Payload Question

[EricB]

I have a 2016 Ram 2500, crew cab, 8ft bed, 4X4 and CTD. The truck is equipped with the fifth wheel prep group. Payload capacity as stated on the door sticker is 2008 pounds. I think I understand what payload capacity means, which is everything and everybody that is in the truck is subtracted from this weight. But the Ram website is stating only cargo that is in the bed of the truck?

Am I figuring wrong or is Ram posting misleading info on there website?

Thanks, Eric

[Northern Jay]

Ram is wrong. Cargo is anything more than the basic truck, full fuel and a standard 170lb driver.

Anything more than that is subtracted from cargo carrying capacity. (Canopy, step bars, toneau covers etc) whatever wasn't on the truck when it left the factory.

The CTD killed your 2500 series payload.

Happy Camping

[EricB]

That's what I figured. Glad we are looking at nothing bigger than the Eagle HT's anyways. Hopefully we can just squeak by with the 29.5BHDS, which has a advertised pin weight of 1610 pounds.

Eric

[sailor]

You need to plan on the loaded pin weight being at least 20% higher than the dry (advertised) pin weight.

[TxLoser]

Even the HT's can be heavy for a 3/4 ton with a Diesel engine. I've got a Chevy 3/4 ton and tow a 26.5BHS. Hit the scales after a fill up headed out for a week. 1/2 tank of water. Stuff for a week. 2 adults, 1 small child, a 70lb dog. I'm 100lbs over weight on my truck. 1% overweight is something I can live with. That being said, it illustrates how fast that payload is eaten up.



I'll add that I previously had a 3/4 ton gasser. It had more payload, and in this situation, I'd have had payload to spare. However, more payload does not translate into a better towing experience.

[Flapper]

You'll be very, very overweight.....

My F-150 sticker is 2166 lbs. On the 2013 fifth in my signature, with wife, 2 medium dogs, weight of the hitch, and a pretty light packing job, we were right at payload, and sometimes 100 or a bit more over.

The advertised "dry" pin of my fifth was 1055. Yours is 1610. So you are already 550 lbs heavier than mine. And your truck payload is 150 lbs less than mine....

I was OK with being close or a little over, but I couldn't see going 120%-130% over capacity with any of the newer HT's. They all gained weight in the last couple of years. Hence why we are going to a TT rather than a fifth.

[Northern Jay]

Just keep in mind that your pin weight can be up to 25% of the GVW of the fiver. That can be up to 2250lbs. The hitch is going to be 150lbs+. You ARE going to be well over payload. IMHO not a good thing. That being said, it's your decision.

Happy Camping

[wags999]

Check your owners manual, they may have a weight for driver and passenger already figured in.. if they do it is typically very low ie 150 lbs for a driver..etc. Your owners manual should spell out what is and isn't included.

[Cummins-a-pullin]

I know I am going to get blasted, but after doing lots of reading and searching the cumminsforum.com I would say your good. My situation is as follows: '12 ram 2500 MCSB payload is 1900, pin on new 5er is 2200. This puts me way over, but this is also a 2500 and to be considered a 2500 it needs to weigh less than 10,000 Lbs. These trucks are sandbagged from the factory when it comes to capacity, the truck is identical to a '12 ram 3500 duelly(same rear, same frame, same brakes) except the rear leaf springs. Leagaly if a catistrophic accident happened then you would be liable.

[bansai]

You'll want to confirm with your manufacturer how they determine your payload number. With Fords - The payload sticker does *NOT* include the weight of the driver - you have to subtract that out as well.

Payload is a very simple concept. You take your curb weight - and subtract that from the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of your truck. The driver ADDs weight to your curb weight - therefore your payload has to go down. The only reliable way to get your curb weight when loaded is to take your truck to the scale. The sticker on the door jam is a starting point, but since nobody drives around an empty truck it's obviously not going to be very accurate for most of us.

Here is some information directly from Ford - The driver is *not* 'included' when calculating payload and must be subtracted from the stickered number on the door jam.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...SB_Updates.pdf

Things to call out in that document:

" Base Curb Weight
– The weight of the vehicle including standard
equipment, oil, lubricants and a full tank of fuel. It
does not include the weight of driver, passengers,
cargo or any optional or aftermarket equipment"

"Payload
– Maximum payload is defined as the weight of all
passengers, optional and aftermarket equipment,
and cargo"

And perhaps most important is *net payload* This is what you can carry after you've done all the math

"– Net payload is defined as the weight that can be
placed in the truck after subtracting for driver,
passengers, and optional and aftermarket equipment"

You have to subtract the drivers weight to get your remaining (net) available payload, among other things (such as your tongue or pin weight obviously).

[TxLoser]

Originally Posted by Cummins-a-pullin

I know I am going to get blasted, but after doing lots of reading and searching the cumminsforum.com I would say your good. My situation is as follows: '12 ram 2500 MCSB payload is 1900, pin on new 5er is 2200. This puts me way over, but this is also a 2500 and to be considered a 2500 it needs to weigh less than 10,000 Lbs. These trucks are sandbagged from the factory when it comes to capacity, the truck is identical to a '12 ram 3500 duelly(same rear, same frame, same brakes) except the rear leaf springs. Leagaly if a catistrophic accident happened then you would be liable.

I think the same rings true for all the manufacturers. For planning purposes when making an RV and or truck purchase, these numbers are a great starting reference point. For real world application, you can tell pretty easily if you've got too much trailer. I had a Tundra at one point with my previous trailer. I was 40lbs below max. Even with Timbrens and a good weight distribution setup it didn't feel good. I think with the 3/4 tons you have a little more cushion on the payload numbers.

[01tundra]

On my GMC 2500HD the payload is stated the same "subtract all passengers and cargo" so that leads me to assume that there is no allowance for driver weight.

[need-a-vacation]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

On my GMC 2500HD the payload is stated the same "subtract all passengers and cargo" so that leads me to assume that there is no allowance for driver weight.

Not to mention the wording on the yellow payload sticker in the drivers door jamb stating "ALL OCCUPANTS and cargo not to exceed....". No where does it state the driver (which is an occupant) is already factored in.

Don't forget to factor in the weight of the hitch in the bed.

[Ottawasteve]

To further clarify the matter the Ford Towing Guide for F150-F550 trucks, states that the Cargo Weight Rating assumes a 150 lb passenger at each available seating position. So in a 6 seat Super Crew Cab this would be 900lbs. This is not a misprint, because this same language has been used dating back to at least 2002.

Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is

maximum allowable, assuming weight of

a base vehicle with required camper option

content and a 150-lb. passenger at each

available seating position

All the Ford towing guides from 2002-2017 are available here:
RV & Trailer Towing Guides | fleet.ford.com

[Cummins-a-pullin]

I had a '10 GMC 1500 with a tow capacity of ~7,500 Lbs and I was towing a jayco 29bhs 5600 lbs 840 lbs tongue and 7300 lbs loaded. Truck was well within limits and did fine until we got to the mountains in Lake Placid, NY. Truck couldn't handle the weight, imo 1/2 tons are over rated for sales and the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are underrated for insurance or registration purposes.

[Cummins-a-pullin]

Ford is also know to take radios out and other equipment, pretty much a truck that can't be ordered to boost their ratings. I think there is supposed to be a standard that all trucks are going to have to use in order to publish ratings in the next couple years.

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Ottawasteve

To further clarify the matter the Ford Towing Guide for F150-F550 trucks, states that the Cargo Weight Rating assumes a 150 lb passenger at each available seating position. So in a 6 seat Super Crew Cab this would be 900lbs. This is not a misprint, because this same language has been used dating back to at least 2002.

Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is

maximum allowable, assuming weight of

a base vehicle with required camper option

content and a 150-lb. passenger at each

available seating position

All the Ford towing guides from 2002-2017 are available here:
RV & Trailer Towing Guides | fleet.ford.com

Those towing guides are probably the worst way to determine what you can actually tow since they aren't specific to your exact truck, and they make assumptions about what you, and your passengers weigh. The sticker on the door jam was created when your truck was built, makes none of those assumptions, and it's pretty accurate.

The 'towing guide' is not tailored to your trucks configuration and uses a generic weight for passengers that may - or more likely than not, may not be accurate at all.

That's why the number you'll find in the towing guide is going to be less than your payload capacity really is. I think they are giving people that can't be bothered by doing the simple math themselves, an easy way to ball park their NET payload number, but I think it's actually a disservice.

In my case, there was a 400 lb difference between the generic towing guide, and my sticker.

Best to worst methods of determining your payload:
1. Cat Scale
2. Door jam sticker
3. Generic Towing guide
4. Guessing

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Cummins-a-pullin

Ford is also know to take radios out and other equipment, pretty much a truck that can't be ordered to boost their ratings. I think there is supposed to be a standard that all trucks are going to have to use in order to publish ratings in the next couple years.

You're probably talking about the SAE J2807 standard. Ford is already using it. I think most of them are.

This covers your tow rating, the huge number that people often mistakenly use to decide if they can tow something and historically has been pretty worthless. The tow rating for the 150 actually went up when they switched to the standard.

J2807 doesn't change how they factor your payload. That's always just been GVWR - Curb Weight.

A manufacturer could fiddle with your curb weight by removing a radio or something, but the payload stickered is supposed to be based on your exact, as configured vehicle. Wouldn't surprise me if a manufacturer tried to manipulate this somehow.. Cat scale is the only way to know for sure

Here's an article on J2807
http://thechronicleherald.ca/wheelsn...or-tow-ratings

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Originally Posted by EricB

That's what I figured. Glad we are looking at nothing bigger than the Eagle HT's anyways. Hopefully we can just squeak by with the 29.5BHDS, which has a advertised pin weight of 1610 pounds.

Eric

Eric, You will be absolutely fine with any of the HT Eagles. The same exact truck with the 6.4 Hemi will give you around 3000# of cargo capacity. The only reason our trucks are shown to have about 2000# is that the GVW is 10,000# and the empty truck with the Cummins weighs around 8,000#. It is a legal registration issue when you get over 10,000# GVW. You need a CDL (in NY at least) if the truck is over 10,000 #GVW and you tow a trailer AND it is owned by a company. Personal trucks are excluded.

According to the 2017 Ram trailering guide The Cummins crew cab 4x4 will weigh around 3,000# at the rear tires. The rear axle is rated at 6,000# which is why the Hemi trucks can be rated to carry more weight.

Side note: A good friend of mine just pulled home and Eagle HT 29.5FBDS with his Tundra. He added air bags and with only 20 psi in them the truck sat level and it towed great. He towed in 4th gear and got 8 mpg! He said it was more stable than the 24' bullet he sold last year that was 1 year old.

[Wannabe]

I agree with liftedastro. You have an hd truck. I'd hitch it up and see how it feels. I would bet that it'll ride better than any half ton that it was allegedly designed for. Disclaimer- I am not saying that there are no half tons capable of handling the ht line, I just think that there are few with the right specs.