Programers?

[Edd505]

I was fueling this weekend and got to talking with another Ford diesel guy with the newer 6.4. He claimed adding a tuner changed his unloaded mileage from 11 to 17. His plugged into the diagnostic port and changed the ECM program. It had a couple settings that could be changed anytime by plugging in.

The main use of the 7.3 is towing a 10K 5th for most of it's life. The engine is an absolutely stock 7.3. & gets regular maintenance with synthetic oil. I would like to know if anyone has used a programer? What where the results, good and bad? Mileage increase? What brand programer? I'm not looking to do all the other up grades available, but more hp, torque, and mileage with a programer? Might be worth a try. I'm hoping not to get just opinions but actual use info.

[NVGun40]

The programers can get pricey. They do work though if you want changes. Be advised, I have yet to hear of any brand of programmer which can provide a significant boost of HP, and fuel economy at the same time. Its either a significant increase with one or the other and maybe a marginal increase on the opposite. Often times, if you reprogram for more HP and Torque you will lose mileage, whereas if you reprogram for mileage you will lose HP. If you hear of anyone or even yourself find a significant gain across the board with fuel, HP, and torque, then it is as absolute something is being lost somewhere, (often it results in a shorter engine life).
Everything positive has a negative reaction.

[edatlanta]

My TV is bone stock and reliable. I'm not about to tease the gorilla with some tweaks. The biggest thing that effects mileage is our right foot. No jackrabbit starts for me and only 60 mph and I average 12.0 mpg +/- 0.5 mpg. IMHO

[TWP723]

AS NVGun stated, reprogramming the ECM will give you better gas mileage but you'll lose HP. Can't have both. Sometimes you can come to a happy medium but that takes forever and a ton of trips to the dealer. We have people everyday trying to improve the mileage of their diesels by reprogramming the ECU. We explain to them they'll suffer in horsepower and they quickly refuse. And in some cases, will void a warranty. To me, RV'ing is one of those things. You gotta pay to play.

Keep your power and sacrifice your mileage.

[33 RLDS]

I don't have a diesel but the big blocks in the Chevy's were tuned well below their potential from the factory. I use a cheap Hypertech unit and notice the increase in torque with the 93 octane tune. Since my mpg already is dismal, and the truck only gets used for towing, it was well worth it for me.

[Chrislorl]

Well I have a different point of view.
I drive a 2001 F250 SD with a 7.3L motor. I have been running a chip or tune on it most of it's life and I have put every single mile on it, now at 222,000.
My ECM failed several years ago due to a known factory issue and after replacement I did not re-install the chip. The truck was a slug but I left it that way. Average mileage was about 15mpg (average). Ran OK but not like it did before.
I recently decided to tune it again because I am towing again. It was the best move I made. The truck runs great again, I am getting about 18.5 mpg over about 6 tanks of fuel now and it is more responsive and runs smother. I of course do not have a Dino at home so measuring the HP increase is not possible, but it will again get up and go like it did years ago.

I went with a very simple and not to aggressive tune, the device I used is made by Hypertech and it is the MaxEnergy 42500. Here is a link Error - Hypertech
I found a used one on Amazon for about $250.00. I figured if it didn't work I would return it.

They have 3 stages of tune. I used stage one which claims +32 HP. I definitely feel and see a difference. I tried Stage two which is more aggressive and I did not like the way it shifted and with almost a quarter million miles I didn't need to put that strain on my tranny. Stage 3 was not even a thought.

Amazon has 2 more used ones online now at $263.00.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

The tune is easy, first it backs up all your factory settings, then it loads the tune. You just plug into the OBD port and follow the onscreen instructions. The first Tune took about 10 min's to gather all the info and load it and the second one was much quicker.

The device also told me about a few trouble codes that were stored so I could look them up. Mine were old, I cleared them and the tune loaded easy.

Bringing the new TT home was a breeze with the way the truck pulled.
I hope this helps.

[Edd505]

Looks like a pretty even split right now. I know my drivings good, I spent 30+ years driving for work. I tow a 10K + with a 15 year old truck @ 64-66 and last check got 12.7 mpg average. Living in the SW I deal with mountains all the time and added HP & torque seems like it would be a good thing.

Right now I'm like 33 RLDS, the vehicle gets used for towing so I have a low mileage 15 year old truck. The increase from 11 to 17 empty is not insignificant. Getting 17 I might start driving it more without the 5th wheel.

I did get the programer I gain HP & torque and lose mileage on one setting (tow) and I get lose HP & torque and gain mileage on another (economy). Better unloaded mileage more HP towing as advertized. If I lose 1 or 2 towing and gain 6 unloaded I'd gain over all right?

[33 RLDS]

Originally Posted by Edd505

Right now I'm like 33 RLDS, the vehicle gets used for towing so I have a low mileage 15 year old truck.

My Avalanche is an 04 with only 30K

Hypertech claims 57 HP and 60 ft lbs torque increase on my 8.1 and I believe it as she holds 4th on the highway even on some grades..I rarely see over 3K on the tach unless I want to accelerate up hill..

[kaneman 357]

The more you bump up the horsepower the more trouble your going to have with EGT'S. my 7.3 run's 11 mpg draging 22,000. I like the stability of a dually.

[Plowtoy]

Thats an good question to ask before purchasing one. Ill give you my opinion on programmers based on engines I have knowlage of.

On a 6.0 Ford diesel, absolutely not. Leave a 6.0 bone stock and run it hard, and it will give you many years and miles of reliable service. Install a programmer and beat the snot out of it and you will be in the shop spending big bucks on head gaskets/studs and injectors and the list goes on.

On a 7.3 Ford diesel, really no problem. Our last 7.3 (an 03) had a programmer on it for the time we owned it. It managed to get 14 mpg towing a 12000 lb 5th wheel at 60mph. Stay away from full (hard) throttle starts. The torque converter is the weakest link in the 7.3 drive line. Consider a "tugger" kit in the transmission if it is an automatic (4R100).

On a gas engine, I think you are better off finding a local "gear head/computer geek" who can program your vehicles computer. They are able change many things to "improve" the towing proformance, just let them know what you are looking for. You cant change it back to stock by going that route, but I think you get more bang for your buck this way.

[certified106]

I run a Hypertech stage 2 tune on my 2004.5 Cummins when pulling and I can definitely feel and tell a difference while pulling. When I am running around town and not towing I run a stage 3 tune on it and then go light on the accelerator for a 4+ mpg increase in fuel economy.

I also have a 5" custom exhaust and have mild tranny work done to my truck (increased tranny pressure with new valve body and solenoids) and it has 134,000 miles on it with the orginal tranny in it and is still going strong. I will say this if you are going to tune a diesel you MUST have an EGT gauge on it so you can monitor the exhaust gas temperature as every truck seems to respond to a tune a bit differently depending on injector spray pattern, exhaust flow, etc......

[Edd505]

Thanks for the replies. It's a 7.3 and everyone I know are always saying I wish I had never traded my 7.3 ...... Couple recommends on the Hypertech so I think I'm going to try one. Heck I spend that much on coffee in a month. If I don't like it I can go back to stock and put the Hypertech on the shelf in the shop.

[jnamadison]

The 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4 can all benefit from programmers. Then it's just a matter of how you drive it and the upgrades you put in along side the tune.

I don't personally have experience with the 7.3, but they seem pretty reliable out of the box and can handle a tune without too much need of anything else.

My previous 6.0, I did an egr delete, turbo back exhaust, intake and SCT X3 tuner. The tuner made better use of the upgrades with the programming and resulted in better MPG(16 before, 19 after) AND more HP. I wasn't trying to race anywhere, so lifting the heads and blowing gaskets was never a problem. I would never want to leave a 6.0 stock, as too many stock parts cause it to fail.

6.4's benefit even more from programmers as they can turn off the computer's regen system and when coupled with a DPF/Cat Delete exhaust along with an EGR Delete have show great improvements in both MPG and HP.

You definitely have to pay to play, but done right, programmers (in conjunction with other mods when needed) can be very helpful.

[TWP723]

Originally Posted by jnamadison

The 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4 can all benefit from programmers. Then it's just a matter of how you drive it and the upgrades you put in along side the tune.

I don't personally have experience with the 7.3, but they seem pretty reliable out of the box and can handle a tune without too much need of anything else.

My previous 6.0, I did an egr delete, turbo back exhaust, intake and SCT X3 tuner. The tuner made better use of the upgrades with the programming and resulted in better MPG(16 before, 19 after) AND more HP. I wasn't trying to race anywhere, so lifting the heads and blowing gaskets was never a problem. I would never want to leave a 6.0 stock, as too many stock parts cause it to fail.

6.4's benefit even more from programmers as they can turn off the computer's regen system and when coupled with a DPF/Cat Delete exhaust along with an EGR Delete have show great improvements in both MPG and HP.

You definitely have to pay to play, but done right, programmers (in conjunction with other mods when needed) can be very helpful.

Most of the people that come in the dealership want to "stud" and "delete" their 6.0's. Although, legally we can't do it. We recommend another shop due to liability. But the changes are dramatic.

[Polk]

Some quiet reading for you to research chips and what will work best FOR YOU and YOUR GOALS.

As for tuners versus chips Tunes you can not switch tunes on the fly you also will be limited to generic tunes or only one maybe two custom tuners and then you will be very limited in your choice again. In just about every way the chip is better choice. One thing that can be of confusion on here if you are somewhat new is the use of the term "tuner". On here we are almost never referring to the device called a "tuner" but the person that actually is writing the tunes themselves for the chips.

I would say, easily, 99%+ of members on here and most other dedicated 7.3 sites use a chip not a tuner.

One other thing to keep in mind: the maker of the popular chip used by many tuners to installed there tunes on is the "TS chip" )6 position chip). But that same manf also sell that chip with generic tunes directly to the public as well. So you will see comments about "TS style chips" from one of the custom tuners you are about to learn about with some reading. You want the ones from the custom tuners not the generic TS chip and tunes directly from TS or others. You will quickly understand the difference with some reading.

Of the various custom tuners out there these are the poplar ones with the best reps. Read the thread links below to learn more about them to help you make your choice:

Custom Tuners:

Swamps (Jonathan)

Gearhead Automotive (Matt)

Beans (Jonathan)

BTS (Cale)

Power Hungry Performance (Bill)

Diesel Innovations (David)

Total Diesel Performance(Tony TW)

Truck Source Diesel

DP Tuner(Jody)
I did a lot of research before I bought a custom tune ts6 for my 7.3.
Several things I was told was first get to breath in and out, intake and exhaust. second get gauges to watch temp and boost. Third put the chip in. I did all the work myself and was pretty simple. This has been three years ago and I wish I would have done it sooner.

[Derek700]

I have a programmer on my 6.7 cummins. I also did a DPF delete and EGR delete. My empty mileage went up to 22 mpg on the hwy. on a 5 hour trip towing our trailer thru the mountains we averaged 13 mpg. My truck averaged 15 mpg on the hwy before and 12 towing.

[Edd505]

Originally Posted by Polk

Some quiet reading for you to research chips and what will work best FOR YOU and YOUR GOALS.

As for tuners versus chips Tunes you can not switch tunes on the fly you also will be limited to generic tunes or only one maybe two custom tuners and then you will be very limited in your choice again. In just about every way the chip is better choice. One thing that can be of confusion on here if you are somewhat new is the use of the term "tuner". On here we are almost never referring to the device called a "tuner" but the person that actually is writing the tunes themselves for the chips.

I would say, easily, 99%+ of members on here and most other dedicated 7.3 sites use a chip not a tuner.

One other thing to keep in mind: the maker of the popular chip used by many tuners to installed there tunes on is the "TS chip" )6 position chip). But that same manf also sell that chip with generic tunes directly to the public as well. So you will see comments about "TS style chips" from one of the custom tuners you are about to learn about with some reading. You want the ones from the custom tuners not the generic TS chip and tunes directly from TS or others. You will quickly understand the difference with some reading.

Of the various custom tuners out there these are the poplar ones with the best reps. Read the thread links below to learn more about them to help you make your choice:

Custom Tuners:

Swamps (Jonathan)

Gearhead Automotive (Matt)

Beans (Jonathan)

BTS (Cale)

Power Hungry Performance (Bill)

Diesel Innovations (David)

Total Diesel Performance(Tony TW)

Truck Source Diesel

DP Tuner(Jody)
I did a lot of research before I bought a custom tune ts6 for my 7.3.
Several things I was told was first get to breath in and out, intake and exhaust. second get gauges to watch temp and boost. Third put the chip in. I did all the work myself and was pretty simple. This has been three years ago and I wish I would have done it sooner.

2010 post by Tram on Power Stroke Nation and most of the links do not work. The sites that do seem to be geared to high performance (race) The 7.3 does not have EGR or DPF so no delete options. I'm looking for a simple chip/program for towing power gain. If the "program" works it will likely be there if I ever sell as the primary use is towing, I have a GMC 5.3 for daily driving.

[Edd505]

Programer came in and tow program installed. About 100 miles empty but it is more responsive, idles smother, and seems quieter warming and driving. Off in the AM for about a 400 mile trip with the camper. I'll check mileage when I get home.

[Sledgehammer]

Ive had a programmer on my 7.3 since day 1. Its got almost 200k miles on it without any engine trouble at all. I get 17mpg empty on the interstate, pretty good I think for the gear ratio in the 4 speed 4r100 tranny and a 3.73 rear gear. I get 11-13 towing, depending on the weight and conditions.

I did have to put a transmission in my truck at 170k miles. I've read they were the weak link in these trucks even stock. I've also pulled a lot more weight with mine than I should have from time to time in the past so im sure that contributed to the cause.

[Edd505]

I'm not sure NM has any flat roads it's all mountains. Been a couple weeks and a couple trips. It looks like MPG is holding in mid 11's but definitely more power & less down shifts pulling grades.