Ram I6 Cummins Diesels Feedback

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by jetlag

For what it's worth, I just got hosed by the dealer, A good friend, with a fleet of Ram trucks, laughed when i told him and we agreed next oil change I will bring it to his shop with a few beers to do the job on his lift. He said we can buy the oil and all the filters for around $150. Lesson learned.

12 qts of synthetic or semi synthetic oil plus one oil filter and two fuel filters for $150 bucks?
Please let me know where you can get 12 qts of oil and 3 filters for anywhere NEAR that price.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

12 qts of synthetic or semi synthetic oil plus one oil filter and two fuel filters for $150 bucks?
Please let me know where you can get 12 qts of oil and 3 filters for anywhere NEAR that price.

He may have a source since he buys for 15-20 trucks. Either way, it would be way less than $600

[Mad5581]

Originally Posted by Pickledill

Your locking at a different kbb than me. In most instances gassers retain a slightly higher % of msrp than diesels. Unless Iam suffering stroke symptoms?

I don't know what kbb your looking at. I do know you have to put a zip code in to get numbers and in your market what you say may be true. In the market I'm in its not. Kbb is supposed to track individual market trends in individual markets. In most of the markets I've looked at diesels hold their value way better. There are exceptions. I know TX is one of them. In TX half tons and 3/4 ton gas hold value better. A big factor in that is most of the 1 tons srw even have a higher GVW to where you need to get a non commercial CDL to actually use them. That changes demand. I know AZ is another odd ball that 3/4 tons tend to hold value better then 1 tons because of licensing restrictions, and registration requirements. In OR where I am we don't have the licensing and registration issues we can buy and on for private use trucks with gvwr's upto 26k lbs. So bigger 1 ton diesels tend to keep value way better. I have a friend that just sold his 2001 ram with the cummins and 250k miles for $17k and the guy was excited to pay that for it. This truck was a bit rough looking too.

[Peoples16127]

I believe that one size does not fit all when it comes to trucks, what works for you may not work or make sense for me.

I personally do not overly concern myself with resale value, I keep my trucks for 8 to 10 years, so resale is not a big factor to me. In 10 years vehicles in Pennsylvania normally have rust issues, this is usually why I replace them. Besides how would anyone predict resale 10 years in the future?

Purchase price and operating cost is a factor to me, today's diesels have much higher oil change, fuel cost and initial purchase price than a gas. The increased fuel economy will not offset these costs.

Power is the biggest advantage a turbocharged diesel has, especially at higher altitudes. If your particular application needs all of the power you can get, then a diesel is the way to go. If you need as much as you can get, maybe you should consider a heavy duty truck, where you could get 500 or more horsepower.

I currently own a Ram 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins and although I enjoy the truck it would have been more economical to have bought a gasoline engine. I also have a very low opinion of emissions systems on today's diesel trucks, I personally know dozens of late model diesel trucks that were deleted because of issues with the emissions systems. I had a similar opinion of gasoline vehicles in the 70s and 80s, the emissions systems caused reduced power, reduced fuel economy and increased breakdowns over non-emissions engines. Fortunately today's gasoline engines are much improved compared to the 70s and 80s. Until the diesel emissions equipment reaches the same level of reliability as today's gasoline engines, I will have a hard time recommending a diesel engine to my friends.

Again one size does not fit all.

[Pickledill]

Peoples16127: well said. Sometimes there is a bit of confusion by some regarding residual value and cost to buy in the used market. I also understand that wanting something as opposed to needing something. Nothing wrong with wanting a diesel, for the majority that is the motivator. I just tire of hearing the economic advantages argument some put forth to justify their decision. In 2022 its just not a defendable position nor has it been for a number of years. Its as cool to have a diesel truck to primarily commute in as it is to do so in a sports car just not the most economical choice for the job. No need to defend it as a smart money move.

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by Pickledill

Peoples16127: well said. Sometimes there is a bit of confusion by some regarding residual value and cost to buy in the used market. I also understand that wanting something as opposed to needing something. Nothing wrong with wanting a diesel, for the majority that is the motivator. I just tire of hearing the economic advantages argument some put forth to justify their decision. In 2022 its just not a defendable position nor has it been for a number of years. Its as cool to have a diesel truck to primarily commute in as it is to do so in a sports car just not the most economical choice for the job. No need to defend it as a smart money move.

1. I've seen no one that's justifying it as a "smart money move".

2. "Nothing wrong with wanting a diesel, for the majority that is the motivator."
Unless you are a mind reader, you have no idea why people buy diesels.

3. How would you possibly know that folks are buying diesels "primarily to commute in"?

4. "not the most economical for the job". Whose job? Yours or mine?

Sounds like a classic case of diesel envy. Why would anyone care what anyone's tow vehicle is? BTW, when I retired I bought this diesel from my company. 38000 hard miles on it, all bugs worked out. I've bought several trucks from my company, 2 Duramaxes and 1 Powerstroke. All good trucks.

[goducks]

Originally Posted by Pickledill

Peoples16127: well said. Sometimes there is a bit of confusion by some regarding residual value and cost to buy in the used market. I also understand that wanting something as opposed to needing something. Nothing wrong with wanting a diesel, for the majority that is the motivator. I just tire of hearing the economic advantages argument some put forth to justify their decision. In 2022 its just not a defendable position nor has it been for a number of years. Its as cool to have a diesel truck to primarily commute in as it is to do so in a sports car just not the most economical choice for the job. No need to defend it as a smart money move.

Like I mentioned before why does one need to recoup the cost of a diesel?
I bought a Big Horn so I guess I can ask the same question of a guy that bought a loaded to the gills Limited.

[Pickledill]

Those that bring up how much they "recoup" at resale.If you aren't commercial you probably use it more for pleasure. There are exceptions ro every rule. I think iI tow a lot but only about 26% of total miles. Yea I have diesel envy- I have gone through my life wanting a diesel truck but just can't afford it so I justify my gas purchase on economics. So I can waste money on my wants. RV - investment property- sports car- etc.Never said there was anything wrong with getting what you want. Have a great day and enjoy your diesel ��.

[Midnightmoon]

Moderator's Note:

Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is to provide information specifically about a Ram Cummins diesel truck as asked by the OP. Let's try to keep the thread moving in that direction.

Midnightmoon

Site-Team

[Mad5581]

My point was in some areas and some markets diesels can recoup some if not all of the extra expense. In the west where I'm at if you buy an rv over 12k lbs a gas motor won't cut it. With 6000+ foot high hills and 11000 foot mt passes you will destroy a gas engine in no time. So yes there is a purpose for both really. Now if your rocking a 6500 lb travel trailer gas is plenty adequate. If you never pull anything definitely don't buy a diesel it will cost you more then it's worth. Now yes gas motors have come a long long way in power and reliability. They still have insane maintenance costs but it's closer to 100k miles for a gas engine vs a diesel you just have fluids and filters there is not $1500 bill at 100k for plugs, wires, coil packs.

Honestly I only plan to keep my trucks for 6 to 8 years so resale is extremely important to me. In 8 years I don't want my $60k truck to be worth $12k I would rather my $70k truck be worth $30 or $40k. My brother in-law just got an 8 year old ram 2500 gaser with 130k miles for $15k my best friend just got a 9 year old ram 2500 diesel with 190k miles for 22k both are considering good deals here. Biggest deal out west is a used diesel will sell for 10 to 20% over top kbb vs a gaser will sell for about 5% over kbb.

Now yes I agree if you are only looking at numbers today not tomorrow then a gas is definitely the way to go as long as it can pull what you plan to pull. If you look at long term and plan to use your truck for "truck stuff" then a diesel may be a better option and depending on its use can actually pencil out to be more economical cost wise. Grocery getter, commuter and occasionally pulling a small or medium size rv your 100% correct a diesel will never pencil out.

Now reliability of modern diesels in my experience is almost always user error. If you don't understand how it works and how to use it it will definitely let you down. Most common complaints I hear about are SRC, DEF issues. User error almost always. First off never trun off you diesel during a regen. Never add DEF unless your truck tells you to. And #1 DEF expires, freezes and will corrode relatively quickly. Alway use the freshest DEF you can get. I use it at the pump of my local truck stop about the freshest you can get. I never add unless the truck tells me to. And I will pump it out if my truck if its gonna sit for more then a month. Normally I put DEF in about every other month to 3 months at most. I have 56k on my duramax and have had zero issues. I have 535k on my work freightliner and only issues I've has was one time in the middle of winter my DEF line heater failed and was replaced and no more issues. Again learn how to use it right and you will likely have many trouble free miles.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by crockettlarry

I have read that front end components, i.e., suspension, wear prematurely on Dodge and Ram trucks. What have you long timers experienced?

Ram redesigned the front end around 2013 or 2014 ish. The new design is much better on the front suspension. I currently have 71K miles, everything is stock (except tires) with no issues.

One big concern with diesels is the emissions crap. On our last trip we were 800 miles from home and got the dreaded DEF pump diagnostic code. $2818 to get the pump replaced. If I had been at home, it would have been $600 to rip all that stuff off and put a tuner on. It was a brutal end to an otherwise delightful trip.

Despite that cost, I still like the diesel. Towing, especially in the mountains, is so much better. That diesel just purrs along at 1700 rpm up the mountain, and the exhaust brake putters down the other side without requiring any service brakes. It is awesome...

[Pickledill]

Disagree on insane maintenance cost. Further I tow a 12k fiver with gas and have done 15k plus miles including multiple ascents of the rockies. Diesel would do those pulls better, fortunately that is less than 1% of total miles driven. Time will tell if a post emmission diesel will get significantly more service life/ reliability than a gasser. Time horizon for post def diesels is relatively short and issues have been well documented. Don't be too quick to ascribe pre- def diesel characteristics to post def engines.Keep in mind you can repower a gasser for roughly the same $ as diesel injectors replacement. The origjnal poster seemed to be interested in being talked into or out of a diesel purchase. Based on what he described he was considering towing, either would be appropriate. And in his words 12k buys aot of gas .

[Peoples16127]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

1. I've seen no one that's justifying it as a "smart money move".

2. "Nothing wrong with wanting a diesel, for the majority that is the motivator."
Unless you are a mind reader, you have no idea why people buy diesels.

3. How would you possibly know that folks are buying diesels "primarily to commute in"?

4. "not the most economical for the job". Whose job? Yours or mine?

Sounds like a classic case of diesel envy. Why would anyone care what anyone's tow vehicle is? BTW, when I retired I bought this diesel from my company. 38000 hard miles on it, all bugs worked out. I've bought several trucks from my company, 2 Duramaxes and 1 Powerstroke. All good trucks.

What year are the trucks you referenced and how many miles do they have?

Have any of them had issues with the emissions equipment?

I did not say that any of them were bad trucks, I only said they all need to make big strides in the reliability of the emissions equipment before I would recommend a diesel to my friends based on my experience.

[Mad5581]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

Moderator's Note:

Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is to provide information specifically about a Ram Cummins diesel truck as asked by the OP. Let's try to keep the thread moving in that direction.

Midnightmoon

Site-Team

My final word... don't buy a gas ram buy a cummins. The commins in my personal experience and opinion is the best motor ram offers not just by a little but by a long shot. The 6.4 hemi is an OK motor at best. The 6.7 cummins is a great motor on a bad day. The older 5.7 hemi didn't pass many gas stations but would run forever and were a reasonably good work horse. Everyone I know that has had a 6.4 in a truck loved them until they pulled with them. On the other hand I don't know if I've ever heard anyone that has owned a cummins complain about it. Some have had premature failures but the largest majority have had zero issues.

If you really want to stay with gas I would recommend you take a closer look at the 7.3 Ford gasser. I know a few guys that have them and absolutely love them. Some of the earlier builds had a few issues but I am pretty sure they have worked the bugs out.

I had a 2018 6.4 hemi in a work truck for 7 months and you couldn't give me one. I purchased 17 of them for my company and sold 12 of them in 7 month. because they spent More time in the shop the on the road. I kept the other 5 because they seemed to be okay. I am updating my fleet with cummins and duramax. Mostly cummins because they are a bit more of a commercial design. My mechanics reference them as baby cummins. We have 2 yard goats for moving trailers both have the 6.7 commins and they get the snot beat out of them and just keep going. I own a fleet of 33 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I also have 71 freightliners. I see the repair bills.. and yes most the work was under warranty but warranty won't get you home when your truck dies on you.

[Pickledill]

I can agree that if you go gas Ram is the 3rd option.

[Jagiven]

The truck we had considered, but lost due to not wanting to travel due to the weather. Has been listed as "sale pending" for 3 weeks. I spoke to the dealer over a week ago, and they said they were waiting on the trade in title. This afternoon sometime after lunch the status changed to "for sale".

Plan to head out to look at tomorrow. Hopefully it will be coming home with us.

[Bandit12]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

The truck we had considered, but lost due to not wanting to travel due to the weather. Has been listed as "sale pending" for 3 weeks. I spoke to the dealer over a week ago, and they said they were waiting on the trade in title. This afternoon sometime after lunch the status changed to "for sale".

Plan to head out to look at tomorrow. Hopefully it will be coming home with us.

Best of luck on your search. I can tell you I bought my Ram 2500 with the Cummins, not to pull the 2018 X23B we had at the time, but the trailer I might purchase after the Jayco. As luck would have it, the summer after I bought the Ram, I stumbled onto a deal on a brand new Keystone Cougar Half Ton. The Ram didn't even know the X23B was back there. With the Cougar, it knows the trailer is back there, it simply does not care.

[Bandit12]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

12 qts of synthetic or semi synthetic oil plus one oil filter and two fuel filters for $150 bucks?
Please let me know where you can get 12 qts of oil and 3 filters for anywhere NEAR that price.

I'd like to know that as well! I work for a nationally known auto parts company. To purchase 3 gals of Valvoline oil, 1 oil filter, and both fuel filters for a cash walk in the door customer, the total for that comes to just over $325. Even with employee discount, its still about $215.

[cadman_ks]

Originally Posted by Bandit12

... The Ram didn't even know the X23B was back there. With the Cougar, it knows the trailer is back there, it simply does not care.

This is a GREAT comment about diesels in general, and pretty much sums up the power that diesel engines have...

[curver900]

As long as you remember that whatever you buy is an expense. Even during these times you will still loose value and at the end of the day you get no money back... it is all lost... it cost money for everything from tires, fuel, wiper blades, insurance, etc... and the big one depreciation. At some point 100k, 200k, 300k miles whatever the number it will be nothing but a large paper weight...

Anyone who thinks a vehicle is a investment got the wrong memo... the times right now will change at some point and there will be many holding a bag... HD did it back in the late 90's with motorcycles... I know many who got to hold the bag when it all went south... some made bank though because they were smart enough to get in and then back out before the collapse...

Enjoy that Cummins it sure sounds nice and has lots of power and won't disappoint, i don't think any of the big 3 big blocks will disappoint.. there are issues with all of them... but the last generation sure seems to be the least problematic... as long as the epa doesn't change the game, diesels will be more reliable... even with all the crud packed on...

Also the new gas motors need a little more time to work out the kinks but they have been pretty good so far...lots of good performance....