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Old 09-16-2011, 03:46 PM   #1
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Quick question on CAT scale - How can i just get tongue weight?

Hi All,

Heading to a CAT scale later today or tomorrow and was wondering if i should just pull the Jeep on the scale and then drop the tongue without the Equalizer bars on and take the difference as tongue weight. I figure if the TT is off the scale and I drop down on the ball this should work, or is there another way to do it.

...maybe just drop the tongue jack down on the scale but it seems like a lot of work to line that up.

Any advice here? I will be doing other weights too like total etc.

Thanks!
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:43 PM   #2
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Mark,

The fact that you added a bicycle rack to the back of your HTT, smart (and safe) move on your part to check the effect it has on your tongue weight.

There are a couple of ways to confirm your tongue weight:

Option 1:
On the three separate CAT weigh platforms, place the TV front axle, rear axle, and HTT axles on their own respective platforms. Then weigh the TV/HTT with the WD spring bars "disengaged" but with the chains hanging from the snap-up brackets...., re-engage the spring bars once the weigh is complete. Drive off the scale and unhitch the TV/HTT. Drive back on the scale and weight the TV by itself.

TONGUE WEIGHT = (TV Front & Rear axle weights when TV/HTT was weighed together) - (TV gross weight when TV was weighed by itself)

OPTION 2:
Unhitch the TV/HTT on the CAT scale so that the HTT tongue jack stand can be extended down on it's own scale platform, make sure the HTT is level. Make sure that the TV and HTT axles aren't touching the HTT 'jack stand' weigh platform. NOTE: Check with the CAT scale attendant to confirm there is time to preform the unhitch/hitch process.

Of course weighing under "loaded" conditions will give you the most accurate results.

Hope this helps...,

Bob

Complete CAT scale weigh-in process for a TV/TT, HTT, etc., combination: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=3871

Fellow forum member (active thread) just completed the same CAT weigh-in process: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=4380&page=4
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:04 PM   #3
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Thanks Bob...got my numbers and they look really good at first glance but I'm too tired to do all the math tonight. Had to weigh everything twice because I screwed up the first attempt.

Scale op was nice and only charged me one dollar for the re-weigh.

I don't have any issues towing this setup despite being very slightly "up on the ball" it's tough because my Commander is lifted and I already have the 6" drop-shank from Equlaizer. Hate to pop the extra $200 for the 9" drop when I don't feel like I need to.

Gonna look at it on a level street tomorrow to see the extent of the tongue rise if any.

Thanks for all the info in all the posts!!!

Mark
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:02 AM   #4
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Numbers included

Ok, here are my numbers:

Gross TV according to the door sticker = 6500
Gross TT according to sticker = 4950

Weigh 1 TV only:
Front axle - 2660
Rear axle - 2940
Total - 5600 (this is without my kids and SO) so probably would add 300 total more for them and their crap (er stuff they bring in the Jeep)

Weigh 2 TV/TT with WDH engaged:
Front axle TV - 2560
Rear axle TV - 3520
TT - 3900
Total gross - 9980

Weigh 3 TV/TT with WDH unhooked (bars across tongue/spare as I don't have chains for my bars on the Equalizer hitch)
Front axle TV - 2340
Rear axle TV - 3840
TT - 3840
Total gross - 10,020

If my (terrible fuzzy morning) math is correct I have 580lbs of tongue weight with the WDH hooked up and 900lbs without it.

This would mean my current setup (worst case boondock - Honda 3000 full of gas in the back of the Jeep and full of fresh water in the TT) it looks like my tongue is 11.7%.

Without the WDH it would be 18%!

My conclusion is that for this setup, I should try to tension my bars a bit more to get some of the 100lbs back to the front axle, but this might lower the tongue weight percentage to less than 10% so not sure if that's a good idea or not...I guess it depends on how finite the L-bracket adjustments are. The ball is already pinned with 7 washers (9 is max and they only sent the 7.

I'm sure my TT weight will go up a little more over time as I add a few more permanent things to always have with and probably most of it will go ahead of the axles. As I've said before, I have no issues pulling this trailer and have never felt it sway at all...even played around a bit with abrupt lane changes to ramps etc; nothing too out of hand of course. It pulls real nice.

Thanks for all he great advice and great instruction on this site!!!

Mark
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:08 AM   #5
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Not sure what happens to the 40lbs total gross...probably lost it running back and forth hooking and unhooking and running in to get the weights 3 times!!!

It's tough to get axles lined up on individual platforms with a shorter wheelbase TV...the Jeep is 109.5 inches.

Although on one of my "bad" weighs I have the TV on one platform and the TT on another with everything hooked up and that one grosses at 10,020 weight so I think that's where I'm at total.

Can't stand that I can't scroll within a window on my iPad...anyone know how to do this when editing...I hate leaving obvious mistakes out there but when they are far down a long post I can't get to them from the iPad.
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Old 09-17-2011, 10:00 AM   #6
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Mark,

Looks like you have been busy!

I'll add some additional comments/thoughts based on your posted data for your review and confirmation:

TV Weight: 5,600lbs (TV GVWR 6,500lbs).
TV Front Axle Weight: 2,660lbs TV only, 2,560lbs TV/HTT WDH engaged (100lbs short)
HTT Weight: 4,380lbs (HTT GVWR 4,950lbs).
HTT Tongue Weight: 580lbs (13.24% of HTT weight)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTremist View Post
snip........This would mean my current setup (worst case boondock - Honda 3000 full of gas in the back of the Jeep and full of fresh water in the TT) it looks like my tongue is 11.7%.

Without the WDH it would be 18%!

My conclusion is that for this setup, I should try to tension my bars a bit more to get some of the 100lbs back to the front axle, but this might lower the tongue weight percentage to less than 10% so not sure if that's a good idea or not...snip
Actually your tongue weight of 580lbs on the hitch ball doesn't change, with or without the WDH engaged. The WDH doesn't change the tongue weight, it removes weight from the TV's rear axle. Adding/removing weight from the existing HTT weight of 4,380lbs, or shifting the cargo within the HTT will effect tongue weight.

Adjusting the WDH spring bar tension will not change the tongue weight at the hitch ball, but your correct it will transfer more weight to the TV's front axle...... by removing (returning) more weight off the TV's rear axle. You will also see a little more weight transfered to the TT axles as well.

Check my math, but I believe that your tongue weight is 13.24% of your HTT weight in lieu of 11.7% (both within recommended range).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTremist View Post
snip......Not sure what happens to the 40lbs total gross...probably lost it running back and forth hooking and unhooking and running in to get the weights 3 times!!!......snip
There is some allowed tolerance error with the CAT scales but I don't remember what is, but I'm sure that's what you experienced.

Pulling together your TV's specified GCWR, TV Axles, and receiver weight limits can also be confirmed against your CAT data as well.

Knowing that your loaded HTT tongue weight is 580lbs, this also tells us that you should have a WDH (in your case a Equal-i-zer) rated at no less than 600lbs.

Looks like the weights are working out in your favor thus far, and you should be fine once you move another 100lbs back to the TV's front axle, and confirm how high your tongue is from the HTT being level.

Enjoy the next trip out with the family!

Bob
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTremist View Post
Thanks Bob...got my numbers and they look really good at first glance but I'm too tired to do all the math tonight. Had to weigh everything twice because I screwed up the first attempt.

Scale op was nice and only charged me one dollar for the re-weigh.

I don't have any issues towing this setup despite being very slightly "up on the ball" it's tough because my Commander is lifted and I already have the 6" drop-shank from Equlaizer. Hate to pop the extra $200 for the 9" drop when I don't feel like I need to.

Gonna look at it on a level street tomorrow to see the extent of the tongue rise if any.

Thanks for all the info in all the posts!!!
Mark
I purchased a replacement Equalizer shank from hitchsource.com and they have pretty good prices, I believe mine (6" drop) was just over $100 + shipping. I believe the total ended up between 130-140. Tows better now that it is level.

Tom
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbwill View Post
I purchased a replacement Equalizer shank from hitchsource.com and they have pretty good prices, I believe mine (6" drop) was just over $100 + shipping. I believe the total ended up between 130-140. Tows better now that it is level.

Tom
Thanks Tom, I will check the price there. Maybe I can sell the 6" once I have the 9".

I'm ever so slightly up and although I have no issues towing, I'd feel better with it level or slight down. Just like things to be "correct" from every angle.

Mark
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