RAV4 6 cyl as TV

[rosen_keh]

Hi there,

We have a RAV4 6 cyl with tow package rated for towing #3,500. We would like to buy the SLX 184Bh model which comes at about #2,700 UVW. I understand that this is getting pretty close to the max towing capacity which worries me a bit.

I did some research and the Toyota Highlander 4WD 4dr V6 SE is rated to tow #5,000. However, it has very similar if not the same engine as my RAV4:
----------------------------
Highlander:
Engine Type : Gas V6
Fuel System : EFI
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM : 270 @ 6200
SAE Net Torque @ RPM : 248 @ 4700
Trans Order Code
Trans Type : 5
Trans Description Cont. : Automatic
Trans Description Cont. Again
First Gear Ratio (:1) : 4.24
Second Gear Ratio (:1) : 2.36
Third Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.52
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.05
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) : 0.76
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1)
Reverse Ratio (:1) : 3.38
Clutch Size (in)
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) : 3.48
Total Cooling System Capacity (qts) : 9.9
Suspension Type - Front : Independent
Suspension Type - Rear : Independent
Suspension Type - Front (Cont.)
Suspension Type - Rear (Cont.)
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Front (in) : 1.02
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Rear (in) : 0.55
-----------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------------
RAV4:
Engine Type : Gas V6
Displacement : 3.5L/211
Fuel System : SFI
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM : 269 @ 6200
SAE Net Torque @ RPM : 246 @ 4700
Trans Order Code
Trans Type : 5
Trans Description Cont. : Automatic w/OD
Trans Description Cont. Again
First Gear Ratio (:1) : 4.24
Second Gear Ratio (:1) : 2.36
Third Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.52
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.05
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) : 0.76
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1)
Reverse Ratio (:1) : 3.38
Clutch Size (in)
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) : 3.08
Total Cooling System Capacity (qts) : 9.6
Suspension Type - Front : MacPherson strut
Suspension Type - Rear : Double-wishbone
Suspension Type - Front (Cont.) : Sport-tuned
Suspension Type - Rear (Cont.) : Sport-tuned
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Front (in) : 1.00
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Rear (in) : 0.87
------------------------------------

I know the Highlander is heavier than the RAV4 which should mean that its axle weight must be rated higher.

How come the Highlander can pull more with the same engine?

Any input is appreciated.

Thank you.

Rosen

[David472]

The final drive ratio is a fair part of the reason.
Rav-4 is 3:08
Highlander is 3:48
The other part would be chassis construction. Rav-4 is a uni-body construction, and the Highlander has a separate frame, as I recall.

[bertscampers]

We just looked at the highlander and it is also uni-body construction. The other problem with the highlander is that in the owners manual it says not to drive faster then 45 mph when towing. So I asked if I did would it void the warranty and they could not give me an answer. Check the owners manual.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[clutch]

The Toyota may also have bigger brakes. You will also find that Honda is VERY conservative. They are afraid of law suits. I believe the three wheelers made them that way.

[David472]

Note -- Rav-4 and Highlander are both Toyota.
Rav-4 is built near here at Woodstock Ontario.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by rosen_keh

snip........We have a RAV4 6 cyl with tow package rated for towing #3,500. We would like to buy the SLX 184Bh model which comes at about #2,700 UVW. I understand that this is getting pretty close to the max towing capacity which worries me a bit......snip

Rosen,

IMO you will be over your TV limits, and you won't be at all happy with the tow. Your correct that the 184BH has a UVW of 2,700lbs, but the actual ship weight will be a little higher. If the RV dealer has one on his lot look for the ship weight sticker, but I would assume another 150lbs (2,850lb ship weight, maybe a little less). The GVWR of the 184BH is 3,500lbs which doesn't leave much for dealer options (hitch, battery, etc.), camping cargo, minimal fluids, and "stuff". IMO a loaded weight of 3,350lbs is very realistic.

Please note that Automotive Manufactures base their Tow Ratings on the "CURB WEIGHT" of the base model in question which only includes a 150lb driver and a full tank of fuel. The weight of the TV's options, passengers, and cargo must be "SUBTRACTED" from the specified tow rating.

The RAV4 6 cyl with tow package rated for towing 3,500lbs I think would be better suited for a small pop-up camper.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob

[clutch]

David, you are correct. I was thinking about the Honda Pilot.

[David472]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

snip.....The RAV4 6 cyl with tow package rated for towing 3,500lbs I think would be better suited for a small pop-up camper.....snip

I agree.
The Rav-4 is classed as a small SUV, with a very short wheel base.
Myself, I would not tow more than 2,000 lbs with it.

[Seann45]

I would not tow anything with a Rav4 its wheel base is just too short..

[bender031177]

There are lots of opinions from people, who are well intentioned, but have no experience towing with a smaller SUV. I am picking my 184BH up tomorrow morning and I have a Mitsubishi Outlander XLS (V6). It actually has less power than your Rav-4 so I am confident you will be ok.

I asked my service department about the tow rating and they assured me that the tow ratings are conservative, if anything, because they want to avoid replacing transmissions and engines.

There is a Canadian RV Magazine called RV Lifestyle that I subscribe to. It has a "Hitch Hints" section that is very informative. I wrote the magazine to make sure my TV/TT combination is ok. He did say I needed a good WD hitch and brake controller but said my Outlander is an excellent choice of tow vehicle.

After I pick mine up in Newport NH in the morning I am driving to the New Brunswick, Maine border for the night. That will give me 6 hours driving experience and I will be glad to let you know how it goes.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by bender031177

There are lots of opinions from people, who are well intentioned, but have no experience towing with a smaller SUV.

Bender,

With all do respect, I wouldn't rush to judgment based on a member's "present" signature stats, some of us started out towing with smaller SUV's, etc., I know I did.

Originally Posted by bender031177

snip.......I asked my service department about the tow rating and they assured me that the tow ratings are conservative, if anything, because they want to avoid replacing transmissions and engines.

I've run into that statement over the years as well, but I would never advise (or imply) anyone that it's ok to tow over the manufacturer's specified weight limits (Tow Rating, GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, etc.) of any TV, small or large SUV/Truck. What is the quantitative value of "conservative" in this context anyway? When a service department states that tow ratings are conservative, IMO they are just creating job security.

I agree that a manufacture "may" build in a little wiggle room within their weight specifications...., I just wouldn't want to be the beta test to find out how little was actually put in .

Originally Posted by bender031177

He did say I needed a good WD hitch and brake controller but said my Outlander is an excellent choice of tow vehicle.

Take a close look at your Outlander's receiver rating sticker, many of the receivers for small SUV's are not rated for use under weight distribution conditions, only weight carrying.

Originally Posted by bender031177

snip.....After I pick mine up in Newport NH in the morning I am driving to the New Brunswick, Maine border for the night. That will give me 6 hours driving experience and I will be glad to let you know how it goes.

It will be good information based on your TV/TT combo...., but once you are towing under loaded conditions in less than desirable road/weather conditions this will also be valuable feedback as well, and please update this thread at that time.

I think there's value in presenting to someone that's just getting into towing what the manufacturer's specified weight limits mean, and how they apply to their specific TV/TT combination. Once they understand this, if an individual elects to exceed a given weight limit, well, that's their choice.

Don't get me wrong, I like the "newer" small SUV's, and my brother has owned nothing but. I've been tossing the idea around about getting one as a daily driver, and use for my bicycle trips.

Bob

[29BHS ECO]

Nobodys mentioned DRAG, the killer of all tv's, the lower the power the faster the death!!!!!!!!!!! Larry

[bertscampers]

I was told I could tow a 17z with my minivan. I bought my trailer in April. I bought a new vehicle in June to replace my minivan. My neighbour pulls the same trailer with his mini-van and is fine. I just was not comfortable. So can you do it. Yes. But its what you are comfortable with. I kept ignoring advice thinking I would be fine and in the end the entire experience cost me a lot more because I got little trade in for the mini van.

My two cents.

Cheers

[David472]

In defense of bender031177;
The Canadian RV magazine columnist you refer to is probably Andy from CanAm RV. I first met Andy circa 1982. We were both recently out of college, and he had just taken over the reins at the local Airstream dealership. This was a time when the automakers were rapidly changing their cars from V8 rear wheel drive, over to smaller front wheel drive with uni-body construction. Andy set about to find real world towing combinations that worked well together. He was, and is very successful at this. I have TOTAL FAITH in his judgment on what towing combinations will work. One thing to keep in mind, Andy’s focus is on TT’s which are more aerodynamic that most, such as Airstream and a couple other brands. As one other post here referred to, the aerodynamic drag of the typical square box TT, is a big stumbling block to over come. If you ever happen to meet Andy at an RV show, he will proudly show you his scale model complete with fan and ribbon streamers, to demonstrate the effect TT shape has on drag.

[bertscampers]

I met Andy and he is a great guy and knows what he is talking about.

[Big Jim]

Just because you can buy a hitch for it, doesn't mean you should be pulling a trailer with it.
I see many vehicles that are NO business pulling any sort of trailer behind it.
The Highlander is larger, the RAV4 is a toy, good for being towed, but not for towing....
I'd be really leery of either!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by David472

In defense of bender031177;
The Canadian RV magazine columnist you refer to is probably Andy from CanAm RV.....snip

David,

I have never met Andy Thomson, but have ran across and read a number of his articles over the years, and his name pops up once in awhile over on the AIR forum.

The one thing that I have gleamed from his articles is that he seems to work with real numbers (manufacture specifications, loads, limits, etc.), hands-on experience, and has a broad knowledge base. I would also believe when he "blesses" a given TV/TT combination he does so with the understanding that the correct TV receiver (one of his favorite topics), TV WDH spec limits, WDH rating, and general TV/TT weight limits are taken into consideration.

I concur with Andy Thomson's approach to insuring one has a safe TV/TT combination...., as represented in his following statement:

"A class 2 hitch is generally rated for 350 lbs. of hitch weight and 3500 lbs. of total weight; however they have a small receiver tube and will not accept an equalizing hitch. Even if they could be outfitted with a load equalizing device, they would not withstand the torque that the equalizing hitch exerts. "

Quote was taken from the following article: http://www.canamrv.ca/~canamrvc/hitch-hints/hh-37-2/

I don't believe Andy would recommend towing a loaded TT that exceeds the TV's specified (and/or actual) towing weight limits even though an up-graded TV receiver can accommodate the TT loaded weight.

Bob

[David472]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

David,

I have never met Andy Thomson, but have ran across and read a number of his articles over the years, and his name pops up once in awhile over on the AIR forum.

The one thing that I have gleamed from his articles is that he seems to work with real numbers (manufacture specifications, loads, limits, etc.), hands-on experience, and has a broad knowledge base. I would also believe when he "blesses" a given TV/TT combination he does so with the understanding that the correct TV receiver (one of his favorite topics), TV WDH spec limits, WDH rating, and general TV/TT weight limits are taken into consideration.

I concur with Andy Thomson's approach to insuring one has a safe TV/TT combination...., as represented in his following statement:

"A class 2 hitch is generally rated for 350 lbs. of hitch weight and 3500 lbs. of total weight; however they have a small receiver tube and will not accept an equalizing hitch. Even if they could be outfitted with a load equalizing device, they would not withstand the torque that the equalizing hitch exerts. "

Quote was taken from the following article: http://www.canamrv.ca/~canamrvc/hitch-hints/hh-37-2/

I don't believe Andy would recommend towing a loaded TT that exceeds the TV's specified (and/or actual) towing weight limits even though an up-graded TV receiver can accommodate the TT loaded weight.

Bob

Bob,

Yes, I agree with all your comments on this thread and other towing topics. If Andy had given a positive review on a TV-TT combination, then it would be a safe combination. The original post regarding the Rav-4 towing that 2,700 lb UVW TT arrangement, I still think is not a safe combination. I'm willing to bet, Andy would have a similar view of that combination. The Highlander TV is a slightly different case, and I'm not familiar enough with that TV, but it seems to be slightly more beefy in construction. The original post was asking mostly why the two vehicles differed in ratings. Perhaps collectively we answered that question, and in the process we raised other questions.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by David472

snip......and in the process we raised other questions.

David,

It never fails...., we always do!

Bob

[Seann45]

Bender if you were meaning me.. I towed a tent trailer with a Mazda 6 and a 25' Aero lite with a ford Ranger..

I have read Andy's columns for years and enjoy them.. but the one thing he has never addressed is if insurance will cover you in an accident with one of his setups... remember they love to find ways out of paying a claim.