rated max. tongue weight is with a WDH. Many F-150's are surprisingly light in that parameter. And it is an integral part of the bumper/frame system, so not easy to upgrade.....

kampfirekid · 03-04-2017, 10:14 PM

Ugh. I wasn't thinking. I have relatively new 1,400# Equalizer I have from our 32BHDS. I was going to use it on a new Flight. It's likely going to be way overkill for the 24MBH we are going to buy. Another $600 out the window. I'd really like a ProPride or Hensley, but that cost isn't in the cards now. Might try to get by with the Equalizer.

Goldenbear · 03-04-2017, 10:20 PM

Thanks kampfirekid, that's on line of what I was asking...small TT big WDH.

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sennister · 03-04-2017, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenbear

If I'm thinking right and this time of night any thing could happen. We will never put over 1000lb on board. So at 8000 I know it's 10 - 15% of max (8000) to get TW which at 10% is 800lb and 15% is 1200 lb.TW. load mostly will be up front in cargo hole. We had a class A before and pack lightly what we take we use and no what if.
My question is, 10 to 15% on TW, how do you know 10 or 15 why not 12 or 13% ?( Now I'm corn fuseing myself)

As others have kind of pointed out. The longer the trailer the more surface area so more to catch wind which can be a source of sway. The more weight you can keep on the front the better as long as your truck can take it.

The only way of knowing your numbers are to load it out and take it to a CAT Scale doing the 3 weigh sessions. Once you have an idea of where you are at if you are at home and are later doing something like adjusting your load out you can get your tongue weight pretty easily with a bathroom scale and some boards. Take a look at this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU

Though if you don't know what your camper really weighs loaded, then it is hard to make much use of it. Since this isn't your first time doing RV traveling you are less likely to bring way more than needed and run really heavy then drastically cut weight throwing off your numbers from the CAT Scale. The biggest challenge will be fine tuning where you put what and how that impacts tongue weight but as mentioned, if you use the bathroom scale method at home as you make these adjustments and can figure out pretty quick where the weight went.

I mentioned the 12% number others said 13% we are all in the ball park of where I would shoot for. A big part of this is as someone mentioned, what happens if you camp somewhere and can't dump your tanks? The grey and black tanks are both behind my axles so it is going to take away from my tongue weight. If I am at 10% and all of a sudden have a few hundred pounds in the back or worse yet way in the back and I might find myself at 8% TW. This is where the individual usage comes into play. We largely will be dry camping. When we pull out we have about 5 miles to go in order to get to a place where we can dump the tanks. Not the end of the world but this needs to be planned for. If you only camp in places with full hookups so you always travel with all the tanks empty all the time, well then that buffer is less important. In my case I have a camper a little shorter but will be watching the TW. I am considering installing a generator on the A Frame once I see how I am balanced. The issue I have is the hitch on my Yukon Denali is limited to 1000# with a WD hitch. That is the other reason I went with 1000# bars. I really can't go over that anyhow. But that is a limitation on my truck. Not sure if it applied to you.

Deal Breaker · 03-04-2017, 10:40 PM

Some interesting hitch info on this site...

"Bigger may not be Better"...

Weight Distribution Hitch Selection

sennister · 03-04-2017, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deal Breaker

Some interesting hitch info on this site...

"Bigger may not be Better"...

Weight Distribution Hitch Selection

Hmm that is interesting but they don't really say much other than talk to an expert but not he salesman. I guess I agree with that but I have also questioned what the service department has said in the past. I guess all I got from their examples were that the 3/4 ton would have beefier suspension on the truck reducing the factor of the spring bars needed where the 1/2 would need a little more "help". But they never said that I am just reading between the lines.

I hope you are not pulling that trailer with your Crosstrek though. I was looking at them this summer but ended up getting a WRX. It is my first Subie and I think I am hooked so far. Or at least after driving it in the snow a few times I was.

Deal Breaker · 03-04-2017, 11:14 PM

Which Equal-i-zer Hitch Model Do I Need?

FeatherFam · 03-05-2017, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deal Breaker

Which Equal-i-zer Hitch Model Do I Need?

This site has a handy calculator on it. We use a 10K Equalizer for our 23RBM. It seems to be a solid match. If our next unit turns out to be larger (likely), we are going to make the Hensley investment, for the long haul.

Goldenbear · 03-05-2017, 07:15 PM

So bigger is not better but stiffer. I wanted 10,000lb WDH instead they put on a 14,000lb. Now I tell sale man I want 12,000. I shouldn't need over 1,200 tounge wt. with 8,750 max wt. Gold is not to go over 1,000 lb in cargo bring it around 8,000. (Darn that's 1,200 TW at 15%).....Again is it 12,000 or 14,000 WDH.......I don't travel with water maybe 1 or 2 gallon and if camp ground has no black dump it will be closes.

jsallman1 · 03-05-2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenbear

So bigger is not better but stiffer. I wanted 10,000lb WDH instead they put on a 14,000lb. Now I tell sale man I want 12,000. I shouldn't need over 1,200 tounge wt. with 8,750 max wt. Gold is not to go over 1,000 lb in cargo bring it around 8,000. (Darn that's 1,200 TW at 15%).....Again is it 12,000 or 14,000 WDH.......I don't travel with water maybe 1 or 2 gallon and if camp ground has no black dump it will be closes.

You might check with the WDH manufacturer and see if there is a difference on the spring bars. Equalizer told me the bars on their 1200 and 1400 are identical, the 1000 are smaller. Its just a heavier duty head is the only difference. Between the 12 and 14. If its the same with the one your looking at, futureproof and go with the larger perhaps since if there is no difference in spring bars.

Goldenbear · 03-05-2017, 07:33 PM

Thanks just read that from 2015 post just what U said.14000 it is.

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kampfirekid · 03-05-2017, 08:54 PM

You'd better check. I was told the 1,400 # bars are the only ones that require a special head. Everything under can use the same hitch head. I've had the 10k, 12k, and now the 14k. I know first hand the 14 is the first one I've seen bars this big with.

Deal Breaker · 03-05-2017, 08:58 PM

I don't think its necessary to zero out your tongue/load weight. Many articles state each tow vehicle will have a different load/tow dynamic. For example a longer wheel base suburban may need to transfer the full tongue load for optimum handling where a shorter wheel base 1/2 ton truck might perform quite well with a bit more tongue weight.

Certainly doesn't seem like an exact science for sure....

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