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11-14-2017, 09:26 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 11
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Propride and Reducing Tongue Weight
tongue weight with Propride Question:
trailer dry weight with propane tanks 6,165 lbs
hitch weight dry 645 lbs
Max tongue weight 890 lbs
Propride weight = 200 lbs
trailer dry weight + Propride = 845 lbs tongue weight
Add battery to tongue weight and I'm guessing tongue weight is near maxed out.
GVWR of trailer is 7500 lbs
6,165 + propride + tanks + battery only approx 6,415 lbs
full tongue weight of 890 with dry trailer = 14%
Problem/Question: I can't add anything in the storage near the tongue (in front of the axles) b/c I am maxed out on tongue weight.
My understanding is that I can add weight behind the rear axles to decrease the tongue weight so long as the tongue weight does not go below 10%. (Ford recommends between 10 &15% tongue weight of trailer). This would then allow me to add more weight to the front of the trailer with "stuff" - again so long as I don't go over the 15% tongue weight and 890 lbs max.
Would have loaded trailer with 7,415 lbs
6,415 trailer and equipment + 1,000 lbs stuff = 7,415 lbs
1,000 lbs of stuff would be mostly behind the axles and some in front of axles to keep tongue weight down to something less than 890 (max for TV) but more than 740 lbs.
Is this correct, by loading trailer in the back it will reduce the tongue weight?
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11-15-2017, 05:58 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Mid-Mi
Posts: 1,492
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Steve,
Welcome!!!
As for loading behind the axles vs in front, yes- loading behind the axles will reduce the tw. Think if a see-saw where the axles are the pivot point.
Understand this though: the 10-15% is a suggested range that includes open, utility or flat he style trailers!!! A high walled, rolling brick tt usually needs 12-15% tw of the total loaded tt weight. So if you have a 7000lb loaded rig (trailer plus all contents), you could have a tw of 1050lbs (15% of 7000). And regardin tw, the “brochure” dry hitch/tongue weight does not include the propane tanks weight either. The tanks plus a battery add ~120lbs (2-20lb tanks and a battery), or ~160lbs (2-30lb tanks and a battery).
Having to low of a tw can cause sway!!! Even if using a wdh that has sway control. What can happen is the sway control could “mask” the light tw weight sway issue until its to late.
Where there is a “max tw rating” is in regards to your receiver hitch that is mounted to the tv. It could have both a max tw for weight carrying (no wdh) and a max tw with a wdh.
What Ford tv do you have?
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11-15-2017, 06:07 AM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: James Island, SC
Posts: 22,753
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I would not push it to the max. 15-20% is the figure that most use. You will be working your truck and trailer to their max load carrying capacity, which can lead to other problems.
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Moderator
2011- 351RLTS Eagle, MorRyde suspension/pin box,
2017- F350 6.7 PSD Lariat FX4,SRW, SB,CC
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B&W Turnover ball, Companion Std hitch
Can't find what you're looking on JOF? Try Jayco Owners Forum Custom Google Search
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11-15-2017, 07:39 AM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 11
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Thanks for the feedback! I agree with you based on the research that I have been doing, but what you and others might find interesting is the jayco sticker on my camper actually states that it includes the propane weight in the "dry weight" they provided.
"The weight of the recreation vehicle trailer as completed at the factory with full propane cylinder(s) and full generator fuel if applicable is: 6165 lbs
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11-15-2017, 08:34 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
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Steve, I suggest visiting a CAT Scale. At this point you’re estimating the weights and while you might be spot on you could be off by a considerable amount.
The CAT Scale is your friend.
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Cheers,
T_
2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
2013 Eagle Premier 351 RLTS
-SOLD- 2012 X23B
-SOLD- 2003 Ford Expedition 5.4, Bilstein shocks
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11-15-2017, 08:39 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Mid-Mi
Posts: 1,492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegreen
Thanks for the feedback! I agree with you based on the research that I have been doing, but what you and others might find interesting is the jayco sticker on my camper actually states that it includes the propane weight in the "dry weight" they provided.
"The weight of the recreation vehicle trailer as completed at the factory with full propane cylinder(s) and full generator fuel if applicable is: 6165 lbs
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Yes, you are correct in that the YELLOW sticker in your camper states the as delivered weight, including the propane tanks with propane (but not the battery).
But the “BROCHURE” weights do not include the propane tanks or a battery from what I have found in all my searches. That is why your rig weighs more as delivered than the weight listed in the “brochure“.
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11-15-2017, 08:52 AM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Stevegreen,
Welcome to JOF
Question; Where did your originally stated "Max tongue weight 890 lbs" come from?
If you haven't purchased the TT yet I would take your TV under loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, cargo, etc.) to a CAT scale and weight it.
(TV's specified GVWR) - (CAT scale weight) = Available Payload Capacity
APC is the maximum combined weights of; WDH weight, loaded tongue weight, and any other TV cargo weight not accounted for at the CAT.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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11-15-2017, 10:03 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
Question; Where did your originally stated "Max tongue weight 890 lbs" come from?
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Ya know, I was wondering that same thing! 'Cause with a trailer GVWR of 7500 lb he's gonna be putting up to 1125 lb on the tongue/hitch (based on 15%).
Roger
__________________
TV 2010 Ford F-150 Supercab
TT 2016 Jay Feather 23RLSW
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11-15-2017, 10:18 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Surprise
Posts: 2,623
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You need to have adequate tongue weight for handeling purposes. Yes if you offset weight in the rear of your RV you will lower tongue weight...BUT without adequate tongue weight the RV will not tow properly. You need about 12% to 14% tongue weight, no matter what. To light and your putting yourselft at risk.
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2011 Toyota Tundra double cab
2015 27RLS
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11-15-2017, 10:34 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegreen
Is this correct, by loading trailer in the back it will reduce the tongue weight?
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Be very very careful here. In terms of safety considerations, in no case should your loading exceed the Jayco GVWR of the trailer!
I kinda think you may be approaching this quite the right way. First, your trailer and tow vehicle combined GVWRs must not exceed the tow vehicle's GCVW rating. Second, your trailer's GVWR is 7500 lb; travel trailers are *designed* to put 10-15% of that weight on the tongue to be carried by the tow vehicle. That tongue weight is applied to your tow vehicle as payload, so 15% is about 1,125 lb.
There are other considerations, but those are the biggies. But do NOT base your towing capacity questions on the tow vehicle manufacturer's theoretical towing capacity, as that figure does not allow for the tongue weight of our travel trailers.
Example: My 2010 F150 Supercab has a payload capacity of 1,670 (actually a little less due to accessories), but that has to include passengers, luggage and other cargo, the weight of my hitch, PLUS the tongue weight of my trailer. In my case, the trailer tongue weight should be about 900 lb max. While I have not put it on a CAT scale yet, I know I'm already pretty marginal. No way I could safely pull the trailer you're looking at, for example, and still haul any substantial cargo.
Roger
__________________
TV 2010 Ford F-150 Supercab
TT 2016 Jay Feather 23RLSW
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11-15-2017, 11:45 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Frederick
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegreen
Is this correct, by loading trailer in the back it will reduce the tongue weight?
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Yes.... but the effect is not 1 to 1. If you have a 50# battery on the tongue, then you might have to have 150# on the rear bumper to balance that weight out. Distance from center of axles to tongue might be different than from center of axles to rear cargo area. Weight you take off or add to tongue area will have more impact on your tongue weight. Also the weight you add to rear of axle will increase the weight on the rear axle but not decrease the weight on the tongue.
I have DIY bike rack with 6 bikes on the back of my trailer that probably weigh 250# and my tongue weight decrease but 50# using Shoreline tongue scale.
Also 7500# GVWR is the weight of trailer and tongue weight cause your axle weight rating is probably 3500# each.
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Sombat family
2008 Toyota Sequoia Limited
2017 Jay Flight 28BHBE
mod: Dimming awning
Dimming Floor light
Shocks
Custom bike/kayak rack
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11-15-2017, 12:21 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 765
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OP, you may wish to read my post on the TW with ProPride hitch. I am running around 10% TW, towed the trailer for more than 8k miles, including towing from Indiana to California through those windy states and Rockies. I have never experienced any white-knuckle situation. And I am towing with an inadequate TV.
However, I do not tow faster than 60 mph.
https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...ger-44430.html
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28DSBH (MY2017)
Propride 1400
Solar powered 640W plus 400 Ah lithium batteries
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11-15-2017, 01:06 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 11
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This site is great - Thank you everyone! I have a sherline scale that I will be using on the tongue to make sure it is weighted properly. I agree with all the posters regarding the importance of tongue weight.
I will be going to a CAT scale to confirm the weight of the TV and the TT.
We travel in Florida which is pretty flat and when we use our TT we typically pack everything in the TT and not the TV - to make sure we are safely below the GVWR and payload capacity of the TV. This has always worked in the past, but now with the 200 lbs added to the tongue of the TT using the propride - it is making me think about how to re-distribute the weight a little.
We've taken multiple trips in the past driving 65 mph no problem and no significant sway with existing sway control and WDS, but last trip, there was some crazy cross winds that caused some uncomfortable sway - nothing dangerous or even really significant, so I slowed down and no problem. Still stressed me out though.
Decided to go with propride (not for going faster on hwy) for peace of mind.
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11-15-2017, 05:46 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulton, NY
Posts: 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegreen
We've taken multiple trips in the past driving 65 mph no problem and no significant sway with existing sway control and WDS, but last trip, there was some crazy cross winds that caused some uncomfortable sway - nothing dangerous or even really significant, so I slowed down and no problem. Still stressed me out though.
Decided to go with propride (not for going faster on hwy) for peace of mind.
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You will not be disappointed with the ProPride! That hitch is worth every penny and it costs a LOT of them! Even since going to a 2500 diesel, I am still running my ProPride and I will not sell it for something cheaper. Cross winds...What cross winds? Tractor trailer air wash...where is the tractor trailer? This hitch really works that well.
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2017 28BHBE Kitchen skylight, remote control and Aluminum wheels hitched by ProPride 3P
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12-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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#15
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegreen
This site is great - Thank you everyone! I have a sherline scale that I will be using on the tongue to make sure it is weighted properly. I agree with all the posters regarding the importance of tongue weight.
I will be going to a CAT scale to confirm the weight of the TV and the TT.
We travel in Florida which is pretty flat and when we use our TT we typically pack everything in the TT and not the TV - to make sure we are safely below the GVWR and payload capacity of the TV. This has always worked in the past, but now with the 200 lbs added to the tongue of the TT using the propride - it is making me think about how to re-distribute the weight a little.
We've taken multiple trips in the past driving 65 mph no problem and no significant sway with existing sway control and WDS, but last trip, there was some crazy cross winds that caused some uncomfortable sway - nothing dangerous or even really significant, so I slowed down and no problem. Still stressed me out though.
Decided to go with propride (not for going faster on hwy) for peace of mind.
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Will be interested to see your comparison of the same TV/TT setup with the Propride under similar conditions. I anticipate that you will be impressed with the difference.
You don't say which model of TT you have. We have an Eagle 28BHBE with similar weights, we are 8200 loaded for camping which is 1000lbs less than the 9250lbs GVWR of our trailer. We have 1050 lbs of tonque weight (12.5%) measured with a Sherline scale under the jack. In the spring (once the snow is gone), I intend to weigh under the stinger and under the jack as some others have done.
Originally had some heavier stuff like tool kits etc. in the front pass through and when I moved them under the rear bunk it reduced our tongue weight by at least 100lbs. Not scientific or mathematically precise, but when you remove 100lbs from front pass through and place the same 100 lbs under the rear bunk behind the TT tires, you will be reducing your tongue weigh by slightly more than 100lbs.
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